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+---- Thread: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question (/Thread-Transgender-Bathroom-Locker-Room-Question)
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 05-12-2016
(05-12-2016, 04:18 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: People often seem confused when anyone is discussing these issues and saying "it is in the brain". Obviously everything that defines how we act or perceive the world involves the brain. I think we start having a disconnect when someone reads "in the brain" as completely non physical, or mental, and someone else reads it as physical and mental.
Obviously being trans has something to do with your brain, just as being left handed does. I think most who reject the argument that it's a choice or an illness are only contending that it is not purely mental, there's a physical component behind it too that is inherent in people.
The biggest difference is you and other like-minded is they think the answer is if the body doesn't match the brain; modify the body. Dr McHugh and others do not see that as a "cure" rather he views it simply as a band-aid that society is willing to accept and more currently cater to. He ignores science by pionting to comprehensive studies that show that those that alter their body kill themselves more often that those that do not (Trans or otherwise).
McHales answer is to modify the brain to match the body, because it is his field of expertise. Some folks aren't willing to buy that because he believes in God. If his advise was simply pray harder then you and others may have a point, w you suggest he ignores science because of religion; however, he points to medications and counseling among other methods. I just tend to agree with McHale: If you modify the body; the brain is still broken.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - BmorePat87 - 05-12-2016
(05-12-2016, 04:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The biggest difference is you and other like-minded is they think the answer is if the body doesn't match the brain; modify the body. Dr McHugh and others do not see that as a "cure" rather he views it simply as a band-aid that society is willing to accept and more currently cater to. He ignores science by pionting to comprehensive studies that show that those that alter their body kill themselves more often that those that do not (Trans or otherwise).
I have never advocated for physical surgery. I have even defended those who do not when ignorant douches here have said "if you're going to be a woman, cut your hog". The surgery is still not perfect, it can be expensive, the results are often undesirable, those who offer it are not always the best/safest, and people tend to regret how poor the results are. Having those results will absolutely cause many to regret their decisions and contemplate suicide.
Quote:McHales answer is to modify the brain to match the body, because it is his field of expertise. Some folks aren't willing to buy that because he believes in God.
You're a smart guy, but, seriously, stop feigning ignorance on this martyr horseshit. No one is rejecting what he says because he believes in god. This very thing has been stated to you nearly a dozen times. It's the fact that he suggests behavior is wrong because it is at odds with his religious beliefs is what is being challenged.
Quote: If his advise was simply pray harder then you and others may have a point, w you suggest he ignores science because of religion; however, he points to medications and counseling among other methods. I just tend to agree with McHale: If you modify the body; the brain is still broken.
No, the fact that he suggests the brain is broken because it goes against his religion is enough. What exactly is wrong with living as that gender without having surgery that modifies the body? Why do they have to subject themselves to therapy aimed at "converting" them? We know that garbage doesn't work with sexual orientation. Do we think it'll work with gender identity?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - BmorePat87 - 05-12-2016
also, props on completely ignoring my post and getting me to address your preferred talking points.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - StLucieBengal - 05-12-2016
(05-12-2016, 10:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I have never advocated for physical surgery. I have even defended those who do not when ignorant douches here have said "if you're going to be a woman, cut your hog". The surgery is still not perfect, it can be expensive, the results are often undesirable, those who offer it are not always the best/safest, and people tend to regret how poor the results are. Having those results will absolutely cause many to regret their decisions and contemplate suicide.
You're a smart guy, but, seriously, stop feigning ignorance on this martyr horseshit. No one is rejecting what he says because he believes in god. This very thing has been stated to you nearly a dozen times. It's the fact that he suggests behavior is wrong because it is at odds with his religious beliefs is what is being challenged.
No, the fact that he suggests the brain is broken because it goes against his religion is enough. What exactly is wrong with living as that gender without having surgery that modifies the body? Why do they have to subject themselves to therapy aimed at "converting" them? We know that garbage doesn't work with sexual orientation. Do we think it'll work with gender identity?
Yeah you are Mr half measure. Do you do everything half? That's the fundamental problem is you allow them this wiggle room to morph into whatever they want..... So they can do anything on whatever whim they come up with and when they come to their senses they can morph back and pretend to be normal.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 05-12-2016
(05-12-2016, 10:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I have never advocated for physical surgery. I have even defended those who do not when ignorant douches here have said "if you're going to be a woman, cut your hog". The surgery is still not perfect, it can be expensive, the results are often undesirable, those who offer it are not always the best/safest, and people tend to regret how poor the results are. Having those results will absolutely cause many to regret their decisions and contemplate suicide.Kind of hard to win with this crowd. McHale cites a study that shows that Trans that have undergone surgery kills themselves much more than their peers. One who thinks McHale doesn't know what he is talking about says you can't blame that on the surgery; another says you can blame that on the surgery.
So what is you suggestion for a man that feels trapped in a woman's body; let him stay there? You would be against someone undergoing assignment surgery and tell them to just wear a dress, heels, and use the ladies room.
You're a smart guy, but, seriously, stop feigning ignorance on this martyr horseshit. No one is rejecting what he says because he believes in god. This very thing has been stated to you nearly a dozen times. It's the fact that he suggests behavior is wrong because it is at odds with his religious beliefs is what is being challenged.
No one is playing the martyr. Simply challenging the same tired catch phrase of "He ignores science, because of his religion", Hell that may have been said on here more than a dozen times. Folks feign on ignorance by suggesting a man such as Dr McHale ignores science. The behavior is "wrong" for reasons outside of religion
No, the fact that he suggests the brain is broken because it goes against his religion is enough. What exactly is wrong with living as that gender without having surgery that modifies the body? Why do they have to subject themselves to therapy aimed at "converting" them? We know that garbage doesn't work with sexual orientation. Do we think it'll work with gender identity?
I was the one that said the brain is broken and it is; to deny that is ignoring science (Remember the gray matter study and the increased rate of suicide that expert at Transadvocate cited). As awful as many here may think it is; sometimes you must conform to society instead of society conforming to you.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 05-13-2016
Looks like POTUS is about to make law aggian:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-issue-decree-transgender-access-school-restrooms-ny-012216218.html
Quote:The Obama administration will issue a sweeping decree on Friday telling every U.S. public school district to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that match their gender identity.
The letter, signed by officials from the Education and Justice departments, does not have the force of law but contains an implicit threat that schools which do not abide by the Obama administration's interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid.
Was I sick on government day when they covered the part where the Executive and Judicial Branches make law?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - StLucieBengal - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 12:18 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Looks like POTUS is about to make law aggian:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-issue-decree-transgender-access-school-restrooms-ny-012216218.html
Was I sick on government day when they covered the part where the Executive and Judicial Branches make law?
But hey he gets things done.....
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 12:18 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Looks like POTUS is about to make law aggian:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-issue-decree-transgender-access-school-restrooms-ny-012216218.html
Was I sick on government day when they covered the part where the Executive and Judicial Branches make law?
Were you sick the day they taught...reading?
Quote:The letter, signed by officials from the Education and Justice departments, does not have the force of law but contains an implicit threat that schools which do not abide by the Obama administration's interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid.
But hey, saying the administration has interpreted a law and wants schools to abide by it is JUST like President Obama making up a new law and just signing it into effect.
Maybe you DID miss "government day"?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 05-13-2016
(05-12-2016, 11:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Kind of hard to win with this crowd. McHale cites a study that shows that Trans that have undergone surgery kills themselves much more than their peers. One who thinks McHale doesn't know what he is talking about says you can't blame that on the surgery; another says you can blame that on the surgery.
That's actually how scientific debate works Larry.
Look at the tests, look at the results, discuss, try and remove personal bias, retest if possible.
Not look at the tests, look at the results, consult magical book, match conclusion with what you were taught to believe as a child in religion class, tell everyone they are wrong if they disagree because you are are very smart.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - BmorePat87 - 05-13-2016
(05-12-2016, 11:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So what is you suggestion for a man that feels trapped in a woman's body; let him stay there? You would be against someone undergoing assignment surgery and tell them to just wear a dress, heels, and use the ladies room.
It's none of my damn business, but I've never sat here and said people should get surgery.
I'm not going to play games with the martyr part. We've had far too many exchanges where you act like this, so I know the outcome.
Quote:I was the one that said the brain is broken and it is; to deny that is ignoring science (Remember the gray matter study and the increased rate of suicide that expert at Transadvocate cited). As awful as many here may think it is; sometimes you must conform to society instead of society conforming to you.
Sometimes things aren't wrong because they're different from what you believe is right and wrong. Being left handed isn't wrong. Being gay isn't wrong. Being trans isn't wrong. Also, no one is asking society to conform, society just can't discriminate because it makes some people feel weird to see others live their lives in a way that doesn't harm anyone.
Quote:Kind of hard to win with this crowd. McHale cites a study that shows that Trans that have undergone surgery kills themselves much more than their peers. One who thinks McHale doesn't know what he is talking about says you can't blame that on the surgery; another says you can blame that on the surgery.
Whoa, people hold opposing views? STOP THE PRESSES!
Seriously, though, the biggest issue I had with McHale was when I read some of his interviews on why being gay was obviously a choice. He cited the fact that in rural areas, you're 4 times less likely to "be gay" and lesbians are more likely to have a college education. As a social scientist, you have to look at this and say "wait, so people who live near or work with people who are more likely to hold liberal views on accepting others are more likely to come out of the closet?". That's a no brainer. People are less likely to be open about parts of their life when those around them are unwilling to accept it? People are more likely to have regret, be depressed, and commit suicide when they're part of a group that is discriminated against, faces far more violence than other groups, and has people telling them they are wrong, immoral, and "broken"? People are more likely to contemplate and commit suicide when they undergo medical procedures that can be unsafe, leave them struggling to pay for it, and still do not produce the outcome that many hope for?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Millhouse - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 12:18 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Looks like POTUS is about to make law aggian:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-issue-decree-transgender-access-school-restrooms-ny-012216218.html
Was I sick on government day when they covered the part where the Executive and Judicial Branches make law?
If President Obozo wants students to use the bathroom of their gender identity, then whatever. But trans kids should have to register their gender identity with the school to make it official.
Funny thing is this law will probably apply to like 9 kids out there across the country. I just cant see a lot of kids coming out as transgender in high school without fear of bullying & getting beat up.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 07:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: That's actually how scientific debate works Larry.
(05-13-2016, 10:47 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Whoa, people hold opposing views? STOP THE PRESSES!
Assuming neither of you see the irony in this with remarks made about McHugh's view and how the Transadvocate "expert" proved him wrong.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 07:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: Were you sick the day they taught...reading?
But hey, saying the administration has interpreted a law and wants schools to abide by it is JUST like President Obama making up a new law and just signing it into effect.
Maybe you DID miss "government day"?
Well, I did say he and the judicial branch did I not? It's happened in the past. Didn't even know it was the Executive's Branch responsibility to interpret law, I must have missed that day as well.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - StLucieBengal - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 11:56 AM)Millhouse Wrote: If President Obozo wants students to use the bathroom of their gender identity, then whatever. But trans kids should have to register their gender identity with the school to make it official.
Funny thing is this law will probably apply to like 9 kids out there across the country. I just cant see a lot of kids coming out as transgender in high school without fear of bullying & getting beat up.
Weirdness is protected now. If you get bullied they suspend the bully.... And I guess now fine their parents in some places as well. There is zero reason to stop being weird because you are not embarrassed out of the weird behavior.
Now we will just see more sexual activity in the bathrooms. Now that Obama wants to allow an anything goes policy in the school bathrooms
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 01:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well, I did say he and the judicial branch did I not? It's happened in the past. Didn't even know it was the Executive's Branch responsibility to interpret law, I must have missed that day as well.
You mean you were wrong and overreacted because you disagree with the view.
Thanks.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - GMDino - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 02:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Weirdness is protected now. If you get bullied they suspend the bully.... And I guess now fine their parents in some places as well. There is zero reason to stop being weird because you are not embarrassed out of the weird behavior.
Now we will just see more sexual activity in the bathrooms. Now that Obama wants to allow an anything goes policy in the school bathrooms
What's wrong with being weird?
Why does everyone have to conform to YOUR version of "normal" whether it be how they raise the kids, how they dress or what sex they want dress as or be?
Maybe if we stopped caring so much about what is "normal" and just cared about each other as human beings we'd go alot further.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 02:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Weirdness is protected now. If you get bullied they suspend the bully.... And I guess now fine their parents in some places as well. There is zero reason to stop being weird because you are not embarrassed out of the weird behavior.
Now we will just see more sexual activity in the bathrooms. Now that Obama wants to allow an anything goes policy in the school bathrooms
Ohhhh the outrage punishing bad parents!!!!
Maybe if they had been taken to a brothel as their right of passage, they wouldn't have gotten so weird!
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - bfine32 - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 02:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: You mean you were wrong and overreacted because you disagree with the view.
Thanks.
If that helps you sleep at night; then yes.
Others can read and decide for themselves what was said.
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 11:56 AM)Millhouse Wrote: If President Obozo wants students to use the bathroom of their gender identity, then whatever. But trans kids should have to register their gender identity with the school to make it official.
Funny thing is this law will probably apply to like 9 kids out there across the country. I just cant see a lot of kids coming out as transgender in high school without fear of bullying & getting beat up.
I agree very few high school transgender kids will come out because of fear of retribution. So with that being said, how do you propose to get them to register? And whose going to monitor the hundreds of thousands of bathrooms across the country to ensure people are using the proper potty's to take a dump?
RE: Transgender Bathroom/Locker Room Question - Vas Deferens - 05-13-2016
(05-13-2016, 02:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Weirdness is protected now. If you get bullied they suspend the bully.... And I guess now fine their parents in some places as well. There is zero reason to stop being weird because you are not embarrassed out of the weird behavior.
Now we will just see more sexual activity in the bathrooms. Now that Obama wants to allow an anything goes policy in the school bathrooms
link?