Why would anyone would stand up?

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2016, 01:56 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: You are losing it Fred...

So you want me to prove that a white man would be fired if he said the things Grundy said? 

Is that what you want?

 

You think a white man wouldn't be fired?  Do you really think this?

Whenever someone makes a claim based on something imaginary then I ask for some sort of proof.
 
Making up a situation and then relying on that made up situation to support your position is not a valid way to argue a point.

For example in another thread you claimed that the all claims of racial profiling came from the victims, but it onoly took me a few seconds to prove that wrong.  Sa maybe instead of crying about how it is not fair to make you support your own arguments you should actually do a little research yourself.

It is silly to tell other people that they have to do the research to support YOUR argument.

[BmorePat87]

(02-16-2016, 12:52 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: You don't think being fired for "Making the Black Kids Angry" would count as a form of institutional injustice? 

Who was fired?

Quote: How about the potential to be sent to jail if you killed a black person and you couldn't prove that it was a justified killing (protecting yourself and family) and you are charge for a hate crime?

That can be said using any combination of people who are not white and victims who are not white.

Quote:  Now this isn't in our country but since everyone wants us to be like other countries, in the UK you can in fact be arrested for speaking out against non whites.

You're right, that isn't our country.

Quote:Actually the data shows that it does agree with me.  BLM was created to bring to light that of all the times blacks are killed by whites.  They always protest when a black person is killed by the police.  However the data shows that white people are killed by the police more than black people.

Whites account for 62% of the US and 49% of police deaths. Blacks account for 13% of the US and 30% of police deaths. So, yea, it does support me. However, I'm referring to more that just killing as BLM is focused on inequality with the justice system. Take a look at the likelihood of being arrested, stopped, given jail time over probation, or given the death penalty for black people over white people. It's completely unequal. 

Quote:  Also blacks kill other blacks more than whites kill blacks.  BLM doesn't protest the black on black killing, which happens more, they instead protest the less likely white on black killing.

Bfine brought this up a few weeks ago. BLM is focused on issues with the criminal justice system and police. It's like asking why the Ronald McDonald house doesn't focus on providing shelter for mothers of children escaping abusive houses, only shelter for parents of children in the hospital.

Quote:This is where I would post a pic of a face palm.  We ARE in agreement that there are calls from both sides.  You then went toward the "I didn't say that" with my comment that the KKK is not on the same level as some of the people calling for the complete removal of the white race.  The reason for this comment is because of you saying "there are extremist on both sides".   David Duke would not be hired by any college, due to his views.  This is the point.  At one time, Duke did have some success in a small area.  Now, today - not a long time ago- we have people teaching in colleges that are spewing anti-white propaganda.  They are not being held accountable, which we both agree they shouldn't necessarily be, however it is very one sided.

You're still basically saying it is your opinion that black extremists have a more influential population than white extremists. 

Quote:So are you calling them a hate group?  or Not?  Again you are making sure everyone knows what RB supports and what they are against - even though this particular video doesn't mention any of these things.  Yet you made sure to bring all of this up.

Yea, I explained this already.

[Devils Advocate]

I see things in PnR are going smoothly.
I love it!

Diversity at its best and worst in one small unique community devoted to a hapless team ( the term 'hapless' fits the narrative. Just go with it).

The only missing ingredient would be the ultimate troll to fool us all once again only to crash and burn in epic style. I can't wait for that ( again)!


I do hope everyone sticks around.

[*bfine32*]

http://usmclife.com/2016/02/marine-war-hero-famous-iraq-photo-beaten-robbed-gang-black-lives-matter-teens/

Quote:A Marine vet who served in Iraq and Afghanistan became the target of an assault while eating at a McDonald’s Friday night in northwest DC. Metro PD is now investigating the incident and looking for five suspects between the ages of 16 and 21.

According to the Daily Caller News Foundation (DCNF), the group of teens started harassing Christopher Marquez while he was eating — surrounding his table and asking him: ‘Do you believe black lives matter.’ They also started calling him a racist.

Video report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z-jZKN7UHo

[GMDino]

(02-16-2016, 08:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://usmclife.com/2016/02/marine-war-hero-famous-iraq-photo-beaten-robbed-gang-black-lives-matter-teens/

Video report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z-jZKN7UHo

Okay...even this is happened as "reported" it is Tucker Carlson's site.  Not exactly an even handed one.

Also I didn't know anyone still carried Ann Coulter columns!


And I don't know what this has to do with a fictional teacher getting fired?

[*bfine32*]

(02-16-2016, 10:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Okay...even this is happened as "reported" it is Tucker Carlson's site.  Not exactly an even handed one.

Also I didn't know anyone still carried Ann Coulter columns!


And I don't know what this has to do with a fictional teacher getting fired?

Figured this was the most appropriate thread to place it in. I guess I could have started a new thread. As to the validity; are you suggesting the man that was attacked is fabricating the story or do you question the source because numerous outlets are reporting it. I do acknowledge that you get most of your stories from non-biased outlets.  

[BmorePat87]

(02-16-2016, 08:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://usmclife.com/2016/02/marine-war-hero-famous-iraq-photo-beaten-robbed-gang-black-lives-matter-teens/

Video report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z-jZKN7UHo

I'd believe it. You have a bunch of uneducated punks running around DC. Being a punk and uneducated usually means you're going to be a criminal. 

nothing on local media about this yet. 

[GMDino]

(02-16-2016, 10:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Figured this was the most appropriate thread to place it in. I guess I could have started a new thread. As to the validity; are you suggesting the man that was attacked is fabricating the story or do you question the source because numerous outlets are reporting it. I do acknowledge that you get most of your stories from non-biased outlets.  

I am not suggesting he made it up as I do not know.  It is VERY possible it went down just as he said.

But the only two sources are the local news and The Daily Caller.  Of the two the Caller is HEAVILY biased as a "news" source.  So you can poke a little swarmy fun at other sources but there is zero doubt about DC's reputation.

Could still be 100% true..but I always have qualms about that site.  At least there was a local news story to back it up.  Which is why I checked both.

In fact the DC story said "allegedly".

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-16-2016, 11:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: I am not suggesting he made it up as I do not know.  It is VERY possible it went down just as he said.

But the only two sources are the local news and The Daily Caller.  Of the two the Caller is HEAVILY biased as a "news" source.  So you can poke a little swarmy fun at other sources but there is zero doubt about DC's reputation.

Could still be 100% true..but I always have qualms about that site.  At least there was a local news story to back it up.  Which is why I checked both.

In fact the DC story said "allegedly".

Interesting... it is almost like you are hesitant to take the person at their word because you think there might be some type of agenda behind it?

Kinda like racial profiling.

I have mentioned this before.  If a black person is told constantly that the only reason a police officer is stopping them in the first place is because the officer is racially profiling them, then that is what every encounter with the police will be.

Considering that racial profiling is against the law and suspects have been known to get lowered sentencing, charges dropped and even monetary gain.  At worst the person might get a little sympathy.  It makes the claims suspect.

The claim of racial profiling could be 100% fact, but we should have caution in believing that a suspect is telling the truth that the officer was racially profiling them.  Maybe the suspect fit the description of a person of interest.  If that description is "Black Male, average height, wearing a Steelers hat" and a cop sees a black male of average height wearing a Steelers hat, the reason the person is getting stopped will probably be because of the Steelers hat.

Can't verify the truth of this, but an ex cop I knew told me this little story:

As he was arresting a suspect, the suspect said, "You are just arresting me because I am black", the cop said jokingly (and unfortunately) "Yep, and because you also fit the other description criteria of who we are looking for."  According to him, the guy was guilty, but due to the cop's remark, the charges were dropped.  As I have said, can't verify the truth of this story, so believe it or don't.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-16-2016, 02:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Whenever someone makes a claim based on something imaginary then I ask for some sort of proof.
 
Making up a situation and then relying on that made up situation to support your position is not a valid way to argue a point.

For example in another thread you claimed that the all claims of racial profiling came from the victims, but it onoly took me a few seconds to prove that wrong.  Sa maybe instead of crying about how it is not fair to make you support your own arguments you should actually do a little research yourself.

It is silly to tell other people that they have to do the research to support YOUR argument.

Stop it.  You haven't proven anything, so you should stop lying about it. 

I am asking you Do you want me to find cases of white people being fired over making racially charged comments or remarks?

All I have asked you to do is show 1 case of a white college professor that has been allowed to stay at the college after saying remarks calling black women THE problem of American Universities.

My argument is that a white man WOULD be fired for making the same comments that Grundy has made. 

Your argument is that he would be protected under free speech.  At least that is what it seems like you are arguing, it is hard to tell really what you are even saying in this thread.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-16-2016, 03:31 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Who was fired?

http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2015/10/black-twitter-strikes-again-man-fired-after-making-racist-comments-about-coworkers-feral-son/

Not only did the guy get fired, but other posters got fired for it.  #Hisnameiscayden was trending on twitter for a while.

That can be said using any combination of people who are not white and victims who are not white.

Hate crimes can be attributed to any number of combinations.  However, you just do read about the police charging a black person who attacked a white person as being guilty of a hate crime.  If the black person makes a comment of the person being gay, then they call it a hate crime.  However that is more to do with the person's sexual orientation and not because of the color of their skin.  The police usually just classify the crime as assault or some other lessor variation.  Even if the suspect were to say that the only reason they attacked was because the victims are white.

Basically if I attack a black man and I use any slur while doing so, I will be arrested for a hate crime.  A black man who attacks me and uses any slur will just be arrested for assault.

You're right, that isn't our country.

So it doesn't matter then?  Cool.


Whites account for 62% of the US and 49% of police deaths. Blacks account for 13% of the US and 30% of police deaths. So, yea, it does support me. However, I'm referring to more that just killing as BLM is focused on inequality with the justice system. Take a look at the likelihood of being arrested, stopped, given jail time over probation, or given the death penalty for black people over white people. It's completely unequal. 

I would say 49% is higher than 30%, so the numbers still back me up.  However it seems we are falling into a stat war, and we are both manipulating them to support our argument.  

Again there is no proof to substantiate the claims that black people are being stopped just for being black.  There are plenty of factors involved in the stopping of a suspect.  Depending on how the stop goes, then the person may or may not be arrested.  I have been stopped in my youth, not once did I think I was being profiled.  However I was never told that I was being profiled when the police stop me, so it may have a reason for me to not perceive any wrong doing.  

I also would like to know how many of those people given jail time over probation are 1st offenders?  You might be given a warning the 1st time, the second time you will go to jail.  

Bfine brought this up a few weeks ago. BLM is focused on issues with the criminal justice system and police. It's like asking why the Ronald McDonald house doesn't focus on providing shelter for mothers of children escaping abusive houses, only shelter for parents of children in the hospital.

Oh I get it, I saw this silly cartoon that explained it.  BLM is showing people the fire.  When others scream All Live Matter, then that is just distracting from the real issue.  I found that to be insulting and completely false.


You're still basically saying it is your opinion that black extremists have a more influential population than white extremists. 

Well, if you listen to Bubba more than you would listen to a Professor, then sure, it is my opinion.  David Duke, not a good example.  He would never be elected today, he would never get a job at a university, today.


Yea, I explained this already.

So you think they a hate group, so the video is invalid?  Is that your stance?  There is no truth to the video because of the source?

I would suggest that you be a little more open to sites and people that you are quick to label.  Truthful information can be found in some of the most unlikely of places.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-16-2016, 08:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://usmclife.com/2016/02/marine-war-hero-famous-iraq-photo-beaten-robbed-gang-black-lives-matter-teens/

Video report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z-jZKN7UHo

Notice how the media didn't use the term "hate crime"?

I wonder if that will change?

Pat, this is what I am talking about in my post.  

[fredtoast]

(02-17-2016, 04:21 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Can't verify the truth of this, but an ex cop I knew told me this little story:

As he was arresting a suspect, the suspect said, "You are just arresting me because I am black", the cop said jokingly (and unfortunately) "Yep, and because you also fit the other description criteria of who we are looking for."  According to him, the guy was guilty, but due to the cop's remark, the charges were dropped.  As I have said, can't verify the truth of this story, so believe it or don't.

This is clearly a complete lie.

The fact that you give it any credibility just proves how much you crave confirmation bias.  You are willing to believe anything that backs up your argument no matter how ridiculous it is.

[fredtoast]

SN quote....

Basically if I attack a black man and I use any slur while doing so, I will be arrested for a hate crime. A black man who attacks me and uses any slur will just be arrested for assault.

Another total and complete lie. almost 20% of all racially motivate hate crimes involve a white person as the victim

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jewish-center-shootings/snapshot-hate-crime-america-numbers-n81521

The racial categories have remained quite constant in share of incidents, aside from a sharp drop in anti-Asian incidents. For the latest year, the share of racial/ethnic incidents is: anti-black, 52 percent; anti-white, 19 percent; anti-Hispanic, 11 percent; anti-other ethnicity, 8 percent; anti-multiple races, 3 percent; anti-Asian, 3 percent; anti-American Indian, 3 percent.



You really need to stop just making up things out of thn air and claim they are true.

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2016, 08:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://usmclife.com/2016/02/marine-war-hero-famous-iraq-photo-beaten-robbed-gang-black-lives-matter-teens/

Video report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z-jZKN7UHo

I don't know what this is supposed ,to prove.  No one here has claimed that there are no acts racism by blacks.  I have admitted this all along.  But I can just as easily find proof of white people committing criminal acts based on racism.

Individual cases prove nothing.  I think everyone knows there are violent racists of all race and color.  The problem is that black people face institutional racism and whites do not.

[BmorePat87]

(02-17-2016, 04:55 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Not only did the guy get fired, but other posters got fired for it.  #Hisnameiscayden was trending on twitter for a while.

So he was fired for posting a picture of a coworker's kid on facebook and calling him feral as his friends posted racist shit? This seems like a little more than "making the black kids angry". The private employer has the right to do this. 

Quote:Hate crimes can be attributed to any number of combinations.  However, you just do read about the police charging a black person who attacked a white person as being guilty of a hate crime.  If the black person makes a comment of the person being gay, then they call it a hate crime.  However that is more to do with the person's sexual orientation and not because of the color of their skin.  The police usually just classify the crime as assault or some other lessor variation.  Even if the suspect were to say that the only reason they attacked was because the victims are white.

The only time I see things labeled by the authorities as hate crimes is when there is evidence that the race/sex/gender/orientation was the motivating factor (like with the Marine who was attacked). Again, not unique to white people.

Quote:Basically if I attack a black man and I use any slur while doing so, I will be arrested for a hate crime.  A black man who attacks me and uses any slur will just be arrested for assault.

You're just speculating your opinion based on your perceived oppression. 

Quote:So it doesn't matter then?  Cool.

Correct, the UK doesn't matter when discussing inequality in the US.

Quote:I would say 49% is higher than 30%, so the numbers still back me up.  However it seems we are falling into a stat war, and we are both manipulating them to support our argument.  

If 13% of the population makes up 30% of the statistic, they're more likely to be shot by police. If 62% of the population makes up only 49% of the statistic, they're less likely to be shot by police. That's not manipulation. 

Quote:Again there is no proof to substantiate the claims that black people are being stopped just for being black.  There are plenty of factors involved in the stopping of a suspect.  Depending on how the stop goes, then the person may or may not be arrested.  I have been stopped in my youth, not once did I think I was being profiled.  However I was never told that I was being profiled when the police stop me, so it may have a reason for me to not perceive any wrong doing.  

Yea, cops don't record whether they stopped them because they're black. What we have, though, are statistics on the percent of the population that they make up, the likelihood of possessing contraband, and the percent of those stopped that are minorities. We have the same figures for arrests, convictions, and sentencing. 

Quote:Oh I get it, I saw this silly cartoon that explained it.  BLM is showing people the fire.  When others scream All Live Matter, then that is just distracting from the real issue.  I found that to be insulting and completely false.

Not the best cartoon nor is that what I am saying.

Quote:Well, if you listen to Bubba more than you would listen to a Professor, then sure, it is my opinion.  David Duke, not a good example.  He would never be elected today, he would never get a job at a university, today.

Again, you're trying to suggest only poor rednecks are members of white supremacist groups. 

Quote:So you think they a hate group, so the video is invalid?  Is that your stance?  There is no truth to the video because of the source?

I answered this.

Quote:I would suggest that you be a little more open to sites and people that you are quick to label.  Truthful information can be found in some of the most unlikely of places.

I would suggest using sources not associated with neo-nazism. 

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-17-2016, 11:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is clearly a complete lie.

The fact that you give it any credibility just proves how much you crave confirmation bias.  You are willing to believe anything that backs up your argument no matter how ridiculous it is.

Sure it is Fred.  It could be a complete lie. 

Well not a complete lie. 

The guy was an ex cop.

I took what he said at face value, nothing more or nothing less. 

The fact that you are so quick to dismiss the credibility just proves how much you crave confirmation bias.  You are willing to dismiss anything that doesn't back up your argument not matter how plausible or likely it is.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-17-2016, 11:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: SN quote....

Basically if I attack a black man and I use any slur while doing so, I will be arrested for a hate crime.  A black man who attacks me and uses any slur will just be arrested for assault.

Another total and complete lie.  almost 20% of all racially motivate hate crimes involve a white person as the victim

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jewish-center-shootings/snapshot-hate-crime-america-numbers-n81521

The racial categories have remained quite constant in share of incidents, aside from a sharp drop in anti-Asian incidents. For the latest year, the share of racial/ethnic incidents is: anti-black, 52 percent; anti-white, 19 percent; anti-Hispanic, 11 percent; anti-other ethnicity, 8 percent; anti-multiple races, 3 percent; anti-Asian, 3 percent; anti-American Indian, 3 percent.



You really need to stop just making up things out of thn air and claim they are true.

These numbers back up what I am saying...

Look at the % of anti black hate crimes.  52%. compared to the 20% of anti white hate crimes.

Again, a black man is less likely to have the "hate" added to the crime.  Even if he is screaming kill all white people.

Go ahead though, call me a liar.  I mean everything else you have called me hasn't worked so far.  Calling me a liar should do the trick.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-17-2016, 11:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know what this is supposed ,to prove.  No one here has claimed that there are no acts racism by blacks.  I have admitted this all along.  But I can just as easily find proof of white people committing criminal acts based on racism.

Individual cases prove nothing.  I think everyone knows there are violent racists of all race and color.  The problem is that black people face institutional racism and whites do not.

Oh I don't know if I would say whites don't face institutional racism...

Affirmative Action is an institutional policy that is designed to help anyone who isn't white.

The institution pushes for more diversity in areas that have whites in them, however they don't push for more diversity in areas that have blacks in them.  You never hear how historically black colleges don't have enough white people attending.  However Harvard and Yale are constantly being pushed to allow for a more diverse group of students.

A white man that attacks a black man is more likely to have the extra charge of a hate crime added to it since it is already at a whopping 52%.

All white student unions are frowned upon and attacked, just look at Towson when some students dared to create an White student union.

All white police officers must be ready to provide evidence that they aren't a racist and that racism had nothing to do with any altercation with a black suspect.

There are more, but this is proof that whites do face institutional racism.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-17-2016, 12:18 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So he was fired for posting a picture of a coworker's kid on facebook and calling him feral as his friends posted racist shit? This seems like a little more than "making the black kids angry". The private employer has the right to do this. 

What he doesn't get freedom of speech?  I know that was Fred who said this, but again, he is fired, Grundy is not.  His was a joke and at no time was he calling for the death of black people.  Grundy has called white males the problem, another professor has called for the utter destruction of the white race.  Both of them are still employed.

The only time I see things labeled by the authorities as hate crimes is when there is evidence that the race/sex/gender/orientation was the motivating factor (like with the Marine who was attacked). Again, not unique to white people.

Yet so far the media has yet to call the Marine who was attacked a hate crime.  

You're just speculating your opinion based on your perceived oppression. 

I am speculating.  However it isn't my opinion and I am not perceiving any oppression.  Now that we have the Marine I don't have to speculate anymore. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/decorated-military-veteran-allegedly-attacked-064214001.html

No calling it a hate crime, just a crime and a robbery.

Correct, the UK doesn't matter when discussing inequality in the US.

You are wrong, when discussing racial politics, I find it very important to see how whites are treated worldwide and not be so narrow minded.  This is why I laugh at the people on here, they really like to control the arguments and when you factor how whites are treated worldwide it greatly hurts their stance that whites have all of this supposed power.

If 13% of the population makes up 30% of the statistic, they're more likely to be shot by police. If 62% of the population makes up only 49% of the statistic, they're less likely to be shot by police. That's not manipulation. 

Look, it is manipulation.  49% is higher than 30%.  That means police have killed more whites than they do blacks.  Do you agree that blacks commit more crimes than whites?  I can show statistics that would support that they do.

Yea, cops don't record whether they stopped them because they're black. What we have, though, are statistics on the percent of the population that they make up, the likelihood of possessing contraband, and the percent of those stopped that are minorities. We have the same figures for arrests, convictions, and sentencing. 

Again with the statistics.  You even state that the people MORE likely to be possessing contraband are minorities.  So who do you stop?  An old white lady?  Or the young black man?  If looking for contraband you would stop the one who is more likely carrying.  If they aren't then no problem.  If they are then that is what led to the arrest, not the color of skin.  It is almost as if you would rather them stop the old lady who isn't carrying anything illegal over the black man who is.


Not the best cartoon nor is that what I am saying.

You're right the cartoon was terrible.  I understood what they were saying, but again, it was insulting and completely false.


Again, you're trying to suggest only poor rednecks are members of white supremacist groups. 

No I am not trying to suggest that only poor rednecks are members of white supremacist groups.  What I am suggesting is that anyone who openly comes out and states that they are pro white today (not 20 -30 years ago), wouldn't be allowed near a college campus or be elected.  They couldn't freely share their views without the immediate backlash that their views would have.


I answered this.

You haven't done a great job at it.  Again the video makes no mention of Jews or Hitler or anything remotely antisemitic.  That was you that did that.  Just like the video has said and I have repeated.  The reason there are no voices for white men is because any group formed will automatically be labeled as you have done.  I have even explained how easily one can be called an antisemite, but that hasn't stopped you from continuing to call these people neo-nazis.

I would suggest using sources not associated with neo-nazism. 

The source isn't important if the message is truthful.  In the video, did they say anything about neo-nazism?  Did they reference Hitler?  They did put the star of David to show one guy as a Jew, and they did say that another Jew was posing as a white man who was wondering why more women weren't in support of Bahar Mustafa's kill all white men message.  You seem to have more of an issue with RB sharing their thoughts on YT, than you do with college professors sharing their thoughts on college campuses.

The reference to "Making the Black Kids Angry" is a book "Don't Make The Black Kids Angry" and there is another "White Girl Bleed A Lot".  Both books are recommended by Thomas Sowell and Allen West and have been written by Colin Flaherty.  I am sure you have heard of him.