Who is "wrong" Student or Teacher

[*bfine32*]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/letitia-chai-cornell-student-strips-underwear-thesis-professor-rebekah-maggor-attire/

Quote:A student at Cornell University stripped down to her underwear while livestreaming her senior thesis presentation last weekend. Letitia Chai removed her shirt and shorts in protest after her professor allegedly questioned her attire during a practice run of her presentation a few days earlier.

Personally I feel the student disrespected her educator. I have been given advise on how to present myself for classroom presentations and never took offense to it.

[GMDino]

(05-14-2018, 01:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/letitia-chai-cornell-student-strips-underwear-thesis-professor-rebekah-maggor-attire/


Personally I feel the student disrespected her educator. I have been given advise on how to present myself for classroom presentations and never took offense to it.

In my opinion if there is a dress code for certain things/times (real or implied) then the student was wrong.

If the student took the "advice" too personally she is also wrong.

The only way the teacher is wrong is if she belittled the dress choice for her own nearsighted reasons (men will be distracted) and there was no reason for the student to not dress in an informal matter.

[BmorePat87]

It seems like the professor addressed her comments regarding mens attention, which I think is unfair to both men and women.

So after that point, the student is in the "wrong". Her professor was correct to question wearing jean shorts for a presentation. It's unprofessional.

[fredtoast]

Student is wrong.

12 students other than Chai in the room when this happened. 11 of the 12 wrote a letter in support of the teacher. See the link in the story in the OP.

[Dill]

(05-14-2018, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Student is wrong.

12 students other than Chai in the room when this happened.  11 of the 12 wrote a letter in support of the teacher.  See the link in the story in the OP.

They did acknowledge poor choice of words on the professor's part, though.

[*michaelsean*]

The advice was sound. She should have left the part about men out of the advice. I can't think this being on the internet helps the student in future job hunts. Some companies may like something like that, but I would guess the majority would see an HR nightmare coming down the road.

[GMDino]

(05-14-2018, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Student is wrong.

12 students other than Chai in the room when this happened.  11 of the 12 wrote a letter in support of the teacher.  See the link in the story in the OP.

From that letter:

Quote:After Letitia left, our professor listened and agreed with many of the student’s comments and criticisms.

She wholeheartedly agreed that her initial comment was about professionalism rather than the “male
gaze” mentioned in the student discussion. She also apologized for her choice of words, acknowledging
that the notion of “short shorts” on women carries a lot of cultural and political baggage. Unfortunately,
because Letitia was not in the room, she was not able to hear these comments, and we believe this
contributed to the miscommunication.

After giving Letitia some space and seeing the international student (mentioned in her post) leave, our

professor approached Letitia and spoke with her while the rest of us were in the classroom. We cannot

comment on what transpired during their interaction outside, but afterwards, our professor returned to tell
us that Letitia was “gracious enough to return and give her speech.”

Still not saying the student was right necessarily...but for clarity the supporting letter says the professor came to an understanding after the student left and they do not know how the conversation went after except what the professor told her.

 

[Benton]

Hit

[*michaelsean*]

(05-14-2018, 07:23 PM)Benton Wrote: Hit

I’d have a signed-witnessed contract stating her willingness.

[StLucieBengal]

Student is wrong.

Seen the men’s attention part get some run here..... it’s appropriate to bring it up. The teacher is trying to teach her on how to conduct herself in a professional enviornment. There needs to be a place in the classroom for hard truths.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-14-2018, 09:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Student is wrong.

Seen the men’s attention part get some run here..... it’s appropriate to bring it up. The teacher is trying to teach her on how to conduct herself in a professional enviornment. There needs to be a place in the classroom for hard truths.

Just no reason to add it as it detracts from the main point of presenting oneself professionally. She wore the shorts at a run through, and a quick reminder of how she should present herself at the real presentation would be sufficient. The student’s reaction was ridiculous regardless.

[hollodero]

If I only knew sooner that's how girls react if their clothing gets criticized.

@question I think that girl's stupid, over-sensitve and overly dramatic. Sorry.

[GMDino]

(05-14-2018, 09:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Student is wrong.  

Seen the men’s attention part get some run here.....  it’s appropriate to bring it up.  The teacher is trying to teach her on how to conduct herself in a professional enviornment.    There needs to be a place in the classroom for hard truths.

What is your dress code for men and women at your business?

[StLucieBengal]

(05-14-2018, 10:23 PM)GMDino Wrote: What is your dress code for men and women at your business?

Women tend to wear dresses the men mix it up between suits and even down to jeans and sports jacket and in between. We do speak to them about presentation, we also have had to pull a couple of women in to discuss how they present themselves. Sometimes we get new employees who are younger and go really, really sexy..... instead we help them tone it down a bit. Our employees do a nice job of policing this stuff, . Down here men can get away with a more causal look. Women’s dresses can also be more colorful.

[GMDino]

(05-14-2018, 11:08 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Women tend to wear dresses the men mix it up between suits and even down to jeans and sports jacket and in between.  We do speak to them about presentation, we also have had to pull a couple of women in to discuss how they present themselves.   Sometimes we get new employees who are younger and go really, really sexy..... instead we help them tone it down a bit.   Our employees do a nice job of policing this stuff, .  Down here men can get away with a more causal look.   Women’s dresses can also be more colorful.

Can women wear pants so they don't tempt the men?

[*bfine32*]

(05-14-2018, 11:08 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Women tend to wear dresses the men mix it up between suits and even down to jeans and sports jacket and in between.  We do speak to them about presentation, we also have had to pull a couple of women in to discuss how they present themselves.   Sometimes we get new employees who are younger and go really, really sexy..... instead we help them tone it down a bit.   Our employees do a nice job of policing this stuff, .  Down here men can get away with a more causal look.   Women’s dresses can also be more colorful.

Story time: 

While I was in the Military I was Combat Arms, which meant I did not work directly with females. But there was a time that I was an instructor in a professional development school that had both males and females. One of my hardest tasks was to "counsel"  females on their personal appearance.

For instance it was easy for me to tell a male to "get a haircut", but it was hard to tell a female that her hair must present a "kept appearance". And I don't even want to go into the fit of the uniform.     

[Dill]

(05-14-2018, 03:17 PM)michaelsean Wrote: The advice was sound.  She should have left the part about men out of the advice.  I can't think this being on the internet helps the student in future job hunts.  Some companies may like something like that, but I would guess the majority would see an HR nightmare coming down the road.

I agree.  

[StLucieBengal]

(05-14-2018, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Story time: 

While I was in the Military I was Combat Arms, which meant I did not work directly with females. But there was a time that I was an instructor in a professional development school that had both males and females. One of my hardest tasks was to "counsel"  females on their personal appearance.

For instance it was easy for me to tell a male to "get a haircut", but it was hard to tell a female that her hair must present a "kept appearance". And I don't even want to go into the fit of the uniform.     

It’s extremely difficult, which is why my wife usually handles that, also our female employees that have been here also take a leadership role. If they didn’t then I would have a much harder time touching that issue.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-14-2018, 11:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: Can women wear pants so they don't tempt the men?

They can wear pants, we don't have a no pants policy. I can’t remember the last time any of them did wear them.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-15-2018, 10:31 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They can wear pants, we don't have a no pants policy.  I can’t remember the last time any of them did wear them.

I have a no pants policy at home.