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+---- Thread: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question (/Thread-Transgender-Bathroom-Locker-Room-Question)
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - fredtoast - 05-10-2016
More criticism of McHughs position with plenty of cites to peer reviewed studies
Unfortunately, it appears that McHugh has decided to ignore the growing body of neurological and genetic research providing evidence of a biological basis for gender dysphoria. A 2009 study found a correlation between an increased number of a certain kind of sequence repeat in the Androgen Receptor gene and gender dysphoria. Another study in 2009 identified significant differences in cerebral grey matter structure in trans women who had yet to start hormone therapy when compared to cis men. In 2011, researchers noted that the structure of a sexually-dimorphic region of the brain, known as the intermediate nucleus, of trans women fell somewhere between cis men and cis women, while a similar difference was not noted castrated cis men. A 2013 functional brain imaging study of adolescents with gender dysphoria demonstrated a tendency for trans teens to perform more similarly to their identified sex (as opposed to their assigned sex) in a verbal fluency assessment, with similar correlation in brain activity during the assessment. Lastly, in 2013, a large study of monozygotic (identical) and dizygotic (fraternal) twins where at least one twin was transgender showed a far higher concordance of a diagnosis of gender dysphoria among monozygotic than dizygotic twins (33% vs 2.6%), which is strong indicator the existence of a biological factor in a trait. While much of the research into the biological aspects of trans people is still very new, Dr McHugh’s assertion that no evidence for a biological basis for trans identities demonstrates a deplorable ignorance of current medical research.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 05-10-2016
(05-10-2016, 06:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So when are you ggoing to actually discuss soem of the scientific claims instead of crying ab out how anyone who is from the other side can not be believed because he is biased?
You are amazing. You might want to go back and see how this back and forth started. I simply posted an article by DR McHale and you immediately dismissed it calling him a schill and a fraud. I have not said anything about the "scientific claims" you presented. I simply found it hilarious that you posted an opinion piece from Transadvocate with the post "for anyone that wants to know the real science".
I suppose now we can look forward to your scouring the internet to find articles that points to Transgender being Genetic, Save your time. You will most likely find if they are written by those that follow/ study/ practice psychology it will point to an occurrence in the brain/thought. If you find it is written by those that follow/study/practice genetic it will point to the genetics. In either case evidence can be disputed.
But to show I'm a man of my word. I did look up the accolades of the expert that wrote the opinion piece on Transadvocate (And before you say it is not an opinion piece again. Look at what it says beside the author's name)
MARI BRIGHE:
Does not ignore science because of religion
A genetics researcher
A phd student
Writes opinion pieces for Autostraddle, Transadvocate (pretty sure she works for tips), and Huffington post
Has a website called transnerdfeminist.com
You can follow here on twitter @ marithetnf
unfortunately I couldn't find much on her education or career accomplishments.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - fredtoast - 05-10-2016
(05-10-2016, 07:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You are amazing. You might want to go back and see how this back and forth started. I simply posted an article by DR McHale and you immediately dismissed it calling him a schill and a fraud. I have not said anything about the "scientific claims" you presented. I simply found it hilarious that you posted an opinion piece from Transadvocate with the post "for anyone that wants to know the real science".
I suppose now we can look forward to your scouring the internet to find articles that points to Transgender being Genetic, Save your time. You will most likely find if they are written by those that follow/ study/ practice psychology it will point to an occurrence in the brain/thought. If you find it is written by those that follow/study/practice genetic it will point to the genetics. In either case evidence can be disputed.
But to show I'm a man of my word. I did look up the accolades of the expert that wrote the opinion piece on Transadvocate (And before you say it is not an opinion piece again. Look at what it says beside the author's name)
MARI BRIGHE:
Does not ignore science because of religion
A genetics researcher
A phd student
Writes opinion pieces for Autostraddle, Transadvocate (pretty sure she works for tips), and Huffington post
Has a website called transnerdfeminist.com
You can follow here on twitter @ marithetnf
unfortunately I couldn't find much on her education or career accomplishments.
Wow, you are really afraid to address the actual content aren't you? Just proves you have no response to your guy McHugh being proven wrong.
What you are doing is the equivalent of making an argument in front of the Supreme Court based on the class rank of the opposing attorney or who he represents instead of the law cited in his argument. It is a joke.
"I ask the Court to take notice of the fact that opposing counsel is from the ACLU. Therefore his argument must be biased and wrong. He also finished in the bottom half of his class in law school. Just ask him if he tipped the authority he cited. . . . I rest my case."
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 05-10-2016
(05-10-2016, 07:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow, you are really afraid to address the actual content aren't you? Just proves you have no response to your guy McHugh being proven wrong.
What you are doing is the equivalent of making an argument in front of the Supreme Court based on the class rank of the opposing attorney or who he represents instead of the law cited in his argument. It is a joke.
"I ask the Court to take notice of the fact that opposing counsel is from the ACLU. Therefore his argument must be biased and wrong. He also finished in the bottom half of his class in law school. Just ask him if he tipped the authority he cited. . . . I rest my case."
I clicked on the links provided in the opinion piece you claimed to be the real science. There were a couple papers from 2009 from the Netherlands that said it was caused by a rearrangement of gray matter in the brain. There was a Nature v. Nurture debate in a study conducted in Hawaii, I'm sure there were a couple other non-disputable studies. I think you posted one article that proved him wrong that ended by saying more data was needed
I've already wasted more time on this than it deserves. Folks can read this back and forth and decide for themselves who has shown to be the joke.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - BmorePat87 - 05-10-2016
(05-10-2016, 05:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So your position is that Dr McHugh doesn't cite any science in his studies? I want to be fair.
Did you tip the aurthor?
No, I said that someone who has to cite religion will lose a science debate. What place does his personal views on morality have in a discussion about a biological basis for being gay and trans?
The fact that he uses decades old notions over modern findings when discussing the science is what puts the nail in the coffin.
I'm just happy you're not saying that he's being dismissed merely because he's religious.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - StLucieBengal - 05-11-2016
Dear lord .... Bfine found an expert with impressive credentials. Certainly worthy enough to consider that source an expert.
Now you guys have your pro ______ source. For you they are expert enough.
To trash an expert only because he believes in God as well as science is ridiculous. Personally I like my experts to be diverse. A belief in God doesn't change the data he has came up with ...
How about Instead of besmirching him as an expert here you can just agree to disagree. That is unless you guys are gonna stick with the transadvocate writer and go to the mattresses with them. That will certainly end all complaints of sources around here....
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - BmorePat87 - 05-11-2016
People really should learn how to read.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - StLucieBengal - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 02:01 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: People really should learn how to read.
Relax francis .... we don't all subscribe to the transadvocate. Is the swimsuit issue the favorite one for the year?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - BmorePat87 - 05-11-2016
I'll just assume he's posting more nonsense since there's no basis to his irrational hatred of people who are different than him.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 01:52 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Dear lord .... Bfine found an expert with impressive credentials. Certainly worthy enough to consider that source an expert.
Now you guys have your pro ______ source. For you they are expert enough.
To trash an expert only because he believes in God as well as science is ridiculous. Personally I like my experts to be diverse. A belief in God doesn't change the data he has came up with ...
How about Instead of besmirching him as an expert here you can just agree to disagree. That is unless you guys are gonna stick with the transadvocate writer and go to the mattresses with them. That will certainly end all complaints of sources around here....
No one did that.
What each person said was that he tended to ignore the science and make his conclusions based on his religion.
If he was a preacher that would be A-OK.
As a scientist he needs to leave that aside when looking at studies and results.
1+1=2.
You can say that is not true because your holy book says 1+1=1.
You can still be bright and well educated and be biased.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Vlad - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 08:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: No one did that.
What each person said was that he tended to ignore the science and make his conclusions based on his religion.
If he was a preacher that would be A-OK.
As a scientist he needs to leave that aside when looking at studies and results.
1+1=2.
You can say that is not true because your holy book says 1+1=1.
You can still be bright and well educated and be biased.
What does your holy book say?
You go to church every Sunday correct?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 09:34 AM)Vlad Wrote: What does your holy book say?
You go to church every Sunday correct?
That's not the point at all.
I am not saying it is wrong to believe what your religion teaches you. I'm saying you can't use it to ignore everything else and then be called an "expert".
If your math teacher insisted that 1+1=1 no matter what the rest of the world said only because of her religion she would be a bad math teacher no matter how many years of study she had or the number of letters after her name.
It's not about denying anyone their beliefs...it's about their belief creating a bias about the results.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 05-11-2016
Meanwhile in South Carolina....
![[Image: CiLTwPrUoAQlKXz.jpg:large]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiLTwPrUoAQlKXz.jpg:large)
https://t.co/DxWAXYQe1m
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Vas Deferens - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 11:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: Meanwhile in South Carolina....
https://t.co/DxWAXYQe1m
Looking forward to hearing some of these [*]phobes justify this.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Rotobeast - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 11:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: Meanwhile in South Carolina....
https://t.co/DxWAXYQe1m
Regardless of personal opinion, I think we all know that will not end well.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 11:50 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Regardless of personal opinion, I think we all know that will not end well.
Yep.
But it is the culture of fear that is being pushed as a political agenda.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - SteelCitySouth - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 11:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: Meanwhile in South Carolina....
https://t.co/DxWAXYQe1m
Dude.....It was NC not SC....
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Belsnickel - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 11:54 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Dude.....It was NC not SC....
Is there really a difference?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 11:54 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Dude.....It was NC not SC....
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - SteelCitySouth - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 12:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Is there really a difference?
Yes. 2 letters.