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More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +--- Thread: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests (/Thread-More-largely-peaceful-Portland-protests) |
RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - GMDino - 08-29-2020 (08-28-2020, 09:58 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Incorrect. By definition that is impossible. Here's an idea: Take a gun to a neighboring state. Tell the police, when they thank you for being there to help them, that you are going to defend a random building. Then when someone else who is legally carrying a weapon asks what you are doing argue with them and shoot them. Or go inside a bank to help the security guards and do the same. The guy was looking for trouble and found it then cried self defense. Just like all the other cowards who play cop and end up scared and kill someone because they are actually prepared to do the job. In this case I am sad. Sad for the kid who went down that path, sad that we live in a country where there is a path that says carrying a gun makes you tough and sad that people are defending him as if he did nothing wrong other than be attacked when he put himself in that spot because he wanted to "defend" something. The only way to defend something is if it is being attacked. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Dill - 08-29-2020 (08-28-2020, 11:29 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: *As far as thriving off of one income, I think people were much happier with less in those days. Most houses had one car and one TV, that was it. LOL I actually do remember "the good life" back in the '50s, with one car and one tv. One phone per house. First phone I remember had a crank. You told an operator whom you wanted to speak to. Ike was pres. The washing machine had a crank and rollers. No one had dryers. Black people weren't happier, though. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - GMDino - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 09:23 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL I actually do remember "the good life" back in the '50s, with one car and one tv. One phone per house. First phone I remember had a crank. You told an operator whom you wanted to speak to. Ike was pres. The washing machine had a crank and rollers. No one had dryers. And the tax rates on businesses and high income earners were higher. And unions fought for fair wages. And companies made profits but didn't flee the country to make more by paying everyone less. Ah, the good old days. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Dill - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 09:26 AM)GMDino Wrote: And the tax rates on businesses and high income earners were higher. And unions fought for fair wages. And companies made profits but didn't flee the country to make more by paying everyone less. We had more unions, more unionized workers. You just mentioned two factors that explain why the wealth gap has grown. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - GMDino - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 09:28 AM)Dill Wrote: We had more unions, more unionized workers. Yep. I'm old enough to remember what Reagan and the Republicans did to our country and our people. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - GMDino - 08-29-2020 Protests about police brutality and treatment of minorities? Whew! Better change the laws to punish the protesters more harshly then! Wait...what? https://theintercept.com/2020/08/27/black-lives-matter-protesters-terrorism-felony-charges/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=theintercept Quote:PROTESTERS IN MULTIPLE STATES ARE FACING FELONY CHARGES, INCLUDING TERRORISM RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 08:36 AM)GMDino Wrote: Here's an idea: Well, your silly example includes the police knowing that the gun was brought against state lines, which I doubt was a piece of volunteered information. Also, your description of the events is contradicted by someone who was actually there and not involved. Quote:Or go inside a bank to help the security guards and do the same. Again, this is just silly and not at all relevant to what we are discussing. Quote:The guy was looking for trouble and found it then cried self defense. Just like all the other cowards who play cop and end up scared and kill someone because they are actually prepared to do the job. Again, you appear to have a peculiar insight into this kid's mind that no one else seems to possess. Your last sentence makes no sense but I'll respond as I thin you intended. The kid was being chased by an angry mob. Someone fired a gun behind him. You're going to tell me you wouldn't fear for your life in such a scenario? I know you probably think you'd be very tough and brave in such a situation but it's quit e a different story to actually be in such a situation. Also, please don't obfuscate with an answer like "I wouldn't put myself in that situation". What you would or would not so to begin with is not the point, it's what you would think and do in the scenario depicted. Quote:In this case I am sad. Sad for the kid who went down that path, sad that we live in a country where there is a path that says carrying a gun makes you tough and sad that people are defending him as if he did nothing wrong other than be attacked when he put himself in that spot because he wanted to "defend" something. The only way to defend something is if it is being attacked. I'm pretty sure all the looted and burned businesses in the area were attacked. All the evidence available show the Rittenhouse was attacked. So, they seem to have met your criteria for defense. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 10:08 AM)GMDino Wrote: Protests about police brutality and treatment of minorities? A glaring error in your article. The police cannot charge you with anything, they can arrest you for a crime. Only the DA's office can actually file charges. Journalism standards have really dropped within the last decade or so. On a related note, federal criminal charges are being filed against many of the Portland, "largely peaceful" rioters. https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/74-people-facing-federal-charges-crimes-committed-during-portland-demonstrations I suppose this was inevitable when the "progressive" DA in Portland refused to actually do his job properly. A few things about federal crimes. The Feds have well over a 90% conviction rate, serving time in a federal prison is no joke and there is no parole in the federal system. Good luck antifa! RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Von Cichlid - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 10:08 AM)GMDino Wrote: Protests about police brutality and treatment of minorities? One thing I'm sure 95% of this nation agrees on is that the rioting has to stop. Even the most liberal politicians are coming out and saying this at this point. Previous posters have said that this nation was built on protest. Well, that may be true, but at the same time those early protestors did so at the risk of death. That is why history respects them. This current crop is rioting and looting with relative impunity and media support (although that has waned), which is why the majority thinks these people are... not that heroic, to put it lightly. To say these protests are about police brutality is complete BS. I mean, the chaos has freaking gone on unabated for 3 months now. What government's law enforcement has ever been as tolerant as this one to this kind of nonsense? Other larger countries would have nipped this in the bud quick. These riots are not about police brutality, they are about class warfare. The protestor of today has no concrete demands that laws could actually provide. They want "social justice," by which they mean reparations (not just for black people). The only thing that will stop this on their terms is for the government to give each one an unspecified amount and provide them with all the commodities that they think they need in order for them to feel more equal to what they all consider the upper echelons of society. As the previous is an impossible task, the only way to stop the insanity is to start cracking down. If another more practical way exists, then many in the US would love to hear it. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - GMDino - 08-29-2020 ![]()
![]() RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 01:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: Keep trying to distract from the daily violence. You can post all the videos of Trump saying dumb stuff you want, it doesn't change the facts. ![]() RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - GMDino - 08-29-2020 https://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2020/08/did-you-see-photos-of-officers-supposedly-injured-last-weekend-in-nw-cities-the-facts-dont-check-out.html Quote:Did you see photos of officers supposedly injured last weekend in NW cities? The facts don’t check out RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - samhain - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 11:39 AM)Von Cichlid Wrote: One thing I'm sure 95% of this nation agrees on is that the rioting has to stop. Even the most liberal politicians are coming out and saying this at this point. I think there's a desire to crack down. However, that's a bit complicated. Cracking down in a serious way might just end the unrest. On the other hand, it's also entirely possible that it could lead to escalation. You're dealing with what have become real ideologues in every way on both sides of this debate, and ideologues typically don't take an ass-kicking, then go hide and never come back. They'll stew and seethe, then respond. You could probably send the Portland hippie-types marching home with their tails between their legs, but the true brutality protesters will remain because they believe that are fighting something truly evil. Power and might are nice things for authorities to have on their side, but they are far from being guarantees of definitive resolution in the face of genuine discontent. If they were, places like Afghanistan and Syria would have been under control years ago. If true urban warfare ensued, it would be a nightmare for everyone involved. I think that the authorities have been hoping that the situation would fizzle out without escalation, to no avail. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Von Cichlid - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 05:42 PM)samhain Wrote: Power and might are nice things for authorities to have on their side, but they are far from being guarantees of definitive resolution in the face of genuine discontent. If they were, places like Afghanistan and Syria would have been under control years ago. If true urban warfare ensued, it would be a nightmare for everyone involved. Oh I agree. These riots are not fizzling out because these rioters aren't making reasonable demands that can actually be met. What they want is full on reparations like what I discussed previously, or they want the country torn down. They absolutely despise everything that's even remotely traditional and conservative, anything even loosely related to traditional American values, and they want this country changed to a point that it would be unrecognizable and would effectively cease to be the same country at all. People did not realize how far gone these rioters are. The liberal mayors, governors, and media did not realize it, but they do now. In short, they want this to be something other than America. In this particular post I am not condemning them, I am just calling it the best I see it. I am trying to avoid hyperbole here, I really am, but after 90 days in multiple cities it is plain as day to me that this is not about anything as relatively small as police brutality, or even general social justice. This is an insurrection by the lower classes of society. Like you said, there is genuine discontent, and I believe it is of the sort that will be unable to hear compromise or reason. I also think that even if Biden wins, that it will not stop. Remember, these rioters hate what they perceive as the upper classes of society, and they will not separate Democrat from Republican in that regard. After all, they are even closing in on the liberal mayors as well: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2020/08/29/Portland-protesters-demonstrate-at-police-union-building-mayors-condo/1101598730141/?ocid=uxbndlbing This is even after months of the mayor "Having their back." If this is going to be stopped, it will probably have to be put down militarily, like with an insurrection, whether it be Trump or Biden that has to be the one to do it. Again, I really do hope I am just being hyperbolic here, but every day this continues we get closer to what I am writing about. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - GMDino - 08-29-2020 I'm sure this will help.
RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - samhain - 08-29-2020 (08-29-2020, 07:04 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: Oh I agree. These riots are not fizzling out because these rioters aren't making reasonable demands that can actually be met. What they want is full on reparations like what I discussed previously, or they want the country torn down. They absolutely despise everything that's even remotely traditional and conservative, anything even loosely related to traditional American values, and they want this country changed to a point that it would be unrecognizable and would effectively cease to be the same country at all. People did not realize how far gone these rioters are. The liberal mayors, governors, and media did not realize it, but they do now. I disagree with the "what they want" part of your response. Well, with the exception of the actual anarchists, anyway. I honestly believe that they riots are more a product of the times we live in that any demand that anyone is making. For one, there's no unified ultimatum among the protesters, and many fall into categories that differ greatly from each other. There are actual BLM protestors. These people show up to protest. I'm sure some are violent, but they originate the gathering. Then there are looters that are being opportunistic with the chaos. After that, you have leftist ideologues that see it as a chance to be a part of some kind of historical change and fight the elite as you suggested. Then you have the most important and possibly consequential group, ie the people who really just want to tear shit up. They cover themselves in political ideology, but they aren't there for any other reason than to escalate. They are a real thing. It probably doesn't take all that many of them to make any gathering go sideways, then allow herd mentality to take over. There's no shortage of people out there that just aren't mentally mature/empathetic enough to be in a potentially volatile situation and not do something stupid/dangerous. Hell, I've seen it at places as frivolous as ballgames. At one Bengals/Steelers game, where there were many fights, I walked past a kid that said word-for-word: "I don't give a shit who wins, I just want to f somebody up". Some people just stop being themselves in those situations due to the fact that a large crowd and multiple distractions allow them to. Add genuine anger, and you're guaranteed to have violence sooner or later. I'm not sure about hating the upper class, either. The upper class are largely supporting the protests when it comes to corporate PR and publicly visible rich people. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Von Cichlid - 08-30-2020 (08-29-2020, 11:24 PM)samhain Wrote: I honestly believe that they riots are more a product of the times we live in that any demand that anyone is making. For one, there's no unified ultimatum among the protesters, and many fall into categories that differ greatly from each other. There are actual BLM protestors. These people show up to protest. I'm sure some are violent, but they originate the gathering. Then there are looters that are being opportunistic with the chaos. After that, you have leftist ideologues that see it as a chance to be a part of some kind of historical change and fight the elite as you suggested. I think you're wrong about BLM. Surely you've read the organization's website? If that is not textbook extreme leftist ideology then I can't say what is. Plus, you had the viral video of the leader claiming that the Chicago looting was reparations. Maybe many of the daytime BLM'ers are not violent themselves, but the violence occurring at night is definitely in accordance with the organizations wishes. "NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE" is their most repeated mantra. I'll take that at face value because they have showed that they mean it. Also, corporate support from the elites means little to these people. Target and Nike supports the cause, and their stores get looted with the rest of them. (I will allow that some protesting with these groups may still not be aware of what the BLM organization is really about, which would put them in your first category.) Edit: You may be right about the protests just being a sign of the times. I'll always feel that if it were not for the truly asinine COVID shutdowns that this would not be happening to anywhere near this extent. Our overreaction to this virus will go down as the worst blunder in US history. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Dill - 08-30-2020 As a helpful reference point, I'm posting the mission statement of BLM from their website. I'll break it into two posts to make it more wieldy. https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ What We Believe Four years ago, what is now known as the Black Lives Matter Global Network began to organize. It started out as a chapter-based, member-led organization whose mission was to build local power and to intervene when violence was inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. In the years since, we’ve committed to struggling together and to imagining and creating a world free of anti-Blackness, where every Black person has the social, economic, and political power to thrive. Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state. Enraged by the death of Trayvon Martin and the subsequent acquittal of his killer, George Zimmerman, and inspired by the 31-day takeover of the Florida State Capitol by POWER U and the Dream Defenders, we took to the streets. A year later, we set out together on the Black Lives Matter Freedom Ride to Ferguson, in search of justice for Mike Brown and all of those who have been torn apart by state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Forever changed, we returned home and began building the infrastructure for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, which, even in its infancy, has become a political home for many. Ferguson helped to catalyze a movement to which we’ve all helped give life. Organizers who call this network home have ousted anti-Black politicians, won critical legislation to benefit Black lives, and changed the terms of the debate on Blackness around the world. Through movement and relationship building, we have also helped catalyze other movements and shifted culture with an eye toward the dangerous impacts of anti-Blackness. RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - TheLeonardLeap - 08-30-2020 (08-29-2020, 07:04 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: I am trying to avoid hyperbole here, I really am, but after 90 days in multiple cities it is plain as day to me that this is not about anything as relatively small as police brutality, or even general social justice. This is an insurrection by the lower classes of society. Like you said, there is genuine discontent, and I believe it is of the sort that will be unable to hear compromise or reason. Honestly it seems more like it's an insurrection by the educated middle/upper-middle class youth (<30 y/o) of society. Then the lower class of society is just riding the wave as a cover to get free stuff. Or organized criminals using it as a smokescreen for their crimes (multiple instances now of people spreading false information on social media in order to stoke riots before there's reports of organized looting). RE: More "largely peaceful" Portland protests - Dill - 08-30-2020 BLM mission statement, part II: These are the results of our collective efforts. The Black Lives Matter Global Network is as powerful as it is because of our membership, our partners, our supporters, our staff, and you. Our continued commitment to liberation for all Black people means we are continuing the work of our ancestors and fighting for our collective freedom because it is our duty. Every day, we recommit to healing ourselves and each other, and to co-creating alongside comrades, allies, and family a culture where each person feels seen, heard, and supported. We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities. We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people. We intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting. We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others. We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world. We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location. We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead. We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence. We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered. We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts. We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work. We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable. We foster a *****‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise). We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn. We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another. |