the abolish ICE movement

[*michaelsean*]

(07-09-2018, 01:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Luckily no violence this weekend thanks to LMPD and civility on both sides. Dare I say there were some good people on both sides.

WTS, the Occupy Ice folks might have an encounter with LMPD if they continue to ignore requests to comply. Seems they are violating the civil dsabilities and and chose not to apply for a permit:
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2018/07/07/city-could-shut-down-occupy-ice-protest/765751002/

Well someone doesn't understand civil disobedience. If you refuse to get a permit in a situation where a permit can be acquired, then you are just a moron.

[GMDino]

(07-09-2018, 01:31 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well someone doesn't understand civil disobedience.  If you refuse to get a permit in a situation where a permit can be acquired, then you are just a moron.

Need to follow the law where applicable.

But...

Isn't it weird that people need a permit from the government to protest the government?

[*michaelsean*]

(07-09-2018, 02:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Need to follow the law where applicable.

But...

Isn't it weird that people need a permit from the government to protest the government?

Different governments at least.  

[GMDino]

(07-09-2018, 03:07 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Different governments at least.  

Still...

There are special areas designated when you want to protest the POTUS too...far away from where he will be.

All I'm saying is I can understand why protestors want to be seen and heard and sometimes that might involve not getting permission.  Then they have to pay the legal price.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-09-2018, 03:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: Still...

There are special areas designated when you want to protest the POTUS too...far away from where he will be.

All I'm saying is I can understand why protestors want to be seen and heard and sometimes that might involve not getting permission.  Then they have to pay the legal price.

Right and civil disobedience would be going to those places you are not allowed.  Going to a place you are allowed and not obtaining a permit is just stupidity.  

[Millhouse]

(07-09-2018, 01:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Luckily no violence this weekend thanks to LMPD and civility on both sides. Dare I say there were some good people on both sides.

WTS, the Occupy Ice folks might have an encounter with LMPD if they continue to ignore requests to comply. Seems they are violating the civil dsabilities and and chose not to apply for a permit:
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2018/07/07/city-could-shut-down-occupy-ice-protest/765751002/

In other Louisville news I saw on the front page of CNN, Mitch McConnel was harrassed at a local restaurant in which he left or was leaving. Protestors were called in or something like that after he was spotted there, and some were yelling to him to abolish ICE among other things, like one saying 'We know where you live' or to that effect.

Thanks to Maxine Waters and her rhetoric (Trump's rhetoric doesn't excuse hers), this kind of 'protest' will be happening more and more I bet. And eventually a liberal nutjob will go too far, like the one guy shooting up the Congressional baseball practice.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2018, 05:10 PM)Millhouse Wrote: In other Louisville news I saw on the front page of CNN, Mitch McConnel was harrassed at a local restaurant in which he left or was leaving. Protestors were called in or something like that after he was spotted there, and some were yelling to him to abolish ICE among other things, like one saying 'We know where you live' or to that effect.

Thanks to Maxine Waters and her rhetoric (Trump's rhetoric doesn't excuse hers), this kind of 'protest' will be happening more and more I bet. And eventually a liberal nutjob will go too far, like the one guy shooting up the Congressional baseball practice.

Yes, he was also called Turtle Head. This is the 2nd time in about a week he has been harassed leaving an eating establishment.

[Benton]

(07-09-2018, 04:17 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Right and civil disobedience would be going to those places you are not allowed.  Going to a place you are allowed and not obtaining a permit is just stupidity.  

Agreed.

Civil disobedience is not a bad thing, but keep it civil. If a municipality allows protesting/demonstration in the general area you're wanting, take the necessary steps.

It's not likely to happen regularly on a large scale, but it's not unheard of for multiple groups wanting to protest completely unrelated things to show up at the same high traffic spot. It's not like PETA and abortion activists match calendars. Permitting prevents some of that headache, and the headache for agencies that have to handle the traffic.

(07-09-2018, 05:10 PM)Millhouse Wrote: In other Louisville news I saw on the front page of CNN, Mitch McConnel was harrassed at a local restaurant in which he left or was leaving. Protestors were called in or something like that after he was spotted there, and some were yelling to him to abolish ICE among other things, like one saying 'We know where you live' or to that effect.

Thanks to Maxine Waters and her rhetoric (Trump's rhetoric doesn't excuse hers), this kind of 'protest' will be happening more and more I bet. And eventually a liberal nutjob will go too far, like the one guy shooting up the Congressional baseball practice.

(07-09-2018, 05:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, he was also called Turtle Head. This is the 2nd time in about a week he has been harassed leaving an eating establishment.

Good. Not that someone is being insulted, but that a lawmaker is hearing from the public.  I don't think it's always the case, but lawmakers — especially the long-time ones — live in ivory towers. The calls, letters and emails that come in one way or another don't usually make it directly to them. And even when they do, they aren't always from actual people, but groups/lobbyists/companies who can bombard lawmakers with fake form letters.

[Millhouse]

(07-05-2018, 09:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I will say they are being treated as any fringe movement should. They had a piece about them on the Louisville news here about them sitting outside in a call to action of whatever. Those folks were hating life with the 106 degree heat index, but they say they have no plans to leave anytime soon. I found it amusing.

This fringe movement is close to introducing a bill in Congress to abolish ICE.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/democrats-ready-abolish-ice-legislation/2018/07/10/37b420d0-8478-11e8-8553-a3ce89036c78_story.html?utm_term=.86da31a74c14

Politically speaking, they are about as dumb as a box of rocks. If you are Democrat and want power back, this is bad move as it will play into the hands of Republicans.

[GMDino]

(07-11-2018, 02:26 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This fringe movement is close to introducing a bill in Congress to abolish ICE.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/democrats-ready-abolish-ice-legislation/2018/07/10/37b420d0-8478-11e8-8553-a3ce89036c78_story.html?utm_term=.86da31a74c14

Politically speaking, they are about as dumb as a box of rocks.  If you are Democrat and want power back, this is bad move as it will play into the hands of Republicans.

It will play into their propaganda and fear mongering...probaly because no one will read the bill, just form opinions on the title.

Quote:In an interview, Pocan (D-Wis.) said the legislation would allow immigration laws to be enforced but put an end to a 15-year-old agency that had diverged from its original mission.



“The ICE brand has been so damaged by the president that it can no longer accomplish its original mission,” Pocan said. “Even ICE agents recognize that ICE doesn’t do what it was intended to.”


For months, the “abolish ICE” slogan has been increasingly embraced by left-wing activists and insurgent Democratic candidates for Congress. On June 25, after days of news stories about immigrant families being separated in detention centers, Pocan said he would introduce a bill to end ICE. One day later, Democratic congressional candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez scored a primary upset in New York, dramatically raising the profile of the ICE issue.


While Republicans have conflated “abolish ICE” with a campaign to create “open borders,” Pocan’s legislation would not alter the nation’s immigration laws. If passed, the bill would sunset ICE within one year, and immediately create a bipartisan group to work out a replacement.


The White House would have no role in the group, which would consist of eight members appointed by congressional leaders and minority party leaders, and nine members from the “major civil society and immigrants’ rights organizations and individuals directly impacted by ICE practices.”

That group would be required to “identify all essential functions of ICE that uphold the Constitution,” then “identify the appropriate federal agencies that shall be tasked with executing activities such as combating financial crimes, cybercrimes, trade fraud, human trafficking and drug smuggling.” It would be up to the commission to “approve the agency’s suitability for that function based on such agency’s track record of transparency.”


The legislation also would ensure that “total federal employment is not reduced with the abolition of ICE” but would prioritize jobs that deal with the “legal, health, and social-service needs of detained individuals.” And it would give the commission a kind of “truth and reconciliation” mission, asking it to study “failures to comply with congressional oversight requirements, violations of constitutional protections and U.S. laws, failures to comply with agency policies and directives, violations of human rights, and any other longstanding patterns of medical neglect, solitary confinement, wrongful death, and other abuses for which ICE is wholly or partially responsible.”



After reviewing the main points of the bill, several advocates for abolishing ICE said Pocan had addressed most of their concerns.

[Millhouse]

(07-11-2018, 03:21 PM)GMDino Wrote: It will play into their propaganda and fear mongering...probaly because no one will read the bill, just form opinions on the title.

By Pocan's logic, they should also abolish the EPA because it also has diverged from protecting the environment under Trump.

[fredtoast]

(07-11-2018, 05:52 PM)Millhouse Wrote: By Pocan's logic, they should also abolish the EPA because it also has diverged from protecting the environment under Trump.

That would be fine with me if that is what it takes to create a new agency to protect the environment properly.

But the big difference is that the EPA is just doing nothing while ICE is being used as a tool of the administration.

[GMDino]

(07-11-2018, 05:52 PM)Millhouse Wrote: By Pocan's logic, they should also abolish the EPA because it also has diverged from protecting the environment under Trump.

Would that entail creating a new agency, untouchable by the POTUS that could do their job?

[*bfine32*]

Of all the things the Left supports sanctuary cities may be the most perverse.

https://turnto10.com/news/nation-world/ice-man-arrested-in-deadly-tulare-county-california-rampage-was-deported-twice-before

Quote:“Gustavo Garcia would have been turned over to ICE officials. That’s how we’ve always done it, day in and day out. But after SB 54, we no longer have the power to do that. Under the new state law, we must have a “federally signed warrant” in order to do that. We didn’t honor the detainer because state law doesn’t allow us to,” Boudreaux said.

[GMDino]

(12-21-2018, 12:22 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of all the things the Left supports sanctuary cities may be the most perverse.

https://turnto10.com/news/nation-world/ice-man-arrested-in-deadly-tulare-county-california-rampage-was-deported-twice-before

Damn criminals breaking the law!

We need to abolish parole too...some people who get out might commit crimes again!  And if a few do it we must punish them all. 

[*bfine32*]

(12-21-2018, 08:14 AM)GMDino Wrote: Damn criminals breaking the law!

We need to abolish parole too...some people who get out might commit crimes again!  And if a few do it we must punish them all. 

Nah, I think we can turn parolees over to the Feds in local Law Enforcement deems it necessary.

Who said anything about punishing them all? You're doing it again.

[GMDino]

(12-21-2018, 12:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nah, I think we can turn parolees over to the Feds in local Law Enforcement deems it necessary.

Who said anything about punishing them all? You're doing it again.

Criticizing Sanctuary cities because of this incident is saying we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Just like saying if a parolee commits another crime we should eliminate paroles.

[*bfine32*]

(12-21-2018, 12:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: Criticizing Sanctuary cities because of this incident is saying we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Just like saying if a parolee commits another crime we should eliminate paroles.

Nah, I criticize the practice of sanctuary cities. This was merely an example to support my stance.

For instance you're against paroles. Wouldn't you link a case or 2 to support your stance?

[GMDino]

(12-21-2018, 01:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nah, I criticize the practice of sanctuary cities. This was merely an example to support my stance.

For instance you're against paroles. Wouldn't you link a case or 2 to support your stance?

Nah, I'm not against paroles.  I used an example of something similar where the actions of a few could be used to punish all.

Look to the Willie Horton ad for your sides approach to "using examples".