War in America

[Matt_Crimson]

Whenever an event like what happened in Charlottesville takes place, the media jumps to the topic of the long awaited race war that some believe will eventually happen. What do you think of this? You have "far left" this and "alt right" that. Do you think it is likely that America will be plunged into a race war, or perhaps something different like a war of political ideologies? How do you think this might happen?

Personally I don't believe a race war will happen. I believe we've become to diverse and intertwined as a nation for a real race war to take place. I think we're more likely to have a significant clash because of our political views more than racist uprising taking shape and causing a serious conflict.

[CKwi88]

(08-16-2017, 09:35 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Whenever an event like what happened in Charlottesville takes place, the media jumps to the topic of the long awaited race war that some believe will eventually happen. What do you think of this? You have "far left" this and "alt right" that. Do you think it is likely that America will be plunged into a race war, or perhaps something different like a war of political ideologies? How do you think this might happen?

Personally I don't believe a race war will happen. I believe we've become to diverse and intertwined as a nation for a real race war to take place. I think we're more likely to have a significant clash because of our political views more than racist uprising taking shape and causing a serious conflict.

Depends what you mean by an actual race war. Do you mean armies of whites and armies of non-whites duking it out? Then of course that will never happen. 

IMO, there is already a race war, always has been a race war, and probably always will be a race war. Sure, significant progress has been made, of that there can be no doubt. But to act as if we live in some "post-racism" world is at best naive, at worst ignorant. You could say that the events in Charlottesville were an inevitable pushback from a group that feels threatened by the consistent gains made in the "race war" that is already going on. Why else would they be chanting "You will not replace us"? 

The race war isn't always fought out in the open like what we saw happen over the weekend. It's mostly in the political realm, with already many cases of political parties using and abusing minorities for their own ends. 

[SunsetBengal]

Of course, I'm just joking.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Is it just me or is the reaction to Charlottesville way more intense than the reaction to the far left wacko who tried to murder a large amount of GOP congressmen?

[SunsetBengal]

(08-16-2017, 10:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is it just me or is the reaction to Charlottesville way more intense than the reaction to the far left wacko who tried to murder a large amount of GOP congressmen?

No, you are correct.  The MSM pretty much blew by that incident of domestic terrorism, like it was just a blip in the daily happenings.  Whereas, if there weren't a media lead up to the Charlottesville incident, there may have not even been a confrontation.  Ever notice how when we pay attention to certain activities, they seem to happen more frequently?  My philosophy is that if you ignore them (media), they will just dry up, and blow away.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-16-2017, 10:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No, you are correct.  The MSM pretty much blew by that incident of domestic terrorism, like it was just a blip in the daily happenings.  Whereas, if there weren't a media lead up to the Charlottesville incident, there may have not even been a confrontation.  Ever notice how when we pay attention to certain activities, they seem to happen more frequently?  My philosophy is that if you ignore them (media), they will just dry up, and blow away.

The death of that poor woman this weekend was tragic, it sucks and shouldn't have happened.  As I've said before, this incident did not occur in a vacuum.  We've been letting political violence at rallies go unchecked for over a year, a death was inevitable given our hands off approach as a nation.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-16-2017, 10:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is it just me or is the reaction to Charlottesville way more intense than the reaction to the far left wacko who tried to murder a large amount of GOP congressmen?

Maybe you just need a break from California for awhile?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-16-2017, 10:54 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Maybe you just need a break from California for awhile?

You're probably right about that.  I get your point, I certainly did not witness the reaction to that event that much of the country experienced.

[GMDino]

(08-16-2017, 10:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No, you are correct.  The MSM pretty much blew by that incident of domestic terrorism, like it was just a blip in the daily happenings.  Whereas, if there weren't a media lead up to the Charlottesville incident, there may have not even been a confrontation.  Ever notice how when we pay attention to certain activities, they seem to happen more frequently?  My philosophy is that if you ignore them (media), they will just dry up, and blow away.

Really?  I was on vacation that week.  My parents watch a lot (too much) politics on television and MSNBC was on all morning, every morning that that was what they covered the most.

I think there's some confirmation bias going on.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-16-2017, 10:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The death of that poor woman this weekend was tragic, it sucks and shouldn't have happened.  As I've said before, this incident did not occur in a vacuum.  We've been letting political violence at rallies go unchecked for over a year, a death was inevitable given our hands off approach as a nation.  

Yes, her death was tragic, indeed.  I did some reading on the guy who rammed the crowd.  Turns out, he was just some kid, with no direction.  Not even sure if he had any genuine affiliation, other than social media interaction, with any of the groups.  Turns out he told his Mom that he was going to some rally.  I seriously doubt that his action was any orchestrated part of any of the groups involved, but rather a voluntary action by an isolated individual.  That is the danger of these "groups".  This young, semi-orphaned young man, had no direction in his life, and clung to the first bunch of losers that accepted him.

[Millhouse]

(08-16-2017, 10:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is it just me or is the reaction to Charlottesville way more intense than the reaction to the far left wacko who tried to murder a large amount of GOP congressmen?

The reaction to this seeming more intense is largely due to Trump and his political ignorance speaking about the situation. 

[ballsofsteel]

(08-16-2017, 10:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is it just me or is the reaction to Charlottesville way more intense than the reaction to the far left wacko who tried to murder a large amount of GOP congressme

I think the reaction to Charlotteville was more intense the reason being you having the POTUS taking the Nazi's side and sticking up for them.

[GMDino]

(08-16-2017, 11:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, her death was tragic, indeed.  I did some reading on the guy who rammed the crowd.  Turns out, he was just some kid, with no direction.  Not even sure if he had any genuine affiliation, other than social media interaction, with any of the groups.  Turns out he told his Mom that he was going to some rally.  I seriously doubt that his action was any orchestrated part of any of the groups involved, but rather a voluntary action by an isolated individual.  That is the danger of these "groups".  This young, semi-orphaned young man, had no direction in his life, and clung to the first bunch of losers that accepted him.

So, rougue guy.  Just a nut case.  Nothing to see here.  No association with any larger group.

Man, you'd think the guy went on a shooting spree with that kind of defense.  

[*jason*]

(08-16-2017, 11:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, her death was tragic, indeed.  I did some reading on the guy who rammed the crowd.  Turns out, he was just some kid, with no direction.  Not even sure if he had any genuine affiliation, other than social media interaction, with any of the groups.  Turns out he told his Mom that he was going to some rally.  I seriously doubt that his action was any orchestrated part of any of the groups involved, but rather a voluntary action by an isolated individual.  That is the danger of these "groups".  This young, semi-orphaned young man, had no direction in his life, and clung to the first bunch of losers that accepted him.

That's really what terrorist types are. Do you think these dudes in Europe attacking with cars personally met Zarqawi or Al Bagdadi... No they are guys with nothing going on. They don't get laid, have few friends, and generally don't fit in.

I also think that the need to play dumb may kick in when your Nazi loving kid kills someone else's daughter.

[Benton]

(08-16-2017, 10:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is it just me or is the reaction to Charlottesville way more intense than the reaction to the far left wacko who tried to murder a large amount of GOP congressmen?

The issue, to me, is more reflective of how little people like politicians combined with how we respond to a whacko with a gun.

In the one, you've had years -- eight of them -- of a major network giving voice to anyone advocating dissension and violence against "leftists". And after a long history of not getting too worked up over a 'lone crazy with a gun' people are more comfortable with a guy resolving his problems by shooting someone.

In the other case, you've got hundreds involved directly, reflecting groups whose numbers are in the thousands. Combined with people dressing up as what's perceived as paramilitary, carrying firearms, throwing urine on people; protested against by people who have taken the mindset that it's ok to do whatever you want as long as you outnumber authorities. In between those two, a woman got killed. Not a skinhead trying to provoke, not a guy videoing himself smashing a car, just a woman trying to protest peacefully.

Murdering a young woman representing a cause is going to garner more attention than shooting a corrupt old man, generally.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(08-16-2017, 10:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is it just me or is the reaction to Charlottesville way more intense than the reaction to the far left wacko who tried to murder a large amount of GOP congressmen?

You're definitely right here.  But I don't think we saw very many people on the left defending this guys actions.  I think one of the reasons that the reaction to this is more intense is that a solid amount of people on the right (not just the far right) have taken a full defensive stand for this group of white supremacists.

[samhain]

I doubt that there will be a wholesale "race war" in the grand sense. I do believe political violence will ramp up significantly in the near future. Combining a toxic political climate with an uncertain and changing economic environment (many times for the worse with respect to the middle and lower classes) will provide the ideal hotbed for the rise of ethnic tribalism and commitment to radical causes.

IMO the best thing to do is try to steer young people in a direction where they feel like they have a future ahead of them with some meaning and success. Encourage military and public service. Do all that can be done at the high school level to point them in a direction where they feel more hopeful than cynical about what's ahead of them. That's a difficult thing to do when adults on both sides of the political spectrum do little more than paint our situation as the decline of civilization at every opportunity.

[Benton]

(08-17-2017, 10:12 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You're definitely right here.  But I don't think we saw very many people on the left defending this guys actions.  I think one of the reasons that the reaction to this is more intense is that a solid amount of people on the right (not just the far right) have taken a full defensive stand for this group of white supremacists.

Also a good distinction. 

I've been kind of surprised by the number of soccer moms saying "well, you can't lump all the white supremacists in with the Nazis" and the number of people complaining about monuments being taken down.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-17-2017, 10:12 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You're definitely right here.  But I don't think we saw very many people on the left defending this guys actions.  I think one of the reasons that the reaction to this is more intense is that a solid amount of people on the right (not just the far right) have taken a full defensive stand for this group of white supremacists.

Have they, though? At best, I've only seen people saying that they followed the letter of the law in holding a rally/protest and/or claim that BOTH sides are at fault for the violence that erupted between the two groups and I would not label that as defending them. Aside from that, I've seen condemnation of the KKK, white supremacists, and white people who haven't publicly condemned the aforementioned hate groups.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-17-2017, 10:47 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Have they, though? At best, I've only seen people saying that they followed the letter of the law in holding a rally/protest and/or claim that BOTH sides are at fault for the violence that erupted between the two groups and I would not label that as defending them. Aside from that, I've seen condemnation of the KKK, white supremacists, and white people who haven't publicly condemned the aforementioned hate groups.

Phil is right, I saw a lot of comments about how the GOP's policies had come home to roost.  Lots of people pondering if this would change their stance on gun control now that old white men were the victim.