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Why does he refuse to condemn them? - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +--- Thread: Why does he refuse to condemn them? (/Thread-Why-does-he-refuse-to-condemn-them) |
RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - Dill - 10-09-2020 (10-09-2020, 08:53 PM)hollodero Wrote: The latter post did occur pretty much as stated, albeit some time ago. Regarding the former, there was a deleted post in this thread that of course I shall not repost verbatim, but believe me it was pretty unambiguous. Thanks for your views on this Hollo. I did not see either of these posts. No idea whom they came from (no need to know). I drop in and out of these threads. There are few I follow from beginning to end. So I have missed this history, and how it might color what happened above. I'm sure I don't have blind spots, but I get what you're saying about others ![]() I do want to go record, though, as someone who wants to raise, not lower, the level of our dialogue. That's not a matter of sides. I believe I have sided with "the other side" a couple of times when either I agreed with Bfine or thought he was unfairly ganged. And I do befriend and include "the other side" as fellow forum colleagues, when they'll have me. I want to see people contributing, posting links and views I otherwise wouldn't see, and working more deeply into issues, not attacking them for their views or pushing them out of threads. I'll work with anyone to make the environment here more welcoming. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - BmorePat87 - 10-12-2020 speaking of racism, someone confronted the Second Lady of PA this weekend while she was grocery shopping and called her the N word. The 2nd lady, who is Latina and came here undocumented as a child, recorded it and posted it online. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - GMDino - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 11:45 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: speaking of racism, someone confronted the Second Lady of PA this weekend while she was grocery shopping and called her the N word. The 2nd lady, who is Latina and came here undocumented as a child, recorded it and posted it online. And from what I heard on the radio she was very gracious with her post saying something along the lines of "Hate is learned. If you know this woman teach her how to love." RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - PhilHos - 10-12-2020 (10-09-2020, 02:17 PM)Dill Wrote: Well I said "Hitler" while we were talking about Trump, but I didn't jump straight to a "Hitler comparison"-- I'll be honest, I didn't read any of this. Look, it should be clear that when Trump told the crowd they had good genes, he was literally just telling them they were a good looking crowd. Now, YOU may think Trump is very intellectual and such a deep thinker, that he's capable of making a comment that to the average person is him just telling a crowd they look good but in actuality he's subtly saying "white people are better" but I don't like to give Trump more credit than he deserves. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - PhilHos - 10-12-2020 (10-09-2020, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So why should we give a shit when he says something that he obviously does not mean? Because it's not about Trump it's about YOU. You want to argue that he doesn't mean something he said? Fine, but that's a different argument. However, just because you don't believe him when Trump says something doesn't give you the right to just say he didn't say it. (10-09-2020, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You keep frothing at the mouth about how often he says he condemns white supremacy, but apparently you don't care if he is telling the truth or not. That is a ridiculous position if you ask me. I would never praise a person for making comments when I can tell they are lying. Not true at all. The problem is that you guys make so much shit up about Trump that I spend my time just correcting you that I don't have much time to express my distaste for his lying. Not to mention that you "froth at the mouth" about Trump's lies and the shit you make up about him that you seemingly don't care about Biden's lies. So why should I care about Trump's lies if you don't care about Biden's lies? (10-09-2020, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is clear that he has said the words that he condemns white supremacy. I will give you that. Good for you. Too bad you're not most of the media who keep spouting that Trump refuses to condemn it. (10-09-2020, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The difference between the two of us is that I actually care if he is telling the truth. But only Trump. Biden can lie his way to the White House that's fine, but if Trump lies, there's hell to pay. The fact is I care when ANY politician lies. You only care when it's a conservative or someone claiming to be conservative. In addition, I don't make shit up about them, either. (10-09-2020, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A total disregard for the truth. The only disregarding the truth are those that make shit up about Trump. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - fredtoast - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 02:11 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Not to mention that you "froth at the mouth" about Trump's lies and the shit you make up about him that you seemingly don't care about Biden's lies. So why should I care about Trump's lies if you don't care about Biden's lies? What lies? I care about any lies Biden may have told that will effect the type of policy he would support as President. So which ones should I be concerned about? RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - fredtoast - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 02:11 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Not true at all. The problem is that you guys make so much shit up about Trump that I spend my time just correcting you that I don't have much time to express my distaste for his lying. I don't make stuff up about Trump, and you have no corrected me about anything. You just spent days trying to argue that "so different" means "same". ![]() RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - PhilHos - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 03:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't make stuff up about Trump, So you didn't say: (10-05-2020, 06:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: For example last week he told a group of his supporters that "We have superior genes". Huh. Could've fooled me. (10-12-2020, 03:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You just spent days trying to argue that "so different" means "same". Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, that was you chief. I was arguing "not so different" means "not exactly the same". You were the one claiming "not so different" means "exactly the same". RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - Dill - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 01:43 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'll be honest, I didn't read any of this. Well, I appreciate your honesty, but dismissing a counter argument without reading it is not only bad form. It signals intent to hold a position right or wrong, without considering the validity of arguments against it. Why assume one has to be a "deep thinker" to believe that white people have superior genes--and then tell them so, either spontaneously or after deliberation? Quite the opposite in fact. Racism does not require deep thought. But it does require belief that one "race" has "good genes" and others not so good. In a politician it only requires the minimal foresight not to mention "race" while saying saying so. The issue here was whom Trump included in his reference to "people of Minnesota." No Trump defender has yet explained why that term should include African Minnesotans, after Trump spent an hour defining them as "others" who don't belong in the US, much less Minnesota. Trump defenders argue as if Trump framing the audience as of good (white) genes requires some special extra mental act over and above his ordinary views of people. No reason to suppose that, if the assumption of white superiority is his "normal." RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - PhilHos - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:14 PM)Dill Wrote: Well, I appreciate your honesty, but dismissing a counter argument without reading it is not only bad form. It signals intent to hold a position right or wrong, without considering the validity of arguments against it. You're entitled to your opinion, but my main reason for ignoring your response is that I believe your lengthy post is intentionally verbose so as to obfuscate the argument. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - bfine32 - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:14 PM)Dill Wrote: He told a state that is 20% other that White non-Hispanic that they has good genes. He did that to garner votes from EVERY citizen in the state, not just the white ones. Any further analysis is just tin foil hat territory RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - GMDino - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He told a state that is 20% other that White non-Hispanic that they has good genes. He did that to garner votes from EVERY citizen in the state, not just the white ones. Any further analysis is just tin foil hat territory Whoa! Finally someone knows what Trump meant vs what he said! ![]() Side note though: Trump relies much more heavily on winning the white vote than the minorities. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - GMDino - 10-12-2020 More than once in this thread it has been proposed that Trump is not a "deep thinker". Why that isn't reason enough to not vote for him to be President is beyond me RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - PhilHos - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: More than once in this thread it has been proposed that Trump is not a "deep thinker". Why that isn't reason enough to not vote for him to be President is beyond me I don't believe Biden is a deep thinker either. I believe he generally thinks before he speaks WAY MORE than Trump does, but I wouldn't qualify him as a deep thinker either. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - GMDino - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:45 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't believe Biden is a deep thinker either. I believe he generally thinks before he speaks WAY MORE than Trump does, but I wouldn't qualify him as a deep thinker either. On one had a guy who thinks before he speaks, on the on the a guy who isn't a "deep thinker" at all and just pouts nonsense. Whew. Tough call. ![]() I'll repeat then: "Why that isn't reason enough to not vote for him to be President is beyond me." RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - PhilHos - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: On one had a guy who thinks before he speaks, on the on the a guy who isn't a "deep thinker" at all and just pouts nonsense. Because there's more to being a president than just how good a communicator they are. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - Dill - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:20 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You're entitled to your opinion, but my main reason for ignoring your response is that I believe your lengthy post is intentionally verbose so as to obfuscate the argument. I don't think you disagree with my "opinion" here. If you did you'd agree that someone who just wants to hold a conclusion as "true" should avoid/dismiss arguments that may refute that conclusion. In any case, I don't see any special reason to suppose a post "intentionally verbose" to obfuscate the argument because it is longer than usual. Why shouldn't that indicate the poster is taking more care NOT to be misunderstood--the opposite of obfuscate? We see plenty of "intentional obfuscation in short posts, right? You could think of my long post as two different ones that just happened to get collected together into an extended argument. The first one, supported by explanation, argues that your defense of Trump is based upon a faulty linguistic analysis, separating words from the larger context--in this case a speech. The second (starts with "best way") offers an extended example by unpacking the Mein Kampf analogy. But if you don't like the word "Hitler," you could substitute the Declaration of independence. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - bfine32 - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: Whoa! Finally someone knows what Trump meant vs what he said! It is what he said. I'm not the one trying at attach a covert meaning to it. Are you sure you meant to quote me? RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - fredtoast - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He told a state that is 20% other that White non-Hispanic that they has good genes. He did that to garner votes from EVERY citizen in the state, not just the white ones. Any further analysis is just tin foil hat territory Only problem with that theory is that you have to pretend that there is a "Minnesota gene" that people of all races from MInnesota have and no one inb other states have. You have to play make believe to defend Trump. Why not face reality and look at the crowd he was talking to. At least 99% white. Too bad Trump can't govern in the make believe world where his fans live. REALITY IS A *****. RE: Why does he refuse to condemn them? - fredtoast - 10-12-2020 (10-12-2020, 04:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, that was you chief. I was arguing "not so different" means "not exactly the same". You were the one claiming "not so different" means "exactly the same". 100% BULLSHIT. I never used the term "exactly the same". You were the one who made that up. All I ever said was that Trump was including himself in the "good gene" pool by saying he was the same (never "exactly the same") as the white crowd he was talking to. |