Why do free agent linebackers come here and wither?

[THE PISTONS]

I think the way the NFL is moving, Safeties are going to start playing LB and some CB's Safety to get more coverage. Teams might use a LB like a 5th defensive lineman too.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-05-2018, 01:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think the way the NFL is moving, Safeties are going to start playing LB and some CB's Safety to get more coverage. Teams might use a LB like a 5th defensive lineman too.

Williams should move to LB.

[SunsetBengal]

It's time to spend some quality picks on LB. The Bengals haven't invested a 2nd round pick on LB since Rey Maualuga in 2009. They haven't used a 1st round pick since Keith Rivers in 2008. They haven't really invested hardcore in the position since 1998, Takeo Spikes and Brian Simmons were both taken in the 1st round.

[Hammerstripes]

Because we have yet to sign one that fills an area of need for us.

We always end up signing guys like Minter and Brown. WE don't need a guy to come in and play the run, we need guys to come in and cover tight ends and running backs. When we sign a guy like that, you'll see one that makes a difference.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-05-2018, 01:16 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't want to use the word fail, but over the past several seasons we've signed guys to 1 year deals and they've came here and not achieved the success of their previous stop.

Any theories?

Preston Brown continues the trend unfortunately so far.

When we've signed these LB's...we've thought that we were getting great deals in most cases. Especially Minter and Brown.

Haslett is a big reason, never liked this guy. But i don't think Preston has been terrible so far. He needs to get better
like all our LB's but he has two interceptions and missed a couple games. He was never known for being a great cover
backer or anything.

[grampahol]

Perhaps the Bengals ought to start recruiting from prisons again and get the homicidal maniacs about to be released to play LB.. Every good LB since Thurman has pretty much fit the bill with the exception of perhaps Vigil..  
Ok, so homicidal maniacs might get more penalties and suspensions, but there's a lot to choose from since plenty of people are released from prison every year. 
So homicidal maniacs probably wouldn't do much for the image of the nice  church going team, but the squeelers might stop treating us like a doormat.. 

[motoarch]

I don’t feel like brown is any different then what he was supposed to be.

The impression I got was he was a slightly above average guy that managed to make a lot of tackles. So far he’s played like a slightly above average guy that gets a lot of tackles.


As mentioned everyone else we brought in recently has been over the hill anyway and we’re castoffs at that point in their career.

I think your expectation exceeds reality.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-05-2018, 02:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's time to spend some quality picks on LB.  The Bengals haven't invested a 2nd round pick on LB since Rey Maualuga in 2009.  They haven't used a 1st round pick since Keith Rivers in 2008.  They haven't really invested hardcore in the position since 1998, Takeo Spikes and Brian Simmons were both taken in the 1st round.

So draft needs are shaping up like this:

LB - Could become an urgent need if Burfict gets a season long suspension or doesn't return to form. The good news is you can get good LB's in the 2nd Round.

Tackle, Guard - We might need 2 Tackles if Glenn doesn't return to form. His contract makes him easy to release. I'd love to try Westerman over Redmond and see what we have there.

TE - Time to move on from Eifert. Either sign or draft one.

I could make a case of taking any of those positions as early as Round 1.

I do think the offensive line is the most critical position to build.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-05-2018, 03:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So draft needs are shaping up like this:

LB - Could become an urgent need if Burfict gets a season long suspension or doesn't return to form. The good news is you can get good LB's in the 2nd Round.

Tackle, Guard - We might need 2 Tackles if Glenn doesn't return to form. His contract makes him easy to release. I'd love to try Westerman over Redmond and see what we have there.

TE - Time to move on from Eifert. Either sign or draft one.

I could make a case of taking any of those positions as early as Round 1.

I do think the offensive line is the most critical position to build.

The problem lies in that during the entire Mike Brown era, they have only had success with drafting LB at or near the top of the draft.  The exception being Burfict, of course.  But, we all know the story behind his fall from the top of the draft.  They've went to the 3rd round twice in recent years, with Vigil being a solid developmental project and this year's guy yet to even sniff the field.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-05-2018, 02:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's time to spend some quality picks on LB.  The Bengals haven't invested a 2nd round pick on LB since Rey Maualuga in 2009.  They haven't used a 1st round pick since Keith Rivers in 2008.  They haven't really invested hardcore in the position since 1998, Takeo Spikes and Brian Simmons were both taken in the 1st round.

...and that was only because we were moving to a 3-4 scheme.

[bengalhoel]

This defense lives and dies with our front four. If we get pressure consistently we look like we could beat anyone. If we dont get pressure at all, then we rely on our offense to score.

No pressure + offense having an off day = K.C. Chiefs loss

[XenoMorph]

we don't use our LBers aggressively.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-05-2018, 04:42 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: This defense lives and dies with our front four.  If we get pressure consistently we look like we could beat anyone. If we dont get pressure at all, then we rely on our offense to score.

No pressure + offense having an off day = K.C. Chiefs loss

We actually do get pressure according to the PFF stats. The issue seems to be when we get pressure, the QB knows who (TE or RB or Receiver) to dump the ball quickly to for a positive play.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-05-2018, 04:43 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: we don't use our LBers aggressively.

Never have. We have slow powerful LB's and we drop them back into zone coverage where faster players dart in and out and they can't cover them.

[THE PISTONS]

I play Ultimate Frisbee and our defense reminds me of that a bit. We generally have people sag off and not be aggressive to prevent throws deep, then let a few people pressure the Frisbee and hope the other team turns it over...which in Frisbee happens. Make them throw it 20-25 times...someone will mess up. That's better than playing aggressive and getting a lot of deep throws that are completed.

The problem is in football, QB's can shred you doing that. And then if guys break tackles it compounds.

Our defensive strategy might work if we had better tacklers and faster LB's. (In my Frisbee analogy the LB's would be the ones challenging the Frisbee up the field.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-05-2018, 05:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We actually do get pressure according to the PFF stats. The issue seems to be when we get pressure, the QB knows who (TE or RB or Receiver) to dump the ball quickly to for a positive play.

Yep. If you are going to only try to get pressure from your Front 4, you need LBs that can cover a lot of ground sideline-to-sideline and be elite wrap-up tacklers.

[*psychdoctor*]

(11-05-2018, 11:22 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I just dont buy that. Playing linebacker isnt rocket science. Go out and tackle the ball carrier or defend your area of the field when the team is passing. These guys were veteran players, they should know how to play the position by the time they are brought in. 

That also doesnt explain why some of our linebackers have been good over the past few years (Burfict) and why some have been bad or average. To me, its a talent disparity. You can literally SEE how slow some of our linebackers move.

Burfict is slow.  Maybe the coaching staff is poor at evaluating backer position which is ironic since Lewis was the backer coach for Ravens.  Players may know how to play the position but the "captain" has to get the right calls, and they have to have the right alignment for each play.  What I have noticed is that the backers seem out of position and do not have time to make adjustment during the play.  So the backers become ineffective because of schemes.  I am not crazy about Haslett.  

[bengalhoel]

(11-05-2018, 05:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We actually do get pressure according to the PFF stats. The issue seems to be when we get pressure, the QB knows who (TE or RB or Receiver) to dump the ball quickly to for a positive play.

I mean pressure when we need it.  I know that pressure is good on any down but you can get some pressure on 1st or 2nd down and still give up yards. I dont know what they consider pressure but when we absolutely need it for a stop, we are no where near the QB. I dont give a shit what PFF says. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-05-2018, 06:24 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: I mean pressure when we need it.  I know that pressure is good on any down but you can get some pressure on 1st or 2nd down and still give up yards. I dont know what they consider pressure but when we absolutely need it for a stop, we are no where near the QB. I dont give a shit what PFF says. 

You're missing the point. We have 3 guys who generate A LOT of pressure - Dunlap, Atkins, and Lawson.

But, when the pressure gets there...the QB's just dump the ball to an open TE or RB or WR because the coverage is so bad.

Yeah no team gets pressure 100% of the time either so there will be plays you can point to and say look they aren't getting pressure. But our front 4 generates a tremendous amount.

The major issue on defense is the LB's are ALL playing poorly. If we had 3 above average LB's...the defense would be so much better.

And if you blitz these guys to generate pressure, things get worse.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-05-2018, 05:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We actually do get pressure according to the PFF stats. The issue seems to be when we get pressure, the QB knows who (TE or RB or Receiver) to dump the ball quickly to for a positive play.

Yes, we do get pressure from the front 4, I've seen it with my own eyes.  The problem, and I hate to keep brining this issue up, is that they are playing zone.  When they played man, there were not nearly as many "instant opens" for QBs to dump the ball off to in a hurry. Hell, and when an opposing QB does get 3+ seconds to study the field, someone is always open, as our secondary doesn't seem to know who's responsibility each receiver is.

Heck, go back to man coverage.  Make the LBs jam the TE, every single play, no more free slants.  Have the CBs press from the line, as well.  Make the receiver actually have to work, in order to beat someone deep.