Why would the United States government attack its own citizens?

[Benton]

I'll preface this by saying I don't own stores of weapons or MREs. I don't think the government is coming for me.

But I do understand some of where "those people" come from. I grew up (and still live) near Land Between the Lakes. The short of it, back in the 1960s the Tennessee Valley Authority wanted to experiment with making a recreation area. They got friends in the federal government to seize more than 100,000 acres of land and kick the residents off. Many were removed forcibly. They played around with the land they took over, but really never got things lined out and eventually just turned the land over to the forest service. Recently, the USFS decided it was going to just raze the area, but told the public it wasn't. It's been a big area of contention for the people who lived there or who use the public property.

Those people don't trust government intervention, much like Native Americans don't. Much like those who had relatives interred during our concentration camps during WWII. Much like the growing population of people imprisoned by a broken justice system.

[Devils Advocate]

Depends on who you ask, Fred.

I'm sure Randy Weaver would offer a different answer than say .... GodHatesBengals.

[6andcounting]

lol

[*michaelsean*]

(09-11-2015, 05:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: I remember when they said Bush would have another 9/11 size incident so he could cancel election and stay in power too.

So many dumb people.

And we would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling kids. (No idea how to post associated pic from my phone.)

[Brownshoe]

I always thought the people were afraid of the government taking away too many rights, or if they instate a crazy law like how the nazis did with the Jews. I mean I knew there were some nuts out there who thought they would imprison us, but I thought they were the vast minority.

[Benton]

(09-12-2015, 04:26 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I always thought the people were afraid of the government taking away too many rights, or if they instate a crazy law like how the nazis did with the Jews. I mean I knew there were some nuts out there who thought they would imprison us, but I thought they were the vast minority.

Generally I think the fear is the imprisonment or removal of rights will be permanent. We give up our freedoms from time to time with the expectation they'll be returned.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-11-2015, 10:04 PM)6andcounting Wrote: lol

People always bring this up, and it's a very true and valid point.  Jet fuel CANNOT MELT steel beams.  What it can do, is heat up steel members to the point of compromising their structural integrity.  Those who think that the beam has to melt for the structure to fail are mo-mos.

[fredtoast]

(09-11-2015, 09:06 PM)Benton Wrote: I'll preface this by saying I don't own stores of weapons or MREs. I don't think the government is coming for me.

But I do understand some of where "those people" come from. I grew up (and still live) near Land Between the Lakes. The short of it, back in the 1960s the Tennessee Valley Authority wanted to experiment with making a recreation area. They got friends in the federal government to seize more than 100,000 acres of land and kick the residents off. Many were removed forcibly. They played around with the land they took over, but really never got things lined out and eventually just turned the land over to the forest service. Recently, the USFS decided it was going to just raze the area, but told the public it wasn't. It's been a big area of contention for the people who lived there or who use the public property.

Those people don't trust government intervention, much like Native Americans don't. Much like those who had relatives interred during our concentration camps during WWII. Much like the growing population of people imprisoned by a broken justice system.

I actually brought this up in another thread where someone was whining about police officers confiscating cash without charging people.  I don't agree with police doing that, but at least people have the right to go to court and get that money back.  And most people who go to the trouble to contest it do get their money back if they are not guilty of anything.  But with Imminent Domain the person whose property is seized doesn't have a lot of recourse. Courts have up held multiple cases of the government taking property through imminent domain purely for private business development.  The seizure was justified because the development was in the best economic interest of the entire community.

That is a very dangerous power the government has that a lot of people don't talk about. 

People who have their property seized do get paid for it, but that does not make it right in all these cases.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-12-2015, 11:27 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: People always bring this up, and it's a very true and valid point.  Jet fuel CANNOT MELT steel beams.  What it can do, is heat up steel members to the point of compromising their structural integrity. Those who think that the beam has to melt for the structure to fail are mo-mos.

Yep

[Rotobeast]

(09-12-2015, 11:27 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: People always bring this up, and it's a very true and valid point.  Jet fuel CANNOT MELT steel beams.  What it can do, is heat up steel members to the point of compromising their structural integrity.  Those who think that the beam has to melt for the structure to fail are mo-mos.

And technically the components are there for thermite.
I just don't know if it is chemically possible for the reaction to take place.
Maybe someone brighter than I can chime in ?

[6andcounting]

(09-12-2015, 04:46 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Maybe someone brighter than I can chime in ?

In other words, you just want anybody at all to reply to your comment.

[Rotobeast]

(09-12-2015, 05:36 PM)6andcounting Wrote: In other words, you just want anybody at all to reply to your comment.

Yes and Thank you.

[JustWinBaby]

(09-12-2015, 04:46 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: And technically the components are there for thermite.
I just don't know if it is chemically possible for the reaction to take place.
Maybe someone brighter than I can chime in ?

Doesn't matter.  Hot air expands, and it's going to blow out windows.  Concrete also contains trapped air, which when superheated is going to expand in explosive manner.  That's what people thought looked like thermite or explosive demolition.

The entire 9-11 conspiracy theory, like most CTs, is built around rejecting plausible explanations with less than 100% certainty in favor of wild speculation with little-to-no supporting proof - you can't prove to me the building WASN'T demo'd, therefore I reject all other explanations.

[Benton]

(09-12-2015, 02:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I actually brought this up in another thread where someone was whining about police officers confiscating cash without charging people.  I don't agree with police doing that, but at least people have the right to go to court and get that money back.  And most people who go to the trouble to contest it do get their money back if they are not guilty of anything.  But with Imminent Domain the person whose property is seized doesn't have a lot of recourse. Courts have up held multiple cases of the government taking property through imminent domain purely for private business development.  The seizure was justified because the development was in the best economic interest of the entire community.

That is a very dangerous power the government has that a lot of people don't talk about. 

People who have their property seized do get paid for it, but that does not make it right in all these cases.  

I understand the need for imminent domain, but sometimes it's ridiculous. About 40ish years ago they ran a parkway through here. A friend had her family farm divided by the parkway, the house on one side with road access and the majority of the property — more than 100 acres — cut off with no access. There was no reimbursement since, according to the state, there could potentially be access some day.

Those sorts of things are different than tin foil hatters who think Bush masterminded 9-11, but they do create a reasonable distrust.