When was America great ?

[*Nately120*]

(07-07-2023, 05:25 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Yes, which is why I was questioning the religious aspect? 

How exactly would God's Kingdom make America great, as your image alluded to?

[HarleyDog]

(07-07-2023, 05:17 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: This is the Politics AND Religion 2.0 forum right? 

People who don't believe in God are quick to cut you down for even mentioning him. They claim it's your right to worship or whatever, but mention his name and let the unraveling begin. They'll treat you as worthless and stupid for believing. They hate you under their skin but won't admit it and they don't even know why. For people who don't believe, they sure do take religion personally. 

[hollodero]

(07-07-2023, 05:31 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: People who don't believe in God are quick to cut you down for even mentioning him. They claim it's your right to worship or whatever, but mention his name and let the unraveling begin. They'll treat you as worthless and stupid for believing. They hate you under their skin but won't admit it and they don't even know why. For people who don't believe, they sure do take religion personally. 

Well, mentioning God is a bit different from advocationg to erect God's kingdom. There are implications within the latter that extend privately held beliefs.

[*Nately120*]

(07-07-2023, 05:31 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: People who don't believe in God are quick to cut you down for even mentioning him. They claim it's your right to worship or whatever, but mention his name and let the unraveling begin. They'll treat you as worthless and stupid for believing. They hate you under their skin but won't admit it and they don't even know why. For people who don't believe, they sure do take religion personally. 

Christians willingly disbelieve in thousands of gods and openly disagree with most of the planet's population, too.  Just by not believing that Vishnu is the #1 god you're putting down 1.2 billion people, right there.

Oh crap, I've engaged in religious debate.  I should delete my prior post.

[HarleyDog]

(07-07-2023, 05:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Christians willingly disbelieve in thousands of gods and openly disagree with most of the planet's population, too.  Just by not believing that Vishnu is the #1 god you're putting down 1.2 billion people, right there.

Oh crap, I've engaged in religious debate.  I should delete my prior post.

I'm not talking about anything other than God. The messiahs and second-hand characters to God are not what I'm referring to. 

[Lucidus]

(07-07-2023, 05:31 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: People who don't believe in God are quick to cut you down for even mentioning him. They claim it's your right to worship or whatever, but mention his name and let the unraveling begin. They'll treat you as worthless and stupid for believing. They hate you under their skin but won't admit it and they don't even know why. For people who don't believe, they sure do take religion personally. 

Are the beliefs espoused by religious person off limits; or should they be open to query, evaluation and discussion -- and criticism?

[*Nately120*]

(07-07-2023, 05:39 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'm not talking about anything other than God. The messiahs and second-hand characters to God are not what I'm referring to. 

Are we walking Baháʼí territory here?  I assume not since we're in a very USA-centric political forum.

[HarleyDog]

(07-07-2023, 05:41 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Are the beliefs espoused by religious person off limits; or should they be open to query, evaluation and discussion -- and criticism?

Didn't say that, but my gut says you weren't really looking for a discussion, just wanted to jab to make you feel better. I could be wrong, that's how I took it. 

[HarleyDog]

(07-07-2023, 05:43 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Are we walking Baháʼí territory here?  I assume not since we're in a very USA-centric political forum.

Never heard of that religion. But after further review, close enough.

[*Nately120*]

(07-07-2023, 05:50 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Never heard of that religion. But after further review, close enough.

Hey, I only found out it existed through Seals & Crofts, myself.

[BengalYankee]

(07-07-2023, 05:25 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Yes, which is why I was questioning the religious aspect? 

How exactly would God's Kingdom make America, Earth great, as your image alluded to?

The new creation. God completely remakes the heavens and the earth. It is at this time that God wipes away all tears and there will be no more pain, death, or sorrow. The New Jerusalem descends from heaven, and the children of God will enjoy eternity with Him (Revelation 21–22).


This place that Jesus talks about is pointing to our eternal home where God has promised a new heaven and a new earth. Well what exactly is the new heaven and new earth? I figured since you are going to be spending a long time there (eternity is a long time) it makes sense to know what it is all about.

If you were to try to think of imagery to describe the New Heaven and New Earth, what comes to my mind is Creation 2.0.

If you recall prior to the fall of man, Adam and Eve lived in a perfect, sinless world. They are the only human beings who ever lived on this planet that know what that experience is like. The world we live in now has been corrupted by the influence of sin which has brought every type of problem along with it. I don’t think I need to remind you, just look at the news.

The New Heaven and New Earth will be God resetting and recreating the heavens and the earth, where sin and the effects of sin will no longer be present. You will be able to enjoy the beauty of God’s presence in all of his glory, unhindered by the presence of sin.

The new earth will be free from sin, evil, sickness, suffering, and death. It will be similar to our current earth, but without the curse of sin. It will be earth as God originally intended it to be. It will be Eden restored.

A major feature of the new earth will be the New Jerusalem. John calls it “the Holy City . . . coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband” (Revelation 21:2). This glorious city, with its streets of gold and pearly gates, is situated on a new, glorious earth. The tree of life will be there (Revelation 22:2). This city represents the final state of redeemed mankind, forever in fellowship with God: “God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. . . . His servants will serve him. They will see his face” (Revelation 21:3; 22:3–4).

In the new heavens and new earth, Scripture says, there are seven things notable for their absence—seven things that are “no more”:
• no more sea (Revelation 21:1)
• no more death (Revelation 21:4)
• no more mourning (Revelation 21:4)
• no more weeping (Revelation 21:4)
• no more pain (Revelation 21:4)
• no more curse (Revelation 22:3)
• no more night (Revelation 22:5)

The creation of the new heavens and new earth brings the promise that God “will wipe every tear from their eyes” (Revelation 21:4). This event comes after the tribulation, after the Lord’s second coming, after the millennial kingdom, after the final rebellion, after the final judgment of Satan, and after the Great White Throne Judgment. The brief description of the new heavens and new earth is the last glimpse into eternity that the Bible gives.

[Lucidus]

(07-07-2023, 05:46 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Didn't say that, but my gut says you weren't really looking for a discussion, just wanted to jab to make you feel better. I could be wrong, that's how I took it. 

Perhaps you could explain the jab?

I thought the question was quite legitimate. 

[Lucidus]

(07-07-2023, 06:05 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: The new creation. God completely remakes the heavens and the earth. It is at this time that God wipes away all tears and there will be no more pain, death, or sorrow. The New Jerusalem descends from heaven, and the children of God will enjoy eternity with Him (Revelation 21–22).


This place that Jesus talks about is pointing to our eternal home where God has promised a new heaven and a new earth. Well what exactly is the new heaven and new earth? I figured since you are going to be spending a long time there (eternity is a long time) it makes sense to know what it is all about.

If you were to try to think of imagery to describe the New Heaven and New Earth, what comes to my mind is Creation 2.0.

If you recall prior to the fall of man, Adam and Eve lived in a perfect, sinless world. They are the only human beings who ever lived on this planet that know what that experience is like. The world we live in now has been corrupted by the influence of sin which has brought every type of problem along with it. I don’t think I need to remind you, just look at the news.

The New Heaven and New Earth will be God resetting and recreating the heavens and the earth, where sin and the effects of sin will no longer be present. You will be able to enjoy the beauty of God’s presence in all of his glory, unhindered by the presence of sin.

The new earth will be free from sin, evil, sickness, suffering, and death. It will be similar to our current earth, but without the curse of sin. It will be earth as God originally intended it to be. It will be Eden restored.

A major feature of the new earth will be the New Jerusalem. John calls it “the Holy City . . . coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband” (Revelation 21:2). This glorious city, with its streets of gold and pearly gates, is situated on a new, glorious earth. The tree of life will be there (Revelation 22:2). This city represents the final state of redeemed mankind, forever in fellowship with God: “God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. . . . His servants will serve him. They will see his face” (Revelation 21:3; 22:3–4).

In the new heavens and new earth, Scripture says, there are seven things notable for their absence—seven things that are “no more”:
• no more sea (Revelation 21:1)
• no more death (Revelation 21:4)
• no more mourning (Revelation 21:4)
• no more weeping (Revelation 21:4)
• no more pain (Revelation 21:4)
• no more curse (Revelation 22:3)
• no more night (Revelation 22:5)

The creation of the new heavens and new earth brings the promise that God “will wipe every tear from their eyes” (Revelation 21:4). This event comes after the tribulation, after the Lord’s second coming, after the millennial kingdom, after the final rebellion, after the final judgment of Satan, and after the Great White Throne Judgment. The brief description of the new heavens and new earth is the last glimpse into eternity that the Bible gives.

Thank you for the response. 

First, can I ask if you're familiar with apocalyptic literary styles or any of the academic theologians / Biblical scholars that believe Revelation to be purely symbolic and metaphorical? I ask because you seem to have a very literalist view. If I'm mistaken, please let me know. Knowing your views on that will help me address your post with a clearer understanding of how you interpret it.

[*michaelsean*]

Been great since 1789. It didn’t stop because this guy was president or that guy.

[samhain]

(07-07-2023, 03:50 PM)basballguy Wrote: The fall of America coincides with Hulk Hogan's transition to evil in 90s.  Once he got rid of "Real American" as a theme song, we were cooked.  

I dunno.  I think the cancellation of Ronald McDonald and his gang for no reason has brought wrath upon our nation.

[HarleyDog]

(07-07-2023, 04:35 PM)Lucidus Wrote: The same "God's Kingdom" that promoted slavery, misogyny and homophobia; among other terrible ideas / notions? 

(07-07-2023, 06:05 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Perhaps you could explain the jab?

I thought the question was quite legitimate. 

Simply by your choice of words. A religious belief can be dear to someone heart. A personal connection and relationship. That’s why to begin a discussion in this manner seems mischievous.

(07-07-2023, 06:24 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Thank you for the response. 

First, can I ask if you're familiar with apocalyptic literary styles or any of the academic theologians / Biblical scholars that believe Revelation to be purely symbolic and metaphorical? I ask because you seem to have a very literalist view. If I'm mistaken, please let me know. Knowing your views on that will help me address your post with a clearer understanding of how you interpret it.

I know this quote is not intended for me, but wanted to respond. I believe the Bible is full of metaphors because authors of the books feared repercussions, so they wrote metaphoricaly. Although I understand, it unfortunately does more damage than good if taken literally. Too much is lost metaphorically, and also in translation and interpretation.

[*Synric*]

I would answer late 1800s into the early 1900s (Between the Civil War and the Great Depression) the US was an industrial giant during this period.

From around the 1960s to the 1980s a plastics boom, the beginning of the boom in Silicon Valley would be a decent answer I guess. The Automotive world was big in the 1950s -1980s too...

[*Nately120*]

(07-07-2023, 10:45 PM)samhain Wrote: I dunno.  I think the cancellation of Ronald McDonald and his gang for no reason has brought wrath upon our nation.

The McDonaldsland DOJ was weaponized by Mayor McCheese to demonize and target the ultra-innocent Hamburglar. 

[GMDino]

I find it interesting that many of the replies are about when America was making a lot of money.  Based on when Business was booming.

During those times a lot of Americans couldn't even vote.  America was not "great" for everyone...but mostly white men during those times.

Very interesting.

[*pally*]

America and Americans have done great things but as a whole has never been a great country, IMO. Segments of the population have done quite well at various times in history but at no time has everyone been on equal footing.

So many have listed time periods where the only people who had free access to the economy were white, protestant, straight males. This a prime indication that the teaching of American History must expand beyond the Hillsdale College approved whitewashed alternative reality version so many are currently pushing

If I had to hazard a guess, Trump means the time of his youth, the 1950's-1960's

When will actual greatness be achieved...

When our schools are cathedrals of learning
When our healthcare is the best in the world, affordable, and accessible to everyone;
When citizens' chances of success no longer depend on their sex, their gender, their sexual orientation, their ethnicity, their religion, their connections, or zip code
When housing is safe and affordable for everyone
When healthy food is plentiful and affordable for everyone
When people are no longer gunned down in schools, stores, theatres, churches, their workplaces
When ideas are freely shared and books no longer banned
When the Bengals win a Super Bowl and the Reds win another World Series

There is far more to being great than economic success