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+---- Thread: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries (/Thread-Trump-attacks-protections-for-immigrants-from-%E2%80%98s-hole%E2%80%99-countries)
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - Belsnickel - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 03:15 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: So I've skimmed through the thread and could respond to individual posts, but I've come late to the party. So I'll just post my opinion in general on the subject.
First of all, I don't really have a problem with shithole countries being called shithole countries. They are what they are. However where the hell else do some of you expect people to come here from? Norway? Really? Norway is ranked toward the top in quality of life. Why the **** would they want to come here unless it was something job specific?
In general people immigrate to improve their quality of life. It is not a decision made lightly either. It is not easy giving up every thing you've ever known.
I'm honestly in the same boat. I don't have a problem with the language, or calling a country a shithole if it is. It's just when you look at the comment and Trump's history with racial prejudice, there is a pattern there. And, you're right about the reasons for emigrating. People from Norway don't want to come here, but people from African countries do. They come here, and they thrive. They work hard and they do well for themselves.
That is my problem with the comments. They were rooted in ignorance and they fit a pattern of racial prejudice that we have seen from Trump for decades.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - StLucieBengal - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 03:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He did not start his career in there home. This is a complete lie.
He did not even know them until 1995 when they were respectable citizens. He had absolutely nothing to do with any of their violent radical agenda.
Why would any of this make him unfit to be President?
Oh really
Quote:Barack Obama's first run for the Illinois state Senate was launched at a famous fundraiser and kickoff for the campaign at a 1995 gathering at the house of Bill Ayers and his wife, Bernadine Dohrn
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/32072-obama-and-bill-ayers-together-from-the-beginning
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - StLucieBengal - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 03:15 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: So I've skimmed through the thread and could respond to individual posts, but I've come late to the party. So I'll just post my opinion in general on the subject.
First of all, I don't really have a problem with shithole countries being called shithole countries. They are what they are. However where the hell else do some of you expect people to come here from? Norway? Really? Norway is ranked toward the top in quality of life. Why the **** would they want to come here unless it was something job specific?
In general people immigrate to improve their quality of life. It is not a decision made lightly either. It is not easy giving up every thing you've ever known.
I agree with these sentiments. The only difference is by adding a point system we are ensuring we have people coming here who are armed with the ability to thrive.
We are already flooded with low or no skilled people. We can’t have any more until we get our current situation sorted out. And the low skilled people can still get enough points.
I don’t think Norway had anything to do with anything. I believe he just met with them the meeting before. That could have easily been any other country.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - Goalpost - 01-25-2018
Just pulled up the chart of illegal immigration. I mean we do have a problem at one part of the border.
https://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000845
I realize the thread is about legal, but it is easy to see where the DACA issue happened.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 03:30 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I agree with these sentiments. The only difference is by adding a point system we are ensuring we have people coming here who are armed with the ability to thrive.
We are already flooded with low or no skilled people. We can’t have any more until we get our current situation sorted out. And the low skilled people can still get enough points.
I don’t think Norway had anything to do with anything. I believe he just met with them the meeting before. That could have easily been any other country.
They way I see it though we don't need highly skilled immigrants coming here to take highly skilled Americans jobs. Look at the Mason area here, lots of highly trained Indians willing to work for less because it's better than what they would make back home. And I have a hard time believing that we can not find that many qualified individuals within our own country to fill those positions. The low skilled or no skilled people are doing the jobs that most Americans don't want anyway.
IMO we should be limiting these HB1 visas and allowing low skilled immigrants to fill the jobs that most Americans don't want anyway. Vet them to make sure they are not terrorist or criminals and I'm good.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - StLucieBengal - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 03:49 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: They way I see it though we don't need highly skilled immigrants coming here to take highly skilled Americans jobs. Look at the Mason area here, lots of highly trained Indians willing to work for less because it's better than what they would make back home. And I have a hard time believing that we can not find that many qualified individuals within our own country to fill those positions. The low skilled or no skilled people are doing the jobs that most Americans don't want anyway.
IMO we should be limiting these HB1 visas and allowing low skilled immigrants to fill the jobs that most Americans don't want anyway. Vet them to make sure they are not terrorist or criminals and I'm good.
If we didn’t have Americans out of work or on welfare then yes we need these low to no skilled people. Those are the jobs that teenagers and young adults used to take, which helped build a work ethic as they progressed. Now we have third world people taking those jobs. Which only makes our youth more entitled and their appreciation for people in those type of jobs also goes away.
For instance I appreciate the service industry today because I worked as a bus boy at bob Evans and worked at Wendy’s when I was a teenager. I wasn’t sitting around while some illegal Mexican did the work.
These have cascading effects on our population when our youth do not have to take an entry level job .
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - fredtoast - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 03:24 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Oh really
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/32072-obama-and-bill-ayers-together-from-the-beginning
Not sure if this is legit or not, but it doesn't really matter. Ayers was a respectable citizen at that time. Neither he nor Obama were involved in any violent radical activities.
Ronald Reagan was democrat in his younger days. Should that have disqualified him from running on the Republican ticket?
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - StLucieBengal - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 03:31 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Just pulled up the chart of illegal immigration. I mean we do have a problem at one part of the border.
https://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000845
I realize the thread is about legal, but it is easy to see where the DACA issue happened.
This is exactly why we need a tough policy and restriction moving forward. It will take a few decades to recover from this mess.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - fredtoast - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 03:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's just when you look at the comment and Trump's history with racial prejudice, there is a pattern there.
Exactly. And when he made these comments in the meeting he didn't say "Why do we have all these immigrants without college degrees?" He made no mention at all of anything other than the country of origin.
It could be that the only reason he favors the RAISE Act is because he thinks no one from Africa will qualify.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - StLucieBengal - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 04:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure if this is legit or not, but it doesn't really matter. Ayers was a respectable citizen at that time. Neither he nor Obama were involved in any violent radical activities.
Ronald Reagan was democrat in his younger days. Should that have disqualified him from running on the Republican ticket?
Instead of the ridiculous reagan comparison. You could have just said “hey Lucie you were right, I didn’t know that, thank you for sharing”
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - fredtoast - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 04:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This is exactly why we need a tough policy and restriction moving forward. It will take a few decades to recover from this mess.
"Recover"?
From what?
Most of these people are working and contributing to our economy.
Some agri-businesses will need time to recover from a loss of cheap labor, but they will probably just pass it on to us consumers.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - fredtoast - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 04:08 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Instead of the ridiculous reagan comparison. You could have just said “hey Lucie you were right, I didn’t know that, thank you for sharing”
I am not sure if you are right at all. You have a tendency to quote unreliable sources. Since this issue has nothing to do with this thread I am not going to waste my time confirming it.
And your larger point was wrong anyway. Ayers was an upstanding , highly regarded citizen at the time Obama met him. He had nothing to do with his past.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 04:01 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If we didn’t have Americans out of work or on welfare then yes we need these low to no skilled people. Those are the jobs that teenagers and young adults used to take, which helped build a work ethic as they progressed. Now we have third world people taking those jobs. Which only makes our youth more entitled and their appreciation for people in those type of jobs also goes away.
For instance I appreciate the service industry today because I worked as a bus boy at bob Evans and worked at Wendy’s when I was a teenager. I wasn’t sitting around while some illegal Mexican did the work.
These have cascading effects on our population when our youth do not have to take an entry level job .
Except for when I was in the Navy and when I worked for a hospital a while back, I have worked in the service industry. Both restaurants and retail since I was 14yo. I've worked with a lot of immigrants. And trust me we still get plenty of teenage applicants (I'm in management) and the teenagers that don't apply, well it's not because of immigrants taking their job. It's because they're either too lazy or because their parents discourage it because they feel it is below them.
Go to any restaurant or retail store and the first thing you'll see walking in is a sign saying that they are hiring for any shift and anybody...ANYBODY! Pulse optional! They don't care if you're a teenager or an immigrant as long as your paperwork checks out (and even if it doesn't in some places). Bottom line...illegal immigrants aren't taking entry level jobs from teenagers period.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - PhilHos - 01-25-2018
I don't want to read through this whole thread, but has it been definitively proven that Trump actually said these things or are we just taking the word of some Democrats?
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 05:24 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't want to read through this whole thread, but has it been definitively proven that Trump actually said these things or are we just taking the word of some Democrats?
Well from what I've read it's not been definitively proven by anyone. It has been confirmed by some Democrats and Republicans, but denied by more Republicans. Hope that clears things up.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - PhilHos - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 05:30 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Well from what I've read it's not been definitively proven by anyone. It has been confirmed by some Democrats and Republicans, but denied by more Republicans. Hope that clears things up.
It's what I thought. Thanks.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - StLucieBengal - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 05:19 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Except for when I was in the Navy and when I worked for a hospital a while back, I have worked in the service industry. Both restaurants and retail since I was 14yo. I've worked with a lot of immigrants. And trust me we still get plenty of teenage applicants (I'm in management) and the teenagers that don't apply, well it's not because of immigrants taking their job. It's because they're either too lazy or because their parents discourage it because they feel it is below them.
Go to any restaurant or retail store and the first thing you'll see walking in is a sign saying that they are hiring for any shift and anybody...ANYBODY! Pulse optional! They don't care if you're a teenager or an immigrant as long as your paperwork checks out (and even if it doesn't in some places). Bottom line...illegal immigrants aren't taking entry level jobs from teenagers period.
Oh I know. My buddy owned a restaurant and he said it’s a joke to hire anyone.
We used to have a work ethic and a standard that these jobs are what young people do. When did that change? When it became known we had Mexicans to do those jobs. Which is my point. We lost what makes us what we have always been by allowing a bunch of third worlders to do the jobs people think they are above.
Heck I used to cut lawns for money. Now I can’t find anyone who doesn’t have a lawn service. And those lawn services mostly do not speak any English.
From a cultural part it sucks for us because in the end we suffer by having the Mexicans do all this stuff.
My daughters had to fundraiser for school and they brough home this brochure for us to buy stuff. After I placed an order I wrote a script for both of them and told them we would be going house to house over he weekend until we sold the most in their classes.
The next day my 5th grader came home and asked why they needed to do this when no one else in their class was doing this... it’s absolutely disturbing that no one else sends their children out to sell door to door. How are they going to learn those skills? You have to be able to sell someone.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - fredtoast - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 05:36 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: We used to have a work ethic and a standard that these jobs are what young people do. When did that change? When it became known we had Mexicans to do those jobs. Which is my point. We lost what makes us what we have always been by allowing a bunch of third worlders to do the jobs people think they are above.
How did having Mexicans available suddenly make teens willing to give up the extra income from a summer job?
Teens are not getting bumped from these jobs by immigrants (or the older people who are working longer than before, or the former higher wage scale workers that had to drop down to minimum wage jobs because they were displaced by technology). Teens are just not applying for these jobs.
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - fredtoast - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 05:36 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The next day my 5th grader came home and asked why they needed to do this when no one else in their class was doing this... it’s absolutely disturbing that no one else sends their children out to sell door to door. How are they going to learn those skills? You have to be able to sell someone.
So according to your logic we should see a bunch of immigrants selling school fundraising products door-to-door.
Anyone here seen that happen in their neighborhood?
RE: Trump attacks protections for immigrants from ‘s***hole’ countries - bfine32 - 01-25-2018
(01-25-2018, 05:24 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't want to read through this whole thread, but has it been definitively proven that Trump actually said these things or are we just taking the word of some Democrats?
There is evidence that he said it and despite Dino's not knowing of a single shred of evidence to the contrary folks like Kirstjen Nielsen have testified under oath that he did not say. But in the end: how do you prove a negative? The accusation was made by someone that had a lot to gain by making it and many will accept that as gospel.
As I've made the point that I would not doubt that he said it, but I have also said I doubt it was done out of racism. As he has said many times He is the President of the United States, not the President of the World. That dynamic is a little shocking to some after the previous 8 years