Why does Trump hang out with so many pedophiles?

[GMDino]

(09-20-2023, 11:31 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: You know Hillary was the one who started that, right? 

Is Hillary in the room with us now? 

[LSUfaninTN]

(09-21-2023, 09:09 AM)GMDino Wrote: Is Hillary in the room with us now? 

Just saying, if you’re going to bash Trump for doing it, let’s go to the source first.

[GMDino]

(09-21-2023, 10:16 AM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Just saying, if you’re going to bash Trump for doing it, let’s go to the source first.

I mean P01135809 said he had proof.  He was still questioning it up until the presidential debates with Hillary.

One person saying something, the other person believing it and repeating it and claiming he had proof of it, seems to be apples and oranges.

Of course the source for Hillary being the one who started it...was Trump.  And he was apparently wrong.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37391652

Quote:Now, according to fact-checkers and contemporary media reports, questions about Mr Obama's birthplace began circulating among disgruntled Clinton supporters in the last months of her ill-fated campaign against the then-Senator Obama in 2008.



It was desperate times in the Clinton camp, and the candidate did not always acquit herself well, such as when she said that Mr Obama was not a Muslim "as far as I know". But there is no evidence of ties between her and her campaign staff and the Obama birthplace allegations.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2015/07/31/fact-check-did-hillary-clinton-start-birther-movement/15673893007/

Quote:Cruz said in an interview on June 29 that "the whole birther thing was started by the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2008," and Trump said earlier this year that "Hillary Clinton wanted [Obama's] birth certificate. Hillary is a birther."


Birthers are those people who contend that President Barack Obama was born in Kenya and is ineligible to be president.



FactCheck.org looked into the matter and found that, indeed, some of Clinton's biggest supporters advocated the birther theory, but there is no evidence that Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with it.


...

When FactCheck.org asked the Cruz campaign to back up his claim, it pointed to two articles. The first ran in Politico on April 22, 2011, under the headline, "Birtherism: Where it all began:"



The article stated:


"The answer lies in Democratic, not Republican politics, and in the bitter, exhausting spring of 2008. At the time, the Democratic presidential primary was slipping away from Hillary Clinton and some of her most passionate supporters grasped for something, anything that would deal a final reversal to Barack Obama."

According to the article, the theory that Obama was born in Kenya "first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama's citizenship.'"


The second article was published by the Telegraph, a British paper, that stated: "An anonymous email circulated by supporters of Mrs Clinton, Mr Obama's main rival for the party's nomination, thrust a new allegation into the national spotlight - that he had not been born in Hawaii."


Claims about Obama's birthplace have long circulated in chain emails around the Web, but none of the stories suggests any link between the Clinton campaign, let alone Clinton herself, and the advocacy of the birther theories, FactCheck.org reported.


One of the authors of the Politico story, Byron Tau, now a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, told FactCheck.org via an email that "we never found any links between the Clinton campaign and the rumors in 2008."
The other co-author of the Politico story, Ben Smith, now the editor-in-chief of BuzzFeed, said in a May 2013 interview on MSNBC that the conspiracy theories traced back to "some of [Hillary Clinton's] passionate supporters" during the final throes of Clinton's 2008 campaign.

But he said they did not come from "Clinton herself or her staff."


Again, neither Trump - whose campaign never responded to FactCheck.org's request for backup material - nor Cruz provides any corroborating evidence that Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the birther movement.
We found various references during a search of the Web, but all put the birther origin on Clinton supporters.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/birther-movement-founder-trump-clinton-228304

Quote:After years of denying the legitimacy of Barack Obama’s presidency, it was only in the midst of his own presidential campaign that Donald Trump began falsely claiming Hillary Clinton was the true progenitor of the “birther” conspiracy theory claiming Obama was not born in the United States.

But that’s swapping one discredited claim for another. Numerous fact checks, reports and interviews — in 2008 and 2011, when Trump revived the controversy — revealed that although some Clinton supporters circulated rumors about Obama’s citizenship, the campaign and Clinton herself never trafficked in it.


“As we reported, some of her supporters flirted with the idea in 2008 — but it has its origins in the fever swamps beginning in Illinois in 2004,” he said.


In fact, birtherism, as it’s been called, reportedly began with innuendo by serial Illinois political candidate Andy Martin, who painted Obama as a closet Muslim in 2004. That spiraled into a concerted effort by conspiracy theorists to raise doubts about Obama’s birthplace and religion — and essentially paint him as un-American.



Martin, who briefly launched a little-noticed presidential campaign last year, has disavowed the movement he’s often credited with starting, though he still foments similarly discredited doubts about Obama’s religion.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ap-fact-check-trumps-bogus-birtherism-claim-clinton

Quote:When finally coming around to the fact President Barack Obama was born in the United States, Donald Trump tacked on a dig at his White House rival. It was Hillary Clinton, he said, who started the rumor that Obama was born abroad.

“President Barack Obama was born in the United States. Period,” the Republican presidential nominee said last week, before quickly deflecting blame. “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.”


But Trump’s new allegation that it was all Clinton’s fault is as untrue as his original lie. The public record over the past decade undermines his attempt to blame the Democratic nominee for the origins of a conspiracy Trump peddled for years.
People in Clinton’s orbit did discuss Obama’s background during their bitter primary struggle in 2008. But as nasty as that campaign got at times, it was not an anything-goes affair. And it appears that when Clinton got wind of smears about Obama’s roots or religion, she either shut down that line of argument or ignored it.


There is no evidence that Clinton herself has ever said Obama wasn’t born in America.


Trump, meanwhile, was for the past five years the primary propagator of the falsehood that Obama was not born in Hawaii in 1961, even though there was no serious question about Obama’s birthplace even before the president produced his birth certificate in 2011.


...


On Sunday, Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway cited three pieces of evidence to support her boss’ claim that Clinton was the original “birther.”

Here’s a closer look at evidence that is dubious at best, fails to tie the falsehood conclusively to Clinton herself and cannot compete with Trump’s yearslong effort to undermine the legitimacy of the nation’s first African-American president.




THE EMAIL

In an interview Sunday with CBS’ “Face The Nation,” Conway offered as a first piece of evidence an email that surfaced about a month before the January 2008 Iowa caucuses. Obama and Clinton, then U.S. senators, were at that time locked in a fierce campaign as stars atop the Democratic presidential field.




Judy Rose, Clinton’s top volunteer in a rural eastern Iowa county, had forwarded the chain email to eight fellow Democrats. It mentioned Obama’s father’s Kenyan ancestry and the father’s Muslim faith. But that email, which became public the following month, stated that “Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii.” There is no evidence that Clinton herself has ever said Obama wasn’t born in America. The email falsely claimed Obama is a Muslim and equated Islam with support for overthrowing the U.S. government. “The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level,” the email from an anonymous author stated.




Rose quit her unpaid volunteer post and Clinton’s national campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle contacted her counterpart in Obama’s campaign, David Plouffe, to apologize. It was clear, Obama’s team says, that Clinton was not behind the attempted smear.




“Having worked on that campaign, there was no point where we felt that Hillary Clinton was pushing these rumors,” said Tommy Vietor, Obama’s 2008 Iowa campaign spokesman and later a White House communications aide.




Questions about Obama’s place of birth did surface in an anonymous email in April 2008 that was circulated among some die-hard Clinton supporters, as Obama appeared headed toward the presidential nomination.




That email alleged that Obama’s U.S.-born mother was living in Kenya late in her pregnancy, was unable to travel and registered his birth in Hawaii after he was born. There is no evidence Clinton or her campaign team spread it around.




THE MEMO

Conway also cited a memo by Mark Penn, Clinton’s chief pollster and media strategist in the 2008 campaign. It cites Obama’s “Lack of American Roots” as a liability.




“His roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited,” Penn wrote, further suggesting Obama was “not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and his values.” Penn went on to suggest Clinton draw attention to the idea “without going negative.”




In a race that had become personal and caustic, Clinton rejected out of hand the ideas that Penn did present, Solis Doyle said.




“I’m not saying we didn’t campaign hard against Obama,” she said. “It was a hard-fought, sometimes brutal campaign. But this would have delegitimized his identity. And, to us, that was beyond the pale.”




It is worth noting, too, there is no mention in the strategy proposal of Obama’s birthplace. “We are never going to say anything about his background — we have to show the value of ours,” Penn wrote.




THE ASSOCIATE

By one account, an important unofficial adviser to Clinton did stoke rumors about Obama’s country of birth. Conway cited Clinton associate Sidney Blumenthal meeting the Washington bureau chief for McClatchy newspapers at the time, James Asher, and telling him Obama was born in Kenya.




Blumenthal has denied discussing the subject with Asher, who maintains he met with the Clinton confidant. McClatchy correspondents have said it’s true Asher asked them to look into Obama’s ties to Kenya. Attempts by The Associated Press to reach Asher on Tuesday were unsuccessful.




But there is no dispute that Blumenthal, while close to Clinton, was not officially part of the campaign staff. The McClatchy newspapers found nothing to support the claim that Obama was born in Kenya.

Nor did Clinton’s campaign stir a pot that Trump would tend to for years.



“The ‘birther’ thing was never an issue that mattered in any conversation, rising to the level where we had to address it,” said Paul Tewes, a senior Obama campaign adviser in 2008. “In other words, I don’t believe the Clinton campaign was out there being malicious.”

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-21-2023, 10:57 AM)GMDino Wrote: I mean P01135809 said he had proof.  He was still questioning it up until the presidential debates with Hillary.

One person saying something, the other person believing it and repeating it and claiming he had proof of it, seems to be apples and oranges.

Of course the source for Hillary being the one who started it...was Trump.  And he was apparently wrong.

Sure she did, it was in one of those "few" 17k Emails that she had washed cause it was Personal. 

[GMDino]

(09-21-2023, 11:24 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Sure she did, it was in one of those "few" 17k Emails that she had washed cause it was Personal. 

Must have been where P01135809's proof was  too! And his infrastructure plan...and his health care plan....and.... 

[LSUfaninTN]

(09-21-2023, 10:57 AM)GMDino Wrote: One person saying something, the other person believing it and repeating it and claiming he had proof of it, seems to be apples and oranges.

Of course the source for Hillary being the one who started it...was Trump.  And he was apparently wrong.

Trump’s claim that he had proof was dumb. I don’t think anyone debates that he has a terrible bedside manner for a politician. Especially in the beginning, he had no idea what he was doing. When he said Hillary’s campaign started it, he was referring to a staffer on the Hillary campaign, Patti Doyle, who tweeted that the rumor originated from Hillary’s staff. She then deleted the tweets. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-21-2023, 11:43 AM)GMDino Wrote: Must have been where P01135809's proof was  too! And his infrastructure plan...and his health care plan....and.... 

Yep, she paid for it all too, sadly was all mis-marked. Incompetency at it's finest 
We could do this all day!

[GMDino]

(09-21-2023, 11:55 AM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Trump’s claim that he had proof was dumb. I don’t think anyone debates that he has a terrible bedside manner for a politician. Especially in the beginning, he had no idea what he was doing. When he said Hillary’s campaign started it, he was referring to a staffer on the Hillary campaign, Patti Doyle, who tweeted that the rumor originated from Hillary’s staff. She then deleted the tweets. 

You spelled "he lies all the time" wrong. 

Oh...so he didn't mean what he said?  Of course not!  He couldn't have been lying...again.  

[SunsetBengal]

(09-21-2023, 12:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: You spelled "he lies all the time" wrong. 

Oh...so he didn't mean what he said?  Of course not!  He couldn't have been lying...again.  

Seems to be a Presidential thing, as it seems the current guy has some truth stretching issues as well, don't you think?

[GMDino]

(09-21-2023, 12:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Seems to be a Presidential thing, as it seems the current guy has some truth stretching issues as well, don't you think?

Is that whaboutism?

I'm sure EVERYONE lies...even you and me...sometimes.

P01335809 is a record setting liar.


Though, to be fair, a lot of those are probably him just repeating the same lie over and over and over and over.

For example there was ample proof Hillary didn't start it but he continued to say it because he doesn't care about the truth just what he can use to attack others and make himself look better.

[LSUfaninTN]

(09-21-2023, 12:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: You spelled "he lies all the time" wrong. 

Oh...so he didn't mean what he said?  Of course not!  He couldn't have been lying...again.  

They all lie. The difference is, while Trump lied about having evidence of Obama’s birth certificate, Biden lied about getting millions of dollars from China and not knowing anything about his son’s business dealings. I think I’d rather the former, but I don’t have TDS.

[BigPapaKain]

(09-21-2023, 02:50 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: They all lie. The difference is, while Trump lied about having evidence of Obama’s birth certificate, Biden lied about getting millions of dollars from China and not knowing anything about his son’s business dealings. I think I’d rather the former, but I don’t have TDS.

Evidently.