West Point investigating cadets' fists-raised photo

[GMDino]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/05/09/west-point-investigating-cadets-fists-raised-photo/84129852/

Quote:West Point is investigating a photo that shows 16 black female cadets in uniform displaying raised fists outside a U.S. Military Academy barracks. 


The image has been shared widely in military circles, with claims the women are making a political statement, which would be a violation of military restrictions on political activity.

“We can confirm that the cadets in this photo are members of the U.S. Military Academy's Class of 2016,” said West Point’s director of public affairs Lt. Col. Christopher Kasker in an emailed statement. “Academy officials are conducting an inquiry into the matter."

The raised fist is a symbol associated with Black Lives Matter, although it’s been used for centuries to symbolize resistance by a number of groups, from labor unions to suffragists to socialists to the Black Panthers.

Army Times received the photo last Wednesday from several readers who are concerned the women violated Department of Defense Directive 1344.10, Political Activities by Members of the Armed Forces. The policy provides a list of political do's and don’ts for service members and cautions against "partisan political activity" when in uniform.


John Burk — a motivational coach, online firebrand and former soldier — criticized the image Wednesday via his fitness website In The Arena.


He said the women may run afoul a section of the policy that says troops may not “Display a partisan political sign, poster, banner, or similar device visible to the public at one’s residence on a military installation, even if that residence is part of a privatized housing development.”

His post on Facebook was shared more than 1,200 times, which helped to fuel speculation and raise concerns.

According to Brenda Sue Fulton, who chairs the U.S. Military Academy’s Board of Visitors, the controversial photo was just one of dozens of images the women took as part of a long-held West Point tradition.

The women were posing for an “Old Corps photo,” Fulton told Army Times, “a long-held tradition at the Academy.”
“Different teams and groups get together on their own to mimic the high-collar, ultra-serious, photos of 19th century cadets,” she explained of the tradition.
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ARMY TIMES

West Point leader defends female cadets in fist-raising photo

Fulton knows some of the women personally.

“When I spent time with these cadets and heard them tell their stories and laugh and joke with each other, there’s no doubt in my mind how much they love West Point, they love the Army and they support each other.”

But would Fulton, a former Army captain and long-time diversity advocate for the military, have tweeted the raised-fist photo?

“I would not have re-tweeted the raised-fist photo because I am well aware that our culture views a black fist very differently from a white fist,” she said. “I knew it was their expression of pride and unity, but I am old enough to know that it would be interpreted negatively by many white observers. Unfortunately, in their youth and exuberance, it appears they didn’t stop to think that it might have any political context, or any meaning other than their own feeling of triumph.”

Will the women face repercussions? 
The women may have run run afoul of West Point's [url=http://www.westpointaog.org/netcommunity/document.doc?id=621]Honor Code, or Department of Defense Directive 1344.10, Political Activities by Members of the Armed Forces, said Greg Greiner, a military law expert and partner at the Tully Rinckey law firm.

Even if the intent was not to make a political statement — for example, if "group think" set in or the cadets were just "messing around" —  they could still be in trouble, Greiner explained.

"My experience with military justice and the way discipline is handled, is that intent doesn’t always matter 100%," he said. "Sometimes the actions themselves are enough to bring discredit."

Under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, cadets could face charges of conduct unbecoming an officer, Greiner said. It depends on how much leadership felt "good order and discipline" had been violated, if at all.

"Leaders have a duty to say to themselves, do we want to create a problem for these young female officers that they're going to have for the rest of their careers?" he said.

[fredtoast]

Even if among this group the "raised fist" was not intended to be a political statement these ladies are smart enough to know exactly how the general public would treat it. It was a poor decision on their part to circulate it.

[fredtoast]

Trivia question.

Name the former Bengals in this photo.

[Rotobeast]

(05-09-2016, 12:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Trivia question.

Name the former Bengals in this photo.

Tommie Smith.

[JustWinBaby]

(05-09-2016, 12:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even if among this group the "raised fist" was not intended to be a political statement these ladies are smart enough to know exactly how the general public would treat it.  It was a poor decision on their part to circulate it.

Sure.  But could/should they be punished when it's not clear it was a political statement (as the article points out, it's been adopted by many groups to mean many things over the years)?

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2016, 05:42 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Tommie Smith.

Correct

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitTo01.htm

[*bfine32*]

(05-09-2016, 05:46 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Sure.  But could/should they be punished when it's not clear it was a political statement (as the article points out, it's been adopted by many groups to mean many things over the years)?

Should a bunch of southern white grads be punished if the posed with Confederate Flags?

[Belsnickel]

(05-09-2016, 07:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Should a bunch of southern white grads be punished if the posed with Confederate Flags?

Would they be? I have seen a lot of pictures of soldiers around a CSA battle flag. I know the military has this rule and these cadets should be investigated for this to find out what the purpose was, but the flag thing wouldn't get the same attention if they were just posing with it.

[*bfine32*]

(05-09-2016, 08:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Would they be? I have seen a lot of pictures of soldiers around a CSA battle flag. I know the military has this rule and these cadets should be investigated for this to find out what the purpose was, but the flag thing wouldn't get the same attention if they were just posing with it.

Would they? Who knows. Should they? Absolutely.

It would be one thing if a group of mixed cultures and races posed with the confederate flag; but if it were stickily white southeners, then they have made a political statement and disgraced the uniform. 

[GMDino]

(05-09-2016, 08:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Would they? Who knows. Should they? Absolutely.

It would be one thing if a group of mixed cultures and races posed with the confederate flag; but if it were stickily white southeners, then they have made a political statement and disgraced the uniform. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-09-2016, 08:32 PM)GMDino Wrote:

Folks have generally come to realize that you seldom makes a point; usually just post a meme, parrot what someone else said, or quote folks and insert a smiley face. But I must say, this meme makes absolutely no sense. Was there a point? I'm going to go with no; maybe someone else sees it. Help me out folks.

[Belsnickel]

(05-09-2016, 08:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Would they? Who knows. Should they? Absolutely.

It would be one thing if a group of mixed cultures and races posed with the confederate flag; but if it were stickily white southeners, then they have made a political statement and disgraced the uniform. 

I live in an area with a lot of the whole "southern pride" thing going on and some folks I went to school with served and they always had their battle flags. I knew about the rule but I never even thought about how it would be applied to them. I never heard of them facing any sort of reprimand. One of them had his cover photo as him sitting on an Abrams with his brown round on and his battle flag hanging from the barrel of the tank.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2016, 08:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  Was there a point? I'm going to go with no; maybe someone else sees it. Help me out folks.

The point was that you went out of your way to come up with an imaginary situation where white people suffer and minorities do not.

[GMDino]

(05-09-2016, 08:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks have generally come to realize that you seldom makes a point; usually just post a meme, parrot what someone else said, or quote folks and insert a smiley face. But I must say, this meme makes absolutely no sense. Was there a point? I'm going to go with no; maybe someone else sees it. Help me out folks.

Is that some "folks" or the "vast majority of the population including many from the scientific community" folks?



Anyway...

(05-09-2016, 08:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Would they? Who knows. Should they? Absolutely.

It would be one thing if a group of mixed cultures and races posed with the confederate flag; but if it were stickily white southeners, then they have made a political statement and disgraced the uniform. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-09-2016, 08:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I live in an area with a lot of the whole "southern pride" thing going on and some folks I went to school with served and they always had their battle flags. I knew about the rule but I never even thought about how it would be applied to them. I never heard of them facing any sort of reprimand. One of them had his cover photo as him sitting on an Abrams with his brown round on and his battle flag hanging from the barrel of the tank.

Well he should absolutely be reprimanded. Do whatever you want, just don't do it in the uniform that you swore to defend this country in. 

[GMDino]

(05-09-2016, 08:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The point was that you went out of your way to come up with an imaginary situation where white people suffer and minorities do not.

Careful, Larry will think I'm me and you're you again!

[*bfine32*]

(05-09-2016, 08:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The point was that you went out of your way to come up with an imaginary situation where white people suffer and minorities do not.

No Dino, I provided an anecdotal example to draw a correlation. I clearly showed my opinion is unchanged regardless of color or message. You guys are just set to default to racists bigot, that you saw something that wasn't there. 

[GMDino]

(05-09-2016, 09:01 PM)GMDino Wrote: Careful, Larry will think I'm me and you're you again!

(05-09-2016, 09:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No Dino,

See?

Anyway...in fantasy "I didn't say that land"

(05-09-2016, 09:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I provided an anecdotal example to draw a correlation. I clearly showed my opinion is unchanged regardless of color or message. You guys are just set to default to racists bigot, that you saw something that wasn't there. 

(05-09-2016, 08:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Would they? Who knows. Should they? Absolutely.

It would be one thing if a group of mixed cultures and races posed with the confederate flag; but if it were stickily white southeners, then they have made a political statement and disgraced the uniform. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-09-2016, 08:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks have generally come to realize that you seldom makes a point; usually just post a meme, parrot what someone else said, or quote folks and insert a smiley face. But I must say, this meme makes absolutely no sense. Was there a point? I'm going to go with no; maybe someone else sees it. Help me out folks.

(05-09-2016, 09:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: See?  

Anyway...in fantasy "I didn't say that land"

Thanks for that. 

[GMDino]

(05-09-2016, 09:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Thanks for that. 

I mean, sure, you can go for a personal attack rather than defend what you said but that's so unlike....


oh never mind.

Solid post.