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+---- Thread: White Privilege? (/Thread-White-Privilege)
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 11:31 AM)Beaker Wrote: I would say the cop is racist. No special rights are being granted. You pass a different cop at 80 and he pulls you over....even though you're white. Where did your special right go? Where is your "white privilege"?
It is a huge privilege to pay only one ticket instead of two.
RE: White Privilege? - PhilHos - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 12:37 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: And I don't think any of those 20 white drivers should be shamed or be made to feel guilty about it. Our concern should be why the cop (not to suggest cops are more to blame than others, this is just the scenario) did that.
Calling it white privilege only does the former and excuses the latter. You want to be concerned with why the police are being racist, then stop blaming the white people "benefitting" from the police's racism. And, yes, blaming "white privilege" IS blaming those benefitting while excusing the racist because now the focus is not on the racist. Now, we're talking about whether or not there is white privilege instead of going, "That cop is racist. We need to change that."
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 06:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Calling it white privilege only does the former and excuses the latter. You want to be concerned with why the police are being racist, then stop blaming the white people "benefitting" from the police's racism. And, yes, blaming "white privilege" IS blaming those benefitting while excusing the racist because now the focus is not on the racist. Now, we're talking about whether or not there is white privilege instead of going, "That cop is racist. We need to change that."
This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.
EVERY SINGLE PERSON who talks about "white privilege" talks about the racists cause. Please give me a link to one article about "white privilege" that doe not directly address the racism underlying "white privilege".
The only white people who get "blamed" for anything are the white people who claim there is not such thing as white privilege. And the reason they get blamed is because the only way to deny the existence of "white privilege" is to deny the effects of racism in our society.
You can't address an issue when you deny that it exists.
RE: White Privilege? - PhilHos - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 06:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.
False. I know for a FACT that you've "heard" more absurd things.
(08-09-2018, 06:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: EVERY SINGLE PERSON who talks about "white privilege" talks about the racists cause. Please give me a link to one article about "white privilege" that doe not directly address the racism underlying "white privilege".Oh sure, they talk about the underlying racism, but the focus of "white privilege" is ALWAYS about those receiving said privilege. That's the whole point of the term.
(08-09-2018, 06:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The only white people who get "blamed" for anything are the white people who claim there is not such thing as white privilege.
False. The only point of "white privilege" is to shame and guilt white people who supposedly benefit from some form of racism.
(08-09-2018, 06:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And the reason they get blamed is because the only way to deny the existence of "white privilege" is to deny the effects of racism in our society.
Or, you know, the fact that no one's ever proven 'white privilege' exists. The only privilege people can prove the existence of is wealth privilege.
(08-09-2018, 06:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't address an issue when you deny that it exists.
True, but it'd be nice if people could actually PROVE it exists.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 06:56 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Or, you know, the fact that no one's ever proven 'white privilege' exists. The only privilege people can prove the existence of is wealth privilege.
True, but it'd be nice if people could actually PROVE it exists.
Phil, how do you explain the multiple studies that have been posted in this thread that prove that people are treated differently based on their race and not just their wealth?
Are you going to claim that you have not seen all of these links that have been posted? Or are you going to admit that you just ignore any information that does not support your position?
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 06:56 PM)PhilHos Wrote: False. The only point of "white privilege" is to shame and guilt white people who supposedly benefit from some form of racism.
I asked for a link. Your opinion is meaningless. Just because you 100% believe everything Tucker Carlson tells you does not mean it is really true.
Link me one article about white privilege that does not address the racism that is the base cause for the issue.
I am a white person. I do not feel shamed or guilty about my white privilege. I just see it as an issue that needs to be addressed.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 06:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Fine. As long as you do not say it does not exist. That is what you tried to claim at first.
Racism exists. Do we need another name for racism?
RE: White Privilege? - BmorePat87 - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 06:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Calling it white privilege only does the former and excuses the latter. You want to be concerned with why the police are being racist, then stop blaming the white people "benefitting" from the police's racism. And, yes, blaming "white privilege" IS blaming those benefitting while excusing the racist because now the focus is not on the racist. Now, we're talking about whether or not there is white privilege instead of going, "That cop is racist. We need to change that."
I disagree with the premise that using the term inherently blames white people, but at least we agree that no one should be blaming those who benefit from the discrimination of others, just those who discriminate.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 06:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Calling it white privilege only does the former and excuses the latter. You want to be concerned with why the police are being racist, then stop blaming the white people "benefitting" from the police's racism. And, yes, blaming "white privilege" IS blaming those benefitting while excusing the racist because now the focus is not on the racist. Now, we're talking about whether or not there is white privilege instead of going, "That cop is racist. We need to change that."
(08-09-2018, 07:23 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I disagree with the premise that using the term inherently blames white people, but at least we agree that no one should be blaming those who benefit from the discrimination of others, just those who discriminate.
Rep for both. We don't need to call racism anything else.
RE: White Privilege? - BmorePat87 - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 07:27 PM)Beaker Wrote: Rep for both. We don't need to call racism anything else.
I think we're not 100% on the same page with that, but I will say I have never been a fan of the term "white privilege" because using the word privilege is too controversial.
But like I said to Phil, I think in threads like this we need to just focus on what we all agree on: blame the racists not those who might inadvertently benefit from them.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 07:14 PM)Beaker Wrote: Racism exists. Do we need another name for racism?
Depends.
Do you admit that white privilege is real?
Forget about the semantics, I don't care what you call it. I am not going to argue over that.
Just tell me if you admit that it is real. That is the only issue I care about.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-09-2018
(08-09-2018, 08:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Depends.
Do you admit that white privilege is real?
Forget about the semantics, I don't care what you call it. I am not going to argue over that.
Just tell me if you admit that it is real. That is the only issue I care about.
It doesn't matter what you care about. Your opinion doesn't matter. What you call white privilege is nothing more than simple racism....which occurs in every racial group. So it is just as real as black privilege, asian privilege or latino privilege. etc.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-10-2018
(08-09-2018, 11:47 PM)Beaker Wrote: It doesn't matter what you care about. Your opinion doesn't matter. What you call white privilege is nothing more than simple racism....which occurs in every racial group. So it is just as real as black privilege, asian privilege or latino privilege. etc.
Here you go again.
When racism is involved the person who is a member of the group that controls a disproportionate amount of the wealth and power has a privilege.
Black people in the JIm crow south held racist views of white people but they had ZERO privilege.
It is absurd to claim that racism is the exact same thing as privilege. If you disagree then list all of the privileges that blacks in the Jim Crow south enjoyed.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-10-2018
(08-10-2018, 12:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here you go again.
When racism is involved the person who is a member of the group that controls a disproportionate amount of the wealth and power has a privilege.
Black people in the JIm crow south held racist views of white people but they had ZERO privilege.
It is absurd to claim that racism is the exact same thing as privilege. If you disagree then list all of the privileges that blacks in the Jim Crow south enjoyed.
So you are asserting that no minority holds wealth or power in any situation, therefore they can never have privilege?
And because of the Jim Crow south, no blacks can have privilege today?
Absurd.
RE: White Privilege? - PhilHos - 08-10-2018
(08-09-2018, 07:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Phil, how do you explain the multiple studies that have been posted in this thread that prove that people are treated differently based on their race and not just their wealth?
Are you going to claim that you have not seen all of these links that have been posted? Or are you going to admit that you just ignore any information that does not support your position?
It's been awhile, but I don't remember the studies proving such a thing on a grand level. As far as I can recall (and, admittedly, my memory ain't the greatest), any studies on "white privilege" only proved that some people are still racist.
(08-09-2018, 07:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I asked for a link. Your opinion is meaningless.
![[Image: 6bhi.gif]](https://i.gifer.com/6bhi.gif)
fredtoast Wrote:I asked for a link.
You want a link? Fine. Just because:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/02/white-privilege-myth-reality/
https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2014/06/white-privilege-myths-facts/
fredtoast Wrote:Just because you 100% believe everything Tucker Carlson tells you does not mean it is really true.
Just because that you, fredtoast, 100% believe everything Donald Trump tells you does not mean it is really true.
fredtoast Wrote:Link me one article about white privilege that does not address the racism that is the base cause for the issue.
Why? I never said that racism doesn't exist. I admit that it does. Even today and even in America. But, just because someone is racist doesn't mean there is racial privilege.
fredtoast Wrote:I am a white person. I do not feel shamed or guilty about my white privilege.
Of course you don't. It's impossible to feel shame or guilt about something that doesn't exist.
Also: "Your opinion is meaningless."
fredtoast Wrote:I just see it as an issue that needs to be addressed.
I came across this link earlier. I'm sure you'll appreciate it:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23311886.2015.1053183
Quote:This article’s chief finding is that [white privilege] pedagogy, though designed to fight racism, has the unintended effect of supporting white privilege. Teaching whites to “unpack their invisible knapsack” does not make them more willing to take action against racial inequality. On the contrary, it makes them more complacent, more at home in an unjust world, and more comfortable with their whiteness. White privilege pedagogy does this by focusing on personal identity (whites’ personal identity) over institutional structures, by paying more attention to whites’ experiences than to blacks’, by falsely claiming that the confession of white privileges leads to social action beneficial to blacks, and by restoring and expanding whites’ sense of moral rightness.
You sure you want to keep addressing it?
RE: White Privilege? - PhilHos - 08-10-2018
(08-09-2018, 07:23 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I disagree with the premise that using the term inherently blames white people, but at least we agree that no one should be blaming those who benefit from the discrimination of others, just those who discriminate.
I'll grant that maybe "blame" isn't the right word, but the term certainly puts the focus on those receiving supposed privilege in an effort to guilt or shame them.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-10-2018
(08-10-2018, 03:05 PM)Beaker Wrote: So you are asserting that no minority holds wealth or power in any situation, therefore they can never have privilege?
The only possible situation is the rap or hip hop music industry. So when they only control about 1% of the economy I don't think that is much of a privilege. What other industry is controlled by blacks or minorities?
My point is that it is still a HUGE privilege to be in control of 99%. The whites do not have to control 100% of everything to have a privilege.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-10-2018
(08-10-2018, 03:13 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It's been awhile, but I don't remember the studies proving such a thing on a grand level. As far as I can recall (and, admittedly, my memory ain't the greatest), any studies on "white privilege" only proved that some people are still racist.
Maybe you shouldn't comment on something you have so little knowledge of.
There have been multiple studies posted showing that blacks and minorities are treated worse in housing applications, job applications, and profiling by police. Since white people are treated better and white people control a disproportionate amount of wealth and power in this country then white people have a privilege.
If you admit that racism exists. And if you admit that white people control a disproportionate amount of wealth and power in this country, then you have to admit that there is a privilege to being white in the United States.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-10-2018
(08-10-2018, 03:13 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You want a link? Fine. Just because:Did you even read that link? It provided zero proof of anything regarding white privilege. All it did was say that other groups had received a privilege before. So how does claiming other privileges exist somehow prove that white privilege does not exist.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/02/white-privilege-myth-reality/
This was the lamest compilation of right wing speaking points and mindless pap that I have ever seen. Not one shred of evidence to back up a single claim, then using the ridiculous backward logic of "other privileges exist therefore white privilege does not exist".
Here is the problem with the rights use of this argument with blacks. Blacks no racism exists. So when people from the right claim that racism does not really exist and is just a myth created by the left just about the only people impressed are white people. The right has been throwing that BS around for years and they are still lucky to get 10% of the black vote.
RE: White Privilege? - PhilHos - 08-10-2018
(08-10-2018, 05:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My point is that it is still a HUGE privilege to be in control of 99%.
Yes, it is, but wouldn't that privilege only extend to those that are actually in control of the 99%?