+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Cincinnati-Bengals-NFL)
+--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-JUNGLE-NOISE)
+--- Thread: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase (/Thread-Report-Burrow-pushing-for-Bengals-to-draft-Chase)
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - coachmcneil71 - 04-02-2021
(04-02-2021, 01:54 PM)Synric Wrote: Dun dun dun.
https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2021/04/02/bengals-jamarr-chase-smokescreens-nfl-draft/
I like everything that Chase brings, but at this point the hype is getting a little ridiculous.
Smith, Pitts, Waddle, Bateman, Toney, Terry, Marshall.....That's just off of the top of my head. All of these players are going to be difference makers.
It's not Chase then everyone else blows. That is what is currently being blown out of proportion around here.
Much like last years draft.
We could have had the DROTY and a mobile Jalen Hurts last draft. Instead we got a great young talented leader that received a severe injury. It's all a matter of perspective.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Whatever - 04-02-2021
(04-02-2021, 01:54 PM)Synric Wrote: Dun dun dun.
https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2021/04/02/bengals-jamarr-chase-smokescreens-nfl-draft/
But was said assistant aware that we cut Bobby Hart?
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Shake n Blake - 04-02-2021
(04-02-2021, 01:23 AM)Whatever Wrote: But they were still primarily drafting defense in the 1st, which certainly isn't glamorous. They also spent 4 2nd's on defense in that time frame, meaning they took more defense than offense in the first and second rounds through the '90's.
Blake was benched and only started 2 games in '98, so saying he was a solid QB at that point is a big stretch. In retrospect, we should have taken the trade, but they got locked in...on one guy...who played for Oregon. You know, since you reminded me of Fisher in the other thread, do you think there's a reason why whenever the Bengals spend a high pick on a guy from Oregon they turn out to be a complete bust?
Blake only started 2 games in '98 because we kept trying to replace him with fancy new toys. In 98 the new toy was Neil O'Donnell, who promptly went 2-9 while our QB's were sacked 53 times...because Mike refused to put his priorities where they belonged. On. The. Line.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Whatever - 04-02-2021
(04-02-2021, 06:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Blake only started 2 games in '98 because we kept trying to replace him with fancy new toys. In 98 the new toy was Neil O'Donnell, who promptly went 2-9 while our QB's were sacked 53 times...because Mike refused to put his priorities where they belonged. On. The. Line.
Blake only started twice, but took 15 of those 53 sacks in those two starts. Those sack numbers are inflated by his abysmal QB play. Solid indeed. Their W-L record sucked because they had the 17th ranked offense, but 28th ranked defense, not because of OL.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Frank Booth - 04-02-2021
(04-02-2021, 07:38 PM)Whatever Wrote: Blake only started twice, but took 15 of those 53 sacks in those two starts. Those sack numbers are inflated by his abysmal QB play. Solid indeed. Their W-L record sucked because they had the 17th ranked offense, but 28th ranked defense, not because of OL.
yea guys, it turns out the 1998 bengals actually had a good offensive line
some of the posters here are gold, Jerry. Gold
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Shake n Blake - 04-02-2021
(04-02-2021, 07:41 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: yea guys, it turns out the 1998 bengals actually had a good offensive line
some of the posters here are gold, Jerry. Gold
The mental hoops some will go through...
The funniest part to me is how the people claiming to be so objective and carefree about who we take are arguing the hardest and have by far the most posts in these threads.
I'm over this debate, frankly. The national media and other fanbases seem to know who we should pick. Probably because it's common sense. If we take Chase though, so be it. Hopefully we'll finally strike gold on later o-line picks.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Nately120 - 04-02-2021
(04-02-2021, 06:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Blake only started 2 games in '98 because we kept trying to replace him with fancy new toys. In 98 the new toy was Neil O'Donnell, who promptly went 2-9 while our QB's were sacked 53 times...because Mike refused to put his priorities where they belonged. On. The. Line.
Man, a fanbase getting 1998 Neil O'Donnell as their "fancy new toy" is right up there with that fateful Christmas when my cousin asked for a Nintendo and got a dart board.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - jason - 04-02-2021
(04-02-2021, 11:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Man, a fanbase getting 1998 Neil O'Donnell as their "fancy new toy" is right up there with that fateful Christmas when my cousin asked for a Nintendo and got a dart board.
The man was like 3 years removed putting the Steelers on his back and elevating the play of his teammates and all of the other hyperbole we hear about Super Bowl QBs.
But yeah... Swing and a miss on that guy. Let's try Gus Ferrotte. Scott Mitchell maybe?
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Murdock2420 - 04-03-2021
(04-02-2021, 03:17 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I like everything that Chase brings, but at this point the hype is getting a little ridiculous.
Smith, Waddle, Bateman,Toney,Terry, Marshall.....That's just off of the top of my head. All of these players are going to be difference makers.
It's not Chase then everyone else blows. That is what is currently being blown out of proportion around here.
Much like last years draft.
I actually read a report about the 1st WR taken inside of a report that wrote about Chase not being special.
Keep in mind, there is one thing you can bet on (in NFL scouting) and win every time – whatever WR prospect the NFL deems as ‘the best’, the first (or second) WR taken in drafts…then that/those wide receiver(s) FOR SURE will NOT be the best NFL WRs from that particular draft within 1-3 years of looking back.
In 2020, Ruggs-Jeudy went #1-2 off the board and that was a monumental mistake. Those guys aren’t even in the top 5-10 among WR talents from that class. That doesn’t mean they stink…just means they are not ‘the best’ or ‘elite’…or worthy of such high draft picks.
In 2019, Marquise Brown and N’Keal Harry were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Deebo Samuel, A.J. Brown, D.K. Metcalf, Diontae Johnson, Terry McLaurin were taken later.
In 2018, D.J. Moore and Calvin Ridley were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Courtland Sutton, D.J. Chark, and Michael Gallup fell.
In 2017, Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross went in the first 10 picks of the draft. Kenny Golladay went #96. Curtis Samuel and Cooper Kupp went in the 2nd-round.
You get the idea. But it’s important to re-state – THEIR consensus ‘best’ WR is not to be immediately trusted or accepted…when THEY say some WR prospect is the best, it’s usually more likely a sign that they are NOT.
If you want to read the entire write up about why Chase isn't a lock of a prospect, it's here:
https://assets-global.website-files.com/5988f684fda8db00017f4dee/602bca631570bef89eff884d_CFM21_WR-s_Chase_JaMarr.pdf
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Nately120 - 04-03-2021
(04-02-2021, 11:30 PM)jason Wrote: The man was like 3 years removed putting the Steelers on his back and elevating the play of his teammates and all of the other hyperbole we hear about Super Bowl QBs.
But yeah... Swing and a miss on that guy. Let's try Gus Ferrotte. Scott Mitchell maybe?
3 years removed from a SB and 0 years removed from being one of the biggest FA busts ever. Wonder who gets SB MVP Foles next now that he's gone something like 2-10 in Jacksonville and Chicago.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Murdock2420 - 04-03-2021
(04-03-2021, 12:07 AM)Nately120 Wrote: 3 years removed from a SB and 0 years removed from being one of the biggest FA busts ever. Wonder who gets SB MVP Foles next now that he's gone something like 2-10 in Jacksonville and Chicago.
Bengals to start the 2022 season for the rehabbing Burrow?
In all seriousness, I could see the Panthers giving it the old college try after another season of lackluster QB play.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - coachmcneil71 - 04-03-2021
(04-03-2021, 12:05 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I actually read a report about the 1st WR taken inside of a report that wrote about Chase not being special.
Keep in mind, there is one thing you can bet on (in NFL scouting) and win every time – whatever WR prospect the NFL deems as ‘the best’, the first (or second) WR taken in drafts…then that/those wide receiver(s) FOR SURE will NOT be the best NFL WRs from that particular draft within 1-3 years of looking back.
In 2020, Ruggs-Jeudy went #1-2 off the board and that was a monumental mistake. Those guys aren’t even in the top 5-10 among WR talents from that class. That doesn’t mean they stink…just means they are not ‘the best’ or ‘elite’…or worthy of such high draft picks.
In 2019, Marquise Brown and N’Keal Harry were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Deebo Samuel, A.J. Brown, D.K. Metcalf, Diontae Johnson, Terry McLaurin were taken later.
In 2018, D.J. Moore and Calvin Ridley were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Courtland Sutton, D.J. Chark, and Michael Gallup fell.
In 2017, Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross went in the first 10 picks of the draft. Kenny Golladay went #96. Curtis Samuel and Cooper Kupp went in the 2nd-round.
You get the idea. But it’s important to re-state – THEIR consensus ‘best’ WR is not to be immediately trusted or accepted…when THEY say some WR prospect is the best, it’s usually more likely a sign that they are NOT.
If you want to read the entire write up about why Chase isn't a lock of a prospect, it's here:
https://assets-global.website-files.com/5988f684fda8db00017f4dee/602bca631570bef89eff884d_CFM21_WR-s_Chase_JaMarr.pdf
Well stated, and right on several levels. That said, I wouldn't be upset if they take Chase at #5, but I wouldn't be upset if they go a different direction either. Just as long as it's not on the Ross/Sample bus. They would have to be completely incompetent to mess this up.
They're often incompetent, but I think they have a few neurons firing this time.
To your point; there will definitely be some unexpected WR or RB that rises from the dust. Jax starting RB was an UDFA last season. "THEY" darn sure didn't pick that one correctly!
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - CarolinaBengalFanGuy - 04-03-2021
(04-03-2021, 12:05 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I actually read a report about the 1st WR taken inside of a report that wrote about Chase not being special.
Keep in mind, there is one thing you can bet on (in NFL scouting) and win every time – whatever WR prospect the NFL deems as ‘the best’, the first (or second) WR taken in drafts…then that/those wide receiver(s) FOR SURE will NOT be the best NFL WRs from that particular draft within 1-3 years of looking back.
In 2020, Ruggs-Jeudy went #1-2 off the board and that was a monumental mistake. Those guys aren’t even in the top 5-10 among WR talents from that class. That doesn’t mean they stink…just means they are not ‘the best’ or ‘elite’…or worthy of such high draft picks.
In 2019, Marquise Brown and N’Keal Harry were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Deebo Samuel, A.J. Brown, D.K. Metcalf, Diontae Johnson, Terry McLaurin were taken later.
In 2018, D.J. Moore and Calvin Ridley were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Courtland Sutton, D.J. Chark, and Michael Gallup fell.
In 2017, Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross went in the first 10 picks of the draft. Kenny Golladay went #96. Curtis Samuel and Cooper Kupp went in the 2nd-round.
You get the idea. But it’s important to re-state – THEIR consensus ‘best’ WR is not to be immediately trusted or accepted…when THEY say some WR prospect is the best, it’s usually more likely a sign that they are NOT.
If you want to read the entire write up about why Chase isn't a lock of a prospect, it's here:
https://assets-global.website-files.com/5988f684fda8db00017f4dee/602bca631570bef89eff884d_CFM21_WR-s_Chase_JaMarr.pdf
Shit there are a ton of first round busts since 2007. More busts than hits. Only Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, and Julio Jones lived up to some massive hype and I would say there was some pretty huge hype surrounding all 3 of them compared to most.
So many busts it's not even funny. Guys that barely played and didn't even make hardly a mark.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Whatever - 04-03-2021
(04-03-2021, 12:05 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I actually read a report about the 1st WR taken inside of a report that wrote about Chase not being special.
Keep in mind, there is one thing you can bet on (in NFL scouting) and win every time – whatever WR prospect the NFL deems as ‘the best’, the first (or second) WR taken in drafts…then that/those wide receiver(s) FOR SURE will NOT be the best NFL WRs from that particular draft within 1-3 years of looking back.
In 2020, Ruggs-Jeudy went #1-2 off the board and that was a monumental mistake. Those guys aren’t even in the top 5-10 among WR talents from that class. That doesn’t mean they stink…just means they are not ‘the best’ or ‘elite’…or worthy of such high draft picks.
In 2019, Marquise Brown and N’Keal Harry were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Deebo Samuel, A.J. Brown, D.K. Metcalf, Diontae Johnson, Terry McLaurin were taken later.
In 2018, D.J. Moore and Calvin Ridley were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Courtland Sutton, D.J. Chark, and Michael Gallup fell.
In 2017, Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross went in the first 10 picks of the draft. Kenny Golladay went #96. Curtis Samuel and Cooper Kupp went in the 2nd-round.
You get the idea. But it’s important to re-state – THEIR consensus ‘best’ WR is not to be immediately trusted or accepted…when THEY say some WR prospect is the best, it’s usually more likely a sign that they are NOT.
If you want to read the entire write up about why Chase isn't a lock of a prospect, it's here:
https://assets-global.website-files.com/5988f684fda8db00017f4dee/602bca631570bef89eff884d_CFM21_WR-s_Chase_JaMarr.pdf
You can say that about almost any position group in any year. Andrew Thomas wasn't the best OL taken in '20. Jonah wasn't the best OL taken in '19. Garrett Bolles wasn't the best OL taken in '17. The odds are always mathematically stacked against the first player taken at any position group because there are literally dozens of other players picked behind them. Players at every position group fall through the cracks every year. You can't not take a guy because you're afraid that a guy later in the draft might turn out to be better.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Nicomo Cosca - 04-03-2021
(04-03-2021, 02:27 AM)Whatever Wrote: You can say that about almost any position group in any year. Andrew Thomas wasn't the best OL taken in '20. Jonah wasn't the best OL taken in '19. Garrett Bolles wasn't the best OL taken in '17. The odds are always mathematically stacked against the first player taken at any position group because there are literally dozens of other players picked behind them. Players at every position group fall through the cracks every year. You can't not take a guy because you're afraid that a guy later in the draft might turn out to be better.
Yep. I would have thought that was pretty obvious. It’s basically one guy vs the field.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Whatever - 04-03-2021
(04-03-2021, 02:33 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. I would have thought that was pretty obvious. It’s basically one guy vs the field.
Yup. It's unlikely Sewell will be the best OL drafted this year, especially with the strength of this year's OL class. That's not a reason to pass on him either, though.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Joelist - 04-03-2021
That "article" is also wrong in a lot of places. It claimed Chase was a 4.5 speed receiver and that his vertical is nothing special....well he CONSISTENTLY showed 4.4 speed in 2019 and just did 4.38 at his workout. Also a 41 inch vertical and every other workout result was monster too.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Murdock2420 - 04-03-2021
(04-03-2021, 02:52 AM)Joelist Wrote: That "article" is also wrong in a lot of places. It claimed Chase was a 4.5 speed receiver and that his vertical is nothing special....well he CONSISTENTLY showed 4.4 speed in 2019 and just did 4.38 at his workout. Also a 41 inch vertical and every other workout result was monster too.
I didn't write it or proof read it.
It came up when I was looking for scouting reports on Chase, trying to basically get more comfortable with the reality of him being our #1 pick.
However, the points about the WR's under-performing is valid and his break-down of the games against quality CB's is also valid. Went and watched the film after reading what he wrote and he's got some valid points that should be real concerns. Not saying Chase won't be good, but I think the hype for him on this board has gotten beyond out of control.
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Murdock2420 - 04-03-2021
(04-03-2021, 02:33 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. I would have thought that was pretty obvious. It’s basically one guy vs the field.
I'm curious if it is due to the guy having so much pressure being a top pick and having such high expectations...
or
Good player going to a bad team, so he never reaches his full potential...
or
Combination of both?
RE: Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase - Fichidius - 04-03-2021
(04-03-2021, 12:05 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I actually read a report about the 1st WR taken inside of a report that wrote about Chase not being special.
Keep in mind, there is one thing you can bet on (in NFL scouting) and win every time – whatever WR prospect the NFL deems as ‘the best’, the first (or second) WR taken in drafts…then that/those wide receiver(s) FOR SURE will NOT be the best NFL WRs from that particular draft within 1-3 years of looking back.
In 2020, Ruggs-Jeudy went #1-2 off the board and that was a monumental mistake. Those guys aren’t even in the top 5-10 among WR talents from that class. That doesn’t mean they stink…just means they are not ‘the best’ or ‘elite’…or worthy of such high draft picks.
In 2019, Marquise Brown and N’Keal Harry were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Deebo Samuel, A.J. Brown, D.K. Metcalf, Diontae Johnson, Terry McLaurin were taken later.
In 2018, D.J. Moore and Calvin Ridley were the #1-2/only 1st-round WRs taken…as Courtland Sutton, D.J. Chark, and Michael Gallup fell.
In 2017, Corey Davis, Mike Williams, and John Ross went in the first 10 picks of the draft. Kenny Golladay went #96. Curtis Samuel and Cooper Kupp went in the 2nd-round.
You get the idea. But it’s important to re-state – THEIR consensus ‘best’ WR is not to be immediately trusted or accepted…when THEY say some WR prospect is the best, it’s usually more likely a sign that they are NOT.
If you want to read the entire write up about why Chase isn't a lock of a prospect, it's here:
https://assets-global.website-files.com/5988f684fda8db00017f4dee/602bca631570bef89eff884d_CFM21_WR-s_Chase_JaMarr.pdf
That was a somewhat interesting read. It's very contrary to popular opinion.
According to the article every good play Chase had against good teams was the result of illegal pick/rub plays or Jefferson/CEH somehow getting him open. Said watching Chase just made it obvious how much better Jefferson and Clyde Edwards-Helaire are than Chase. Said there wasn't a single play by Chase that made him say "wow".
The article writer also thought he would not be a good athlete (said all of his physical attributes are meh) and that he should skip his pro day because his measurements wouldn't be any good. Has no vertical ability and would be 4.5+ in the 40 yard dash. They were dead on for his 3-cone though saying it would be +-7.00 which is exactly what he ran though. They couldn't have been more wrong about rest with him testing like a 99th percentile athlete.
Ends the article saying Chase should be a 3rd or 4th round pick at best.
"My one sentence scouting summary – Ja’Marr Chase is not special." - R.C. Fisher (the author of the article)