Will: Quarantine Trump

[Matt_Crimson]

(05-06-2017, 12:30 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What did I just write?

"If He does good I hope He does get re-elected."

Kinda explains why you don't understand, "I don't stand by anything."

What is it that I'm not understanding?

[Matt_Crimson]

(05-06-2017, 08:28 AM)hollodero Wrote: This question of yours is so moot. And the main reason is that you don't even have clear conception of what "doing pretty well" could mean. To Trump supporters, he is already doing pretty well. There's no fact, no data, no outside voice even that could shake that opinion, so there is no measuring stick. That's what's so surprinsingly effective with that whole Trump movement, that the refereeing function of truth is no longer part of their conversation. News are fake, facts are not telling the whole story, Trump tweets it like it is, you just need to believe it. To feel it, one might say. And many of you do, for many my best guess is because he's not a Democrat, but there might be nobler reasons I don't see.

In 4 years some will still believe he's a tremendous guy shaking things up and standing up for the little white guy or whatever Trump tweets out. The rest of the world (meaning the non-Trumpist in the USA and literally the rest of the world) will see him like we already see him, as an incompetent, dumb shrewd mannerless egomaniac that dreams of dictatorship. We see hundreds of pretty objective examples the Trump supporter won't acknowledge. 
So I say he won't do pretty well and that I would be shocked if he did. Given his described assets and/or the lack thereof. But that would be by my measures. If you as a nation think he did pretty well, sure, go for him again in 2020 and turn from an admired country into a ridiculed and feared one. That's the pointless answer to a pointless question.

Admired? 

People in other countries think we're a bunch of war mongering, racist, overly patriotic, snobby, greedy, uneducated no good McDonalds devouring fat slobs that think the world is supposed to be just like us. I lived in Canada for 7 years and never heard anything good about America except how much they love to go to Florida beaches. But they loved to tell me how stupid, lazy and how much better American's think they are than everyone else.

[Dill]

(05-06-2017, 01:08 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Admired? 

People in other countries think we're a bunch of war mongering, racist, overly patriotic, snobby, greedy, uneducated no good McDonalds devouring fat slobs that think the world is supposed to be just like us. I lived in Canada for 7 years and never heard anything good about America except how much they love to go to Florida beaches. But they loved to tell me how stupid, lazy and how much better American's think they are than everyone else.

I don't believe they said all Americans are fat.

But do we want them afraid of us?

[Matt_Crimson]

(05-06-2017, 01:26 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't believe they said all Americans are fat.

No, just the ones that go to the beach.

Quote:But do we want them afraid of us?

Yes we want them afraid. Very afraid muahahaha.

[Dill]

(05-06-2017, 01:48 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Yes we want them afraid. Very afraid muahahaha.

LOL well, they are going to be!

[hollodero]

(05-06-2017, 01:08 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Admired? 

People in other countries think we're a bunch of war mongering, racist, overly patriotic, snobby, greedy, uneducated no good McDonalds devouring fat slobs that think the world is supposed to be just like us. I lived in Canada for 7 years and never heard anything good about America except how much they love to go to Florida beaches. But they loved to tell me how stupid, lazy and how much better American's think they are than everyone else.

Well ok, that is basically true. But I think you need to put that in context. We admire american technology, american culture, we more or less exclusively listen to your music, watch your films and TV series. We "admire" your militaristic strength, it gives us a feeling of being protected by a big brother. We admire american lifestyle, even if we refute certain aspects of it. The admiration I meant goes deeper than the critizism on the surface, towards American people.
And don't ask what we think of other folk... usually even way harsher things then the ones you mentioned with some valid reason. At least you don't eat frogs or bang our women or take our jobs or...

But words are words, you might not feel admired and have understandable reason for that. To me this was the least important aspect of my response.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-06-2017, 08:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well ok, that is basically true. But I think you need to put that in context. We admire american technology, american culture, we more or less exclusively listen to your music, watch your films and TV series. We "admire" your militaristic strength, it gives us a feeling of being protected by a big brother. We admire american lifestyle, even if we refute certain aspects of it. The admiration I meant goes deeper than the critizism on the surface, towards American people.
And don't ask what we think of other folk... usually even way harsher things then the ones you mentioned with some valid reason. At least you don't eat frogs or bang our women or take our jobs or...

But words are words, you might not feel admired and have understandable reason for that. To me this was the least important aspect of my response.

We do eat frogs.

[*wildcats forever*]

(05-06-2017, 08:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: We do eat frogs.

[Dill]

(05-06-2017, 09:37 PM)wildcats forever Wrote:

Ha ha, I remember that cartoon. It first appeared in a National Lampoon 30+ years ago.

[Dill]

(05-06-2017, 08:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well ok, that is basically true. But I think you need to put that in context. We admire american technology, american culture, we more or less exclusively listen to your music, watch your films and TV series. We "admire" your militaristic strength, it gives us a feeling of being protected by a big brother. We admire american lifestyle, even if we refute certain aspects of it. The admiration I meant goes deeper than the critizism on the surface, towards American people.
And don't ask what we think of other folk... usually even way harsher things then the ones you mentioned with some valid reason. At least you don't eat frogs or bang our women or take our jobs or...

But words are words, you might not feel admired and have understandable reason for that. To me this was the least important aspect of my response.

Hollo, part of the American instinct that leans our foreign policy to the right is that YOU ALL hate us for no good reason. You are jealous of our freedom or because we have worked hard to earn what we have. And you (well, mainly the French) haven't thanked us enough for ridding the world of Nazi's and giving your country back and  fixing Europe. This hatred-of-us is monolithic, ungrounded, universal and so unworthy of response--other than our fantasies about how elite and cultured you snobs all think you are.

But it helps our politicians simplify foreign policy proposals and win votes. Why do we need to listen to haters when "suggesting" to our European friends how they should arrange their alliances and trade deals?  Why would we consider European healthcare policies or learn automotive engineering from people who work less than 40 hrs a week, take month-long vacations, and don't appreciate our entrepreneurial genius? We can be pretty sure our culture is really  better than yours and we know we are doing good all round the world when we see others jealous of our excellence.

However, you are undermining this simplifying and unifying instinct with your nuance and considered appreciation of those aspects our culture we ourselves admire, and your argument implicitly establishes this standard for us as well.  Which is pretty unfair if you think about it, since you all tend to know more about us than we know about you.  And you cap it off by explaining how the admiration goes deeper, to the people themselves, and this is not indiscriminate for there are others you manifestly do not admire.  I finished your post unable to dismiss Austrians as jealous haters who don't really understand us. 

Now it might seem counter-intuitive, but positive and balanced evaluations of Americans such as yours might weaken our national security were they to spread and, god forbid, destroy our traditional stereotypes of the "Other"--those non-Americans out there. Americans themselves might begin demanding more information about the peoples and countries we are meddling with before supporting our national efforts to re-arrange other parts of the world. What if a lot of "those people" actually like us and our culture? What if they think they have same enemies as we do and see themselves as on our side in whatever global battles we are fighting, military or economic.  This would be less alarming in regards to Europe, but positively destructive of our foreign policy in the Middle East and Asia were Americans, as a group, to begin viewing "enemies" in those regions with similar caution and nuance.  I shudder to think the consequences if a Syrian or Chinese poster popped up here  talking about his favorite American rap artist and how great the McDonald's Big Breakfast is.

So I must ask you to dial back the informed nuance a bit on future posts, Hollo. Let's contain it on this forum. On the next thread maybe criticize us for our guns and crime rate or something. We like a violent game called football--maybe that means our culture is more ready to violence? Our coffee is pretty watery, isn't it?    

[Rotobeast]

(05-05-2017, 09:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: I voted for Bush in 2000 hoping he really was a fiscal conservative who understood we also need to be compassionate to those less fortunate.

See....you've bee a Libertarian, for a while.

(05-05-2017, 01:34 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Insert lucie idiocracy comment here.

The countdown has begun.
You won't have to wait very long.

[hollodero]

(05-06-2017, 08:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: We do eat frogs.

You have a problem with latent French heritage, obviously. First John Kerry, now this. Just leave the snails alone will you.

Disgusting.

[hollodero]

(05-07-2017, 04:04 PM)Dill Wrote: So I must ask you to dial back the informed nuance a bit on future posts, Hollo. Let's contain it on this forum. On the next thread maybe criticize us for our guns and crime rate or something. We like a violent game called football--maybe that means our culture is more ready to violence? Our coffee is pretty watery, isn't it?    

Oh yes, I can do that, my internet persona is surprisingly mutable. You want to get negged, no problem. I don't even have to lie about it. Mr. Matt_Crimson said it best actually: 

"People in other countries think we're a bunch of war mongering, racist, overly patriotic, snobby, greedy, uneducated no good McDonalds devouring fat slobs that think the world is supposed to be just like us." 

Let me add to that. First, we actually don't think you're overly racist, it's the one thing where we all have our own dirt to take care about. You're also not so much war mongering as strike mongering. A do something, drone something policy, God forbid an American gets in harms way, better accidentally target civilians and some of our friends occasionally. You bring your freedom to people right alongside his twin waterboarding, use it on terrorists and then potential terrorists. You bring democracy right alongside a place like Guantanamo, and there's nothing much to it to you. You support the most gruesome Sheikh as long as he gives you oil. A country not grasping the concept of "If you don't want to be seen as the imperial devil, don't act like the imperial devil". You keep living the double standard and mainly keep you level of public self-love upheld. Good guys! Good guys! A mantra which is quite ridiculous. Yes, you're overly patriotic, you color the world in your flag's colours, then look at it and feel "USA! USA!" You keep believing in fairy tales, too. Your founders are the old myths and legends from which newer tales like American Dreams spring, or the American exceptionalism, while indeed your country turns fat, dumb, ignorant and crime-infested. There are clearly other places in the western hemisphere, namely all of them, where major problems are solved way more successfully. Still you wouldn't change, see the world as periphery on the globe's edges and truly wouldn't know the most basic things about them unless some celebrity happens to talk about it. You also have two political sides that just cannot keep a meaningful conversation without going at each others alleged flaws and turning the debate into an uninspiring bitchfight, respectfully disagreeing my ass. And you have Trump now, who is the most embarrassing figure on top of a state since probably Nero. For those who don't know who Nero is, you're quite uneducated sometimes, he's the self-loving infantile one that ended up setting Rome on fire. We seriously have to wonder if a too significant part of the US society is on its way into decadence. Let me add that my urine is closer to beer than the stuff Americans drink. I know Cincinnati is an exception, but there's still that whole chicken dance world record thing, the eternal shame of 1994, so who can take that region seriously. You in the US just have humans everywhere, ad humans act awful all the time, especially as a group. Oh, I haven't mentioned the gun laws. You're crazy giving them to just anyone, crazy, so many of you people are not remotely responsible enough for handling those. 

Satisfied? Crude enough?

Now sure. All of this is true and it isn't. I only see through slits, I mainly take the most convenient to look through, like films and celebrities and TV. I happen to love american football, I like many of your principles a lot, like freedom of speech, I think most Americans are decent and perfectly fine people. Your society does allow and creates brilliance. Your technology enrichens our lives. US entertainment skills are unmatched, we couldn't turn to Finland for that, their idea of a joke is pissing a sad clown into the snow. Our action scenes would consist of Gerard Depardieu rolling down a stair. You have the clear disadvantage that we know you better than most other folk. What could there be said about the Spanish, I don't know too much about Spain. Eye- and nosewitnesses confirmed that they all piss in their streets, but who knew. If you did that, we'd know. My own country is duuuumb, you wouldn't believe what comes out of people's mouths and minds if you understood. Our national pride depends on things like people jumping very far with skis. We loathe Germans, but we admire them at the same time too, without them we'd be nothing. Our inferiority complex roots in our inferiority. But this is true, but still nothing's so easy to say. What's easy to say is that my presence obviously diverts from the thread's original topic. Sorry for that.

[Vas Deferens]

(05-07-2017, 06:10 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: The countdown has begun.
You won't have to wait very long.

going to be like Y2K around here.  we might need to do some MYBB load tests and put in some vulnerability patches.  the war of new ideological threads is nigh.

[Rotobeast]

(05-08-2017, 03:15 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: going to be like Y2K around here.  we might need to do some MYBB load tests and put in some vulnerability patches.  the war of new ideological threads is nigh.

[Dill]

(05-08-2017, 04:13 AM)hollodero Wrote: Satisfied? Crude enough?

Well, to tell you the truth, Hollo. It started out badly.

(05-08-2017, 04:13 AM)hollodero Wrote: Let me add to that. First, we actually don't think you're overly racist, it's the one thing where we all have our own dirt to take care about.

WAAAYY to much balance. Very hard to "other" someone talking like that.

But then . . . .

(05-08-2017, 04:13 AM)hollodero Wrote: You're also not so much war mongering as strike mongering. A do something, drone something policy, God forbid an American gets in harms way, better accidentally target civilians and some of our friends occasionally. You bring your freedom to people right alongside his twin waterboarding, use it on terrorists and then potential terrorists. You bring democracy right alongside a place like Guantanamo, and there's nothing much to it to you. You support the most gruesome Sheikh as long as he gives you oil. A country not grasping the concept of "If you don't want to be seen as the imperial devil, don't act like the imperial devil". . . . . you're overly patriotic, you color the world in your flag's colours, then look at it and feel "USA! USA!" You keep believing in fairy tales, too. Your founders are the old myths and legends from which newer tales like American Dreams spring, or the American exceptionalism, while indeed your country turns fat, dumb, ignorant and crime-infested. There are clearly other places in the western hemisphere, namely all of them, where major problems are solved way more successfully. . . . For those who don't know who Nero is, you're quite uneducated sometimes, he's the self-loving infantile one that ended up setting Rome on fire. We seriously have to wonder if a too significant part of the US society is on its way into decadence. Let me add that my urine is closer to beer than the stuff Americans drink. I know Cincinnati is an exception, but there's still that whole chicken dance world record thing, the eternal shame of 1994, so who can take that region seriously. You in the US just have humans everywhere, ad humans act awful all the time, especially as a group. Oh, I haven't mentioned the gun laws. You're crazy giving them to just anyone, crazy, so many of you people are not remotely responsible enough for handling those. 

"WHAAAAT???" I thought as I read this.  He does not see how Guantanamo was all about freedom? (You can't explain it really. You just have to understand. Maybe you have to BE American; a real American and not just a naturalized citizen.)

And we water board to protect Austria too, you know--but are we thanked? Some one is worried about the terrorists' feelings? 

Imperial devils--does he see us the way the terrorists do? DOES HE KNOW WHICH SIDE HE IS ON?

And then I saw colors spelled "colours"--and that put me over the top; the British empire is over. It's our language now.

I slipped into complete "patriot mode" and "tch-tched" the rest of the way through, bewildered at how Europeans could misunderstand so exceptional a people. By the time I reached the wholesale attack on our cultural foundation--gun laws--I was myself ready shut out anything any or our European "friends" had to say about the world's beacon of democracy.

So this section is definitely a keeper, Hollo. And if we just substitute the name "Ahmed" for "Hollodero" as the poster, we can multiply the negative effect, I think.

Unfortunately, though, you fall back into your old habits at the last. The effusive praise followed by self-deprecation totally undermines righteous patriotic anger.

(05-08-2017, 04:13 AM)hollodero Wrote: Now sure. All of this is true and it isn't. I only see through slits, I mainly take the most convenient to look through, like films and celebrities and TV. I happen to love american football, I like many of your principles a lot, like freedom of speech, I think most Americans are decent and perfectly fine people. Your society does allow and creates brilliance. Your technology enrichens our lives. US entertainment skills are unmatched, we couldn't turn to Finland for that, their idea of a joke is pissing a sad clown into the snow. Our action scenes would consist of Gerard Depardieu rolling down a stair. You have the clear disadvantage that we know you better than most other folk.

I think we can overlook this, however, given the brilliant take down above. Were this to see widespread circulation, and from "Ahmed," our entire foreign policy apparatus would be paralyzed, drones sitting idly in hangers and on ship decks.

PS That was masterful. Now I am wondering what your German writing looks like.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-08-2017, 02:48 AM)hollodero Wrote: You have a problem with latent French heritage, obviously. First John Kerry, now this. Just leave the snails alone will you.

Disgusting.

Well, during college I was so broke I once collected sea snails and figured I'd cook some up like escargot. Problem was they were so damn small I probably burnt more calories trying to get them out of the shell than I took in eating them.

So it was back to 5 for $1 chicken pot pies and $2.99 a case Meister Brau. Ugh.