Vice Presidential Debate

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-08-2020, 02:37 PM)hollodero Wrote: Don't know about ADHD, but I wonder why mild autism or aspergers would be reason not to admit someone to Air Force or anything really. 

Do you really want to have a communication problem with someone with a loaded weapon?

[GMDino]

(10-08-2020, 02:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: What's wrong with someone being angry at being interrupted? 

(10-08-2020, 02:51 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You sure about that? Trump's looks are never criticized? He's never referred to as 'orange'? People don't make fun of his weight? Or his hair?

Have we reached the point were we say racism doesn't exist anymore because of one example? 

I said not everyone acts that way.  There are always exceptions.  But denial ain't just a river I guess.

[*PhilHos*]

Forgot to mention this earlier, but one thing I gleaned from the VP debate is this: I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hope that if Biden is elected, he's able to serve a full 4 years.

[hollodero]

(10-08-2020, 03:14 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Do you really want to have a communication problem with someone with a loaded weapon?

Well, no. But imho that concern only would come to play at a more Rain Man level of autism. Many people have a mild form of autism though, and they usually are perfectly capable of communicating in a professional setting. They don't throw fits or start doing irrational things just because of this. Peope with ASD or let's say milder Aspergers are found in (well, probably almost) all professions and they are usually not hindered much, if at all.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-08-2020, 03:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, no. But imho that concern only would come to play at a more Rain Man level of autism. Many people have a mild form of autism though, and they usually are perfectly capable of communicating in a professional setting. They don't throw fits or start doing irrational things just because of this. Peope with ASD or let's say milder Aspergers are found in (well, probably almost) all professions and they are usually not hindered much, if at all.

Would a professional setting include a foreign country where you don’t speak the language so verbal communication is limited, enemy combatants don’t wear uniforms to identify themselves, and kids and pregnant women are rigged with explosives as human borne IEDS? Or you need to figure out the intent of a driver without the benefit of body language or other nonverbal communication? Is the driver trying to kill you with a bomb? Or a scared and confused civilian who took a wrong turn? Do you cap that military age male talking on a cellphone on a rooftop because he is calling in your position or just a guy on a cellphone in the wrong place at the wrong time?

[hollodero]

(10-08-2020, 04:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Would a professional setting include a foreign country where you don’t speak the language so verbal communication is limited, enemy combatants don’t wear uniforms to identify themselves, and kids and pregnant women are rigged with explosives as human borne IEDS? Or you need to figure out the intent of a driver without the benefit of body language or other nonverbal communication? Is the driver trying to kill you with a bomb? Or a scared and confused civilian who took a wrong turn?  Do you cap that military age male talking on a cellphone on a rooftop because he is calling in your position or just a guy on a cellphone in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Yeah, this I can't answer for certain. In general, I'd assume that the risks of misunderstandings due to cultural differences outweigh the risks of someone with a mild form of Aspergers totally misreading an otherwise obvious situation. But I'm not versed enough in that to say for certain, and I don't know if people that are thrown into potentially extremely sensitive situations have to go through heightened levels of vetting. I just figured that the people who admitted Mickey would be. 

Of course I am not talking about more severe cases of autism. But the mild ones might not have that much of an impact in general. Not to be snarky, but the US would hand someone with mild Aspergers all kinds of guns for private use without any questions asked, so I wouldn't see the need to exclude them from the military for good. Certain assignments, maybe. I might see it too naively, but flying a plane or serving on an air carrier should be very well possible for people with mild ASD.

I have to leave it at that though, for I lose my footing in this. I guess Mickey could carry it on if he wishes to.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-08-2020, 04:23 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah, this I can't answer for certain. In general, I'd assume that the risks of misunderstandings due to cultural differences outweigh the risks of someone with a mild form of Aspergers totally misreading an otherwise obvious situation. But I'm not versed enough in that to say for certain, and I don't know if people that are thrown into potentially extremely sensitive situations have to go through heightened levels of vetting. I just figured that the people who admitted Mickey would be. 

Of course I am not talking about more severe cases of autism. But the mild ones might not have that much of an impact in general. Not to be snarky, but the US would hand someone with mild Aspergers all kinds of guns for private use without any questions asked, so I wouldn't see the need to exclude them from the military for good. Certain assignments, maybe. I might see it too naively, but flying a plane or serving on an air carrier should be very well possible for people with mild ASD.

I have to leave it at that though, for I lose my footing in this. I guess Mickey could carry it on if he wishes to.

Mild cases aren’t necessarily disqualifying, but usual involve an evaluation by a specialist. When you have two neurocognitive disorders it complicates the evaluation. And no two cases of autism are the same.

Also, you think these situations are obvious, but it’s called the fog of war due to the inherent uncertainty. You can’t even trust the people you think you can trust because you can never be sure when they will betray you for a better deal or to keep their family safe unless they’ve got the same shoulder patch you’ve got.

[Millhouse]

(10-08-2020, 03:18 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Forgot to mention this earlier, but one thing I gleaned from the VP debate is this: I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hope that if Biden is elected, he's able to serve a full 4 years.

I agree. I am no fan of Harris at all, but even less of a fan of Trump in the grand scheme of things.

As I have said before, Im voting for Biden and hoping the Repubs hold on to the Senate to keep thing balanced.

[Luvnit2]

(10-07-2020, 10:32 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Pence commenting on how great Trump's free healthcare was as the administration fights against the ACA without offering a plan after 4 years is pretty tone deaf.

I don't get why Democrats care less about the constitution when it comes to the ACA or saying they will pack the courts?

The reality is if the ACA is overturned, it will be because once the individual mandate was removed, it became unconstitutional. Why did Pelosi spend the last 2 years with control of the house trying to impeach Trump versus fixing the ACA which appears to not be constitutional. 

If conservative judges were going to vote as a block, the addition of Amy Coney Barrett would have no bearing on the vote, it is 5-3 now. Roberts argued for it only because of the individual mandate and that has been removed so even Roberts has no argument now if he follows the constitution.

Blame Obama and Biden and Pelosi if the SC removes it, they were the ones the put it into law.

As for the ACA, it was and is horrible. $5000 to $10,000 family deductibles now versus $1000 to $2000. We lost our doctors, it increased in the Obama years versus saving each family $2500, they paid an extra $4000.

How about blame Congress for once, they write the laws and Obama gave us a shitty health insurance program, not Trump.

[BmorePat87]

(10-08-2020, 06:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't get why Democrats care less about the constitution when it comes to the ACA or saying they will pack the courts?

The reality is if the ACA is overturned, it will be because once the individual mandate was removed, it became unconstitutional. Why did Pelosi spend the last 2 years with control of the house trying to impeach Trump versus fixing the ACA which appears to not be constitutional. 

If conservative judges were going to vote as a block, the addition of Amy Coney Barrett would have no bearing on the vote, it is 5-3 now. Roberts argued for it only because of the individual mandate and that has been removed so even Roberts has no argument now if he follows the constitution.

Blame Obama and Biden and Pelosi if the SC removes it, they were the ones the put it into law.

As for the ACA, it was and is horrible. $5000 to $10,000 family deductibles now versus $1000 to $2000. We lost our doctors, it increased in the Obama years versus saving each family $2500, they paid an extra $4000.

How about blame Congress for once, they write the laws and Obama gave us a shitty health insurance program, not Trump.

so no health care plan after 4 years?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-08-2020, 06:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't get why Democrats care less about the constitution when it comes to the ACA or saying they will pack the courts?

The reality is if the ACA is overturned, it will be because once the individual mandate was removed, it became unconstitutional. Why did Pelosi spend the last 2 years with control of the house trying to impeach Trump versus fixing the ACA which appears to not be constitutional. 

If conservative judges were going to vote as a block, the addition of Amy Coney Barrett would have no bearing on the vote, it is 5-3 now. Roberts argued for it only because of the individual mandate and that has been removed so even Roberts has no argument now if he follows the constitution.

Blame Obama and Biden and Pelosi if the SC removes it, they were the ones the put it into law.

As for the ACA, it was and is horrible. $5000 to $10,000 family deductibles now versus $1000 to $2000. We lost our doctors, it increased in the Obama years versus saving each family $2500, they paid an extra $4000.

How about blame Congress for once, they write the laws and Obama gave us a shitty health insurance program, not Trump.

You lost your doctor?

[BigPapaKain]

(10-08-2020, 05:14 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I agree. I am no fan of Harris at all, but even less of a fan of Trump in the grand scheme of things.

As I have said before, Im voting for Biden and hoping the Repubs hold on to the Senate to keep thing balanced.

Balanced meaning at least a couple more years of political deadlock due to partisan bullshit?

Sounds good.

[Dill]

(10-07-2020, 10:46 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Harris is avoiding questions, but she's doing a good job at pushing the narrative during those avoidances that'll help her campaign.

She had to know she would get the court packing question. 

That refusal to answer was a campaign decision, probably on the assumption it wouldn't hurt them.

[Dill]

(10-08-2020, 06:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't get why Democrats care less about the constitution when it comes to the ACA or saying they will pack the courts?

The reality is if the ACA is overturned, it will be because once the individual mandate was removed, it became unconstitutional. Why did Pelosi spend the last 2 years with control of the house trying to impeach Trump versus fixing the ACA which appears to not be constitutional. 

If conservative judges were going to vote as a block, the addition of Amy Coney Barrett would have no bearing on the vote, it is 5-3 now. Roberts argued for it only because of the individual mandate and that has been removed so even Roberts has no argument now if he follows the constitution.

Blame Obama and Biden and Pelosi if the SC removes it, they were the ones the put it into law.

As for the ACA, it was and is horrible. $5000 to $10,000 family deductibles now versus $1000 to $2000. We lost our doctors, it increased in the Obama years versus saving each family $2500, they paid an extra $4000.

How about blame Congress for once, they write the laws and Obama gave us a shitty health insurance program, not Trump.

Two people in my family who previously could not get affordable health care could thanks to Obamacare. Millions agree it was a good thing.

Sounds like it was bad for you. I wonder what the ration of winners to losers is with the ACA? 

What state are you in? 

[Dill]

(10-08-2020, 09:55 AM)GMDino Wrote: My biggest disappointment was Harris avoided some questions that she should/could have handled better:  Court packing, shutdown plans, etc.

I expect Pence to dodge them...he does Trump's bidding period.

On a personal level my friends on social media posting how Harris was "angry and aggressive" was disheartening.  A strong female just can't catch a break with the right.

I counted at least three times she wouldn't let him interrupt. 

I saw it. You saw it. Your friends saw it. 

But watch, next debate Democrats will be lecturing Trump on civility.

[Dill]

(10-08-2020, 01:23 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I don't think that is totally accurate.  I think Trump is an ass a lot of the time also.

To me Harris just has an unlikeable, snotty personality.  I believe that is one of the reasons why she didn't go far in the primaries.  Voters just didn't like her.  Nothing to do with being a woman.

Dems should have went with Gabbard.  Gabbard = much better personality and far more likeable than Harris.

Yow. I thought Gabbard looked plastic, uncomfortable and controlled, reeling off memorized chunks of "policy position." 

I am thinking especially of her Tucker Carlson interview.  A lot hotter than Warren, Klobachar and Harris, though.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-08-2020, 01:44 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Because Trump is such a bubbly happy go lucky be your friend type.

Just say what you mean when you say you don't like her personality but continue to make excuses for Trump's.

Whoa there buddy.  I have said Trump has a crappy personality and can be an ass a lot of the time.

I also said, today I believe, that Harris and Trump are duking it out for crappiest personality.

What the eff are you talking about just say what I mean?  I said exactly what I meant.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-08-2020, 03:05 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Throw in "uppity" to stick the landing on this master class of stereotyping. 

She definitely did not come off as uppity.

I observed how she acted and described what I saw.  Is there something wrong with that?

[Mickeypoo]

(10-08-2020, 02:15 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: How did you get into the Air Force with that history?

You would have to ask the recruiter.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-08-2020, 03:14 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Do you really want to have a communication problem with someone with a loaded weapon?

Apparently my mild autism and adhd, also mild, was not enough to keep me out of the USAF or from being granted a TS/SCI clearance or from being stationed at the Pentagon or from holding a part time job from 15 years old until a week before shipping out or from holding full-time employment in the IT field from the time I went into the USAF in 93' until present.