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+---- Thread: White Privilege? (/Thread-White-Privilege)
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 05:56 AM)Beaker Wrote: And you finally grasp the concept that it is an invented term. Progress for both of us apparently.
Actually still no progress for you unless you can provide an example of a term that was NOT "invented".
The concept of "white privilege" is 100% real. And like every real concept it needed a term to describe it.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 05:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The concept of "white privilege" is 100% real.
As is black privilege, asian privilege, latino privilege, and any other racial group privilege.
But they are all just racism, so the term privilege in that context is just an unnecessary addition to the lexicon.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:13 PM)Beaker Wrote: As is black privilege, asian privilege, latino privilege, and any other racial group privilege.
No. It is not the same at all.
Blacks favored blacks in the Jim Crow south, but that does not mean there was no privilege to being white.
Blacks favored blacks during Apartheid in South Africa, but that does not mean there was no privilege to being white.
If you admit that racism still exists in the United Sates and you also admit that whites control a large disproportionate amount of the wealth and power in the United States then you can not deny that there is a privilege to being white in the United Sates. The privilege is not as great as it was under Jim Crow or Apartheid, but it is still a privilege.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 05:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of course it is all racism.
And since whites hold a hugely disproportionate number of these positions of power then it is a privilege to be white.
Unless your black boss promotes a black guy over you based solely upon skin color, then its black privilege. Or an Asian cop writes you a ticket and lets an Asian guy go for the same offense, then its Asian privilege. Or your Latino law professor consistently gives his Latino students better grades then you for the same quality work, resulting in them getting better job offers than you, then its Latino privilege.
Will there likely be a larger number of white racists, yes since whites make up a larger percentage of the population. But even whites will run into minorities in power positions. So let's just stop with all this privilege BS and work on the real problem which is reducing or eliminating racist behaviors in our society.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Blacks favored blacks in the Jim Crow south, but that does not mean there was no privilege to being white.
Has zero bearing on this. In the Jim Crow south, blacks could not hold office, blacks could not be cops, blacks would not be in managerial positions, blacks would not be hiring managers, blacks would not be loan officers, etc. So since society in the Jim Crow south was nothing like it is today, let's stop pretending like its similar at all.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:21 PM)Beaker Wrote: So let's just stop with all this privilege BS and work on the real problem which is reducing or eliminating racist behaviors in our society.
The problem with addressing ending racism is that when we try to talk about the problems people like you claim there is no problem because everyone is being treated equally.
RE: White Privilege? - bfine32 - 08-14-2018
Allow me to ask a question generally speaking:
Is it easier to go through life as a rich black man or a poor white man?
The privilege is in the social status, That's why it's called socio-economic stratification
Now you can make the argument that whites of the majority of the wealth, but that's a separate argument.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:25 PM)Beaker Wrote: Has zero bearing on this. In the Jim Crow south, blacks could not hold office, blacks could not be cops, blacks would not be in managerial positions, blacks would not be hiring managers, blacks would not be loan officers, etc. So since society in the Jim Crow south was nothing like it is today, let's stop pretending like its similar at all.
Today is very similar to the Jim Crow south in the fact that whites control a large disproportionate amount of the wealth and power and racism still exists.
So lets stop pretending that the Jim Crow south was "nothing like today". Some very important things are still the same.
RE: White Privilege? - bfine32 - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Today is very similar to the Jim Crow south in the fact that whites control a large disproportionate amount of the wealth and power and racism still exists.
So lets stop pretending that the Jim Crow south was "nothing like today". Some very important things are still the same.
Folks from the Jim Crow south may disagree, but you probably know best,
WTS, I haven't seen anyone claim racism doesn't exist today.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Allow me to ask a question generally speaking:
Is it easier to go through life as a rich black man or a poor white man?
The privilege is in the social status, That's why it's called socio-economic stratification
Now you can make the argument that whites of the majority of the wealth, but that's a separate argument.
The privilege of socio-economic status is different from the racial privilege.
That is why you refuse to compare a poor black guy to a poor white guy.
And as for rich people, when I was in college the wealthy head coach of the University of Tennessee basketball team was denied the same membership to the exclusive Cherokee Hills Country Club that every other UT coach received because he had black skin. So maybe you need to lecture Wade Houston on how there is no racism toward wealthy black people.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks from the Jim Crow south may disagree, but you probably know best,
So you are actually claiming that folks from the Jim Crow south would claim there is no racism today and whites don't control a disproportionate amount of the wealth and power in this country?
I don't even know how to react to such a claim.
RE: White Privilege? - bfine32 - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are actually claiming that folks from the Jim Crow south would claim there is no racism today and whites don't control a disproportionate amount of the wealth and power in this country?If you have quoted the whole post maybe you'd know better how to react.
I don't even know how to react to such a claim.
So you are actually claiming that today's society is very much like Jim Crow south?
I don't even know how to react to such a claim. Hell, I'll bet MLK's relatives feel like he may have accomplished something.
RE: White Privilege? - bfine32 - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The privilege of socio-economic status is different from the racial privilege.
That is why you refuse to compare a poor black guy to a poor white guy.
And as for rich people, when I was in college the wealthy head coach of the University of Tennessee basketball team was denied the same membership to the exclusive Cherokee Hills Country Club that every other UT coach received because he had black skin. So maybe you need to lecture Wade Houston on how there is no racism toward wealthy black people.
Comparing the poor to the poor would also have to take in community as well as color, unless one only want to focus on the color.
As to the other another quick question: When were you in College?
And finally, I don't know how many time I'm can type it (am I using invisible font?) No one has claimed racism does not exist.
RE: White Privilege? - Bengalzona - 08-14-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Allow me to ask a question generally speaking:
Is it easier to go through life as a rich black man or a poor white man?
The privilege is in the social status, That's why it's called socio-economic stratification
Now you can make the argument that whites of the majority of the wealth, but that's a separate argument.
I agree that social class privilege is a thing, and has always been a greater problem for societies more any other type of privilege. In fact, reaching a socio-economic balance in a society may be the necessary precursor to addressing any remaining perceived privilege types, IMHO. But we haven't figured a way to do that yet.
But I also believe that every race, religion, ethnicity, etc. has their own set of privileges. Usually, these privileges are not so prevalent in the society unless they belong to the majority race, religion, ethnicity, etc. But there are some exceptions. Take South Africa prior to the nineties. Whites were (and are) a minority there. Yet they held a lot of privileges in that society. That's a rare situation, but it isn't unique. For those familiar with the Gulf States, some of them have privileged minority classes of Sunni's and under-privileged majority classes made up of other religions and sects (primarily Shi'ite).
One of the privileges I feel that I, as a white Christian dude, experience here in the U.S. is a reduced concern from organized, racially-motivated hate groups. No doubt there are organized groups among minority races that wish ill-will upon YT's such as myself. But there are none that come near the size, scope and political power of the KKK, et al.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-15-2018
(08-14-2018, 07:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the other another quick question: When were you in College?
The Wade Houston incident occurred in 1989 when I was in grad school
(08-14-2018, 07:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And finally, I don't know how many time I'm can type it (am I using invisible font?) No one has claimed racism does not exist.
You don't have to say that again. I agree with you. Racism creates white privilege here in the United States.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-15-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The problem with addressing ending racism is that when we try to talk about the problems people like you claim there is no problem because everyone is being treated equally.
Nope. Another incorrect assertion by you.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-15-2018
(08-14-2018, 06:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Today is very similar to the Jim Crow south in the fact that whites control a large disproportionate amount of the wealth and power and racism still exists.
So lets stop pretending that the Jim Crow south was "nothing like today". Some very important things are still the same.
Wrong. Has no bearing on this conversation. You can keep rolling that out there, but you, I and everyone else know that the rights of blacks during Jim Crow and their position within society was nowhere near comparable to the rights and freedoms they currently possess. It is absolutely nothing like today for minorities. Blacks then had virtually no whites sympathetic to their oppression. Today the majority of whites in this country are heavily in favor of equal rights and treatment for minorities.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 08-15-2018
(08-15-2018, 03:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Racism creates white privilege here in the United States.
Racism creates privileges for every racial group here in the US.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-16-2018
(08-15-2018, 11:38 PM)Beaker Wrote: Nope. Another incorrect assertion by you.
Sorry, I forgot that you see white people as victims.
RE: White Privilege? - fredtoast - 08-16-2018
(08-15-2018, 11:50 PM)Beaker Wrote: Racism creates privileges for every racial group here in the US.
No it does not.
Only the race in control gets the privilege. Minorities do not have enough power to give privilege greater than what the white people get.
What industry is controlled by minorities to the extent that they can oppress white people and exclude them. Other than Rap/Hip-hop I can't think f a single example.