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Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +--- Thread: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead (/Thread-Hamas-Attacks-Israel-70-Israelis-198-Palestinians-Dead) |
RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - GMDino - 10-07-2023 (10-07-2023, 04:43 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: I don’t think the $6 billion for Iran has been brought up in here yet. I’m assuming that’s what they’re referring to. It was brought up very quickly on social media. Saying "our tax dollars" funded the attack. Of course that's not true but never let an opportunity to lie about your opponent I guess. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Dill - 10-07-2023 (10-07-2023, 03:59 PM)pally Wrote: It is interesting to note that board opinions on coverage follow party lines. Everyone reads into the coverage what their personal biases want them to see. Some are "personally biased" towards ideals like "accurate description should preceded analysis," and "analysis should precede moral judgment" though, wouldn't you say? Also some deploy different value judgements, so that leads to different results consistent with those differences as well. (E.g., how one thinks about universal human rights plays a determinative role in individual judgment.) But if you frame differing responses to coverage as just "personal biases" it sounds like nobody is doing any work beyond their first, uniformed hunch. There is surely some difference between those who just bend every new event into confirmation of rigid, pre-existing ideological conclusions and those who make understanding causes and conditions on the ground their first priority, so conclusions follow, rather than lead judgment. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - GMDino - 10-07-2023 (10-07-2023, 04:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: It was brought up very quickly on social media. Saying "our tax dollars" funded the attack. You'll never guess who is spreading the lie! ![]() <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">
RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Dill - 10-07-2023 (10-07-2023, 04:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: It was brought up very quickly on social media. Saying "our tax dollars" funded the attack. It was Iran's money, released from a South Korean Bank, with conditions for humanitarian use. But the argument will be that by releasing that money, it will allow money currently spent on humanitarian needs to be shifted to nefarious purposes. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Arturo Bandini - 10-07-2023 It's a massive intelligence failure indeed. They really didn't see it coming. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Millhouse - 10-07-2023 (10-07-2023, 04:55 PM)Dill Wrote: It's a complicated situation, Mill. Again, I will stand with Israel over a terrorist group backed by Iran. President Joe Biden said the U.S. will stand with Israel as he called Hamas a "terrorist organization". This not to say I am entirely pro-Israel and anti-Palestine., as I'm not. And I'm very well aware of the complexities that exist in that part of the world, which has been ongoing for thousands of years. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Dill - 10-07-2023 (10-07-2023, 05:23 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Again, I will stand with Israel over a terrorist group backed by Iran. President Joe Biden said the U.S. will stand with Israel as he called Hamas a "terrorist organization". This not to say I am entirely pro-Israel and anti-Palestine., as I'm not. No problem, Mill. Though for me the "terrorist" designation is not enough. I still want to know more about the motives for the attack and the timing. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Matt_Crimson - 10-07-2023 (10-07-2023, 05:29 PM)Dill Wrote: I still want to know more about the motives for the attack and the timing. Well the timing appears to coincide with what's known as the holiday of "Simchat Torah". I don't know all the specifics of the holiday but apparently no work or travel is permitted on this day. But of course that's only part of the reason, there's definitely more to the "why now". But I think it's important to point out that this wasn't just an attack. It was essentially a "declaration" of war. Hamas has apparently claimed they're prepared to go all in on this incursion. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - TheLeonardLeap - 10-08-2023 People like to mention death tolls between the two sides to make Israel look bad. As if it's okay to send thousands of rockets at civilians because they are spending millions of dollars to run a system to protect themselves better and have bomb shelters built into their homes. They don't die as much because of that, so they clearly are the baddies. Hamas is literally going door-to-door gunning down Israeli families in Sderot. They are gunning people down in the streets, gunning them down when they see them in their cars. There is no "two sides of the story" to intentionally and deliberately going around and slaughtering civilians. https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/07/hamas-announces-beginning-of-a-new-operation-against-israel-launching-thousands-of-rockets RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - pally - 10-08-2023 (10-07-2023, 06:04 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Well the timing appears to coincide with what's known as the holiday of "Simchat Torah". I don't know all the specifics of the holiday but apparently no work or travel is permitted on this day. But of course that's only part of the reason, there's definitely more to the "why now". The more significant date is the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War. This attack was a massive failure of Israeli intelligence. An attack this large and coordinated was months (if not years) in the making. For Mossad not to have any inkling that this was planned is stunning. It’s almost unbelievable. Did they get complacent and miss signs? RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - masonbengals fan - 10-08-2023 These sadistic & horrific acts of violence should be universally condemned. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - basballguy - 10-08-2023 (10-08-2023, 09:55 AM)pally Wrote: The more significant date is the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War. And there it is. The left talking point. How dare Israel not foresee an unprecedented attack. It must be their own fault RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - pally - 10-08-2023 (10-08-2023, 10:25 AM)basballguy Wrote: And there it is. The left talking point. How dare Israel not foresee an unprecedented attack. It must be their own fault Bulls***!!!!!!!! I didn't say or even imply that. You read it with the mindset "Pally is a liberal therefore she hates Israel" which speaks to your own biases not mine. 9/11 was not the fault of the United States. However, 9/11 represented a massive failure of our various intelligence services...intelligence was ignored, misinterpreted, and not shared. Mossad is famous worldwide for its level of expertise and rightly so. But if I were sitting in Tel Aviv, I would be asking how this could happen without anyone knowing anything. And if the Israeli government doesn't investigate why they didn't have a clue, then they are failing their citizens. Israel was the victim of a massive terrorist attack. Israel was failed by their intelligence service missing something this massive. Both are equally true RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - basballguy - 10-08-2023 (10-08-2023, 10:43 AM)pally Wrote: Bulls***!!!!!!!! What terrorist attack isn’t a failure of intelligence? It’s like saying if a reckless driver hits my car it was a massive failure on my behalf for not driving better. It’s low hanging fruit to focus on that aspect. It’s a deflection. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Sled21 - 10-08-2023 (10-07-2023, 05:17 PM)Dill Wrote: It was Iran's money, released from a South Korean Bank, with conditions for humanitarian use. That's actually not an argument, it is a fact. Iran didn't waste any time sending Hamas those rockets. And now the Hezbos are attacking RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Sled21 - 10-08-2023 And now they are reporting 600 dead Israelis, and a number of the Israelis being held hostage are American citizens. No more "Proportional response BS." That allows your enemy to factor if an attack is worth it. Israel needs to absolutely decimate Hamas and the Hezbo, and if Lebanon bitches decimate them as well. The only way this ever stops is to make people too afraid to attack.... which was the way the US used to be. Remember about 4 years agonwhen the middle east was signing historic peace deals? RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - pally - 10-08-2023 (10-08-2023, 10:47 AM)basballguy Wrote: What terrorist attack isn’t a failure of intelligence? It’s like saying if a reckless driver hits my car it was a massive failure on my behalf for not driving better. This wasn't your average suicide bomber who blows himself up in a cafe terrorist attack. This was a military assault involving land, air, and sea and hundreds of attackers. Hamas tunneled underneath the most heavily fortified checkpoint the Israelis have. This was not planned overnight or even in the last 2 weeks it was months in the planning How in the world did Mossad miss it? And you may call it low-hanging fruit but with the amount of resources Mossad gets from not only the Israeli government but US government as well it shouldn't have been a surprise. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - NATI BENGALS - 10-08-2023 (10-08-2023, 10:25 AM)basballguy Wrote: And there it is. The left talking point. How dare Israel not foresee an unprecedented attack. It must be their own fault Ok so the left talking point is based on fact. Intelligence failure allowed the attack to happen. The right talking point is based on bullshit. The attacks are Biden’s fault for making a deal to free American prisoners. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Dill - 10-08-2023 (10-08-2023, 10:43 AM)pally Wrote: Bulls***!!!!!!!! LOL So you blame America for 9/11 too! ![]() Seriously, though, I think some Mossad heads will roll, when this thing is finally settled. There is another concern here, too. If this ATTACK was so well planned, then what about the coming DEFENSE of Gaza? Hamas knew it could not hold territory in Israel, and that the Israeli response would be massive and deadly. They had to know that Netanyahu would prefer attack to negotiation and build that into their planning. Hamas can't fight back against airpower. But they know most Israelis would want to rescue hostages, and so would not indiscriminately flatten an area throughout which hostages are distributed (though some on the Israeli right want to flatten it anyway). This is not like previously kidnappings to exchange for prisoners. I'm thinking Hamas WANTS a ground incursion into GAZA to rescue hostages, that such an incursion would be a planned for "second phase." If so, the hostages are likely dead no matter what, along with 10s of thousands of Palestinian civilians. But the grind through prepared defensive positions in Gaza will cost many more IDF lives than previous ones. It is not easy to fathom what the endgame of all this could be. I don't see any "win" here for Hamas unless the battle for Gaza can widen the war, either kinetically, into the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and possibly Jordan, or politically, producing pressure on Israel to end the occupation, forcing Gulf states to back out of the Abraham Accords, and perhaps triggering UN intervention to protect two million civilians who cannot escape war in their open air prison. This is all just a guess. Seems like neither the US nor Israel understand the terrain of this war very well at all. If they don't, then neither does the international press, who are reporting the war for us. If Hamas was able to amass such power, it means supply connections with other states/groups were functioning at very high level while completely out of sight. Fog of war for sure. RE: Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead - Dill - 10-08-2023 (10-08-2023, 10:56 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And now they are reporting 600 dead Israelis, and a number of the Israelis being held hostage are American citizens. No more "Proportional response BS." That allows your enemy to factor if an attack is worth it. Israel needs to absolutely decimate* Hamas and the Hezbo, and if Lebanon bitches decimate them as well. The only way this ever stops is to make people too afraid to attack.... which was the way the US used to be. Remember about 4 years agonwhen the middle east was signing historic peace deals? Actually, Israel has never been big on "proportional response." What you are recommending here doesn't differ from policies already favored by Netanyahu and before him Sharon --i.e., "making people too afraid to attack." That's not as easy as it looks when the "people" in question have been under military occupation for generations. In 1982 Sharon led the IDF into Lebanon and they took Beirut. The goal was to get rid of PLO training camps south of Beirut, which they accomplished (5,000 fighters were transferred to Tunisia). But the destruction and costly occupation created Hezbollah, a much more formidable enemy than eiither Hamas or the PLO, where no such enemy had been before. Anyway, the kind of "decimation" you propose would not likely be tolerated by Israel's neighbors or most of the UN. Were they able to accomplish it, it would merely set the stage another generation of violence and instability. Not sure what point you are making with reference to the peace deals. They are likely one reason for attack under way now, maybe even the immediate cause. *"Decimate" means to kill every tenth one. It was a Roman punishment used on military units which failed in their duty. |