Storming Of The Capitol Building - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +--- Thread: Storming Of The Capitol Building (/Thread-Storming-Of-The-Capitol-Building) |
RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - BrownAssClown - 04-02-2021 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/noah-green-farrakhan.html https://www.mediaite.com/crime/breaking-suspect-killed-in-capitol-car-attack-identified/ RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Tiger Teeth - 04-03-2021 (04-02-2021, 08:17 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/noah-green-farrakhan.html He was probably in a hurry to hug and kiss some cops. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - GMDino - 04-03-2021 (04-03-2021, 04:42 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: He was probably in a hurry to hug and kiss some cops. No, this time it seems another extremist who thought he found a path and so didn't deal with his own demons and ended up killing someone else. https://nypost.com/2021/04/02/suspect-who-smashed-into-barrier-at-us-capitol-identified-reports/ Quote:The driver who killed a US Capitol cop before he was gunned down by police is a Nation of Islam devotee from Indiana, according to reports and his social media. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/02/noah-green-went-from-football-player-posting-extremist-groups/7068100002/ Quote:WASHINGTON — The man who police say rammed his car into a security barrier at the U.S. Capitol on Friday and was fatally shot by police after emerging from the vehicle with a knife was a lifelong athlete who in recent months had shown growing support on social media for Louis Farrakhan and the extremist Nation of Islam group. The usual suspects can now tell us "See!! It isn't just Trump supporters and right wing extremists!!" As if anyone every said that was ALL there was when all we did was just NOT ignore that they are there and really bad. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 04-03-2021 (04-03-2021, 09:32 AM)GMDino Wrote: No, this time it seems another extremist who thought he found a path and so didn't deal with his own demons and ended up killing someone else. You ignore it all the time. You even post smarmy dad tier memes about Antifa. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - TheUberHuber - 04-05-2021 https://www.vice.com/en/article/wx8wkb/republican-voters-are-eating-up-right-wing-lies-about-the-capitol-riot Republican Voters Are Eating Up Right-Wing Lies About the Capitol Riot Half of Republicans now believe the deadly insurrection was staged or that it was “mostly peaceful.” PB By Paul Blest April 5, 2021, 6:45am The United States Capitol Building in Washington, D.C. was breached by thousands of protesters during a "Stop The Steal" rally in support of President Donald Trump during the worldwide coronavirus pandemic, 1/6/21 (Mihoko Owada/STAR MAX/IPx File) STAR MAX FILE PHOTO: THE UNITED STATES CAPITOL BUILDING IN WASHINGTON, D.C. WAS BREACHED BY THOUSANDS OF PROTESTERS DURING A "STOP THE STEAL" RALLY IN SUPPORT OF PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP DURING THE WORLDWIDE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC, 1/6/21 (MIHOKO OWADA/STAR MAX/IPX FILE) Five people died as a result of the Capitol riot on January 6, and more than 400 have been charged in connection with the attack, which sought to stop the certification of President Joe Biden’s election victory. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, half of Republicans believe the riot wasn’t an attempt by the far-right to keep Donald Trump in the White House, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released Monday. Instead, half of GOP voters said it was staged by left-wing activists or that it was “mostly peaceful.” ADVERTISEMENT The poll was conducted March 30 and 31 and surveyed 1,005 people. The overwhelming majority of those arrested have attributed their actions at least in part to believing the presidential election was stolen from Trump. But in the three months since the attack, there’s been a huge push from Republican elected officials and conservative media to rebrand the Capitol attack as having nothing to do with Trump and not really a big deal in the first place. In March, Trump told Fox News that there was “zero threat right from the start” at the Capitol and some alleged rioters were being “persecuted.” Sen. Ron Johnson, a Wisconsin Republican, said in a radio interview last month that he “never really felt threatened" during the riot at the Capitol, adding that he believed those at the Capitol were "people that love this country, that truly respect law enforcement, would never do anything to break a law." “Had the tables been turned and President Donald Trump won the election and those were thousands of Black Lives Matter and antifa protesters I would have been concerned,” he added. During a Senate hearing in February, Johnson pushed the conspiracy theory that “fake Trump supporters” were responsible for the attack. And he wasn’t the only one—several Fox News hosts and Johsnon’s Republican colleagues in Congress began boosting that lie on the very day of the insurrection, according to NPR. “Now they were likely not all Trump supporters and there are some reports that antifa sympathizers may have been sprinkled throughout the crowd,” Fox host Laura Ingraham said at the beginning of her January 6 broadcast. In the 24 hours following the attack, the lie that antifa carried out the attack was mentioned online more than 411,000 times, according to the MIT Technology Review. While Republicans are split on the nature of the attack, eight in 10 Democrats and six in ten independents predictably do not believe the conspiracy theories, according to Reuters. A majority of Republicans also believe the election was stolen from Trump and that he should run for a second non-consecutive term in 2024, the poll found. “Republicans have their own version of reality,” John Geer, a co-director of Vanderbilt University’s polling program, told Reuters. “It is a huge problem. Democracy requires accountability and accountability requires evidence." RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Tiger Teeth - 04-07-2021 Are we comparing to the attack on the Capitol by perfectly (sorta') sane people, and a man with mental problems that ran over a cop? You guys have me confused here. Is there still some doubt as to what really happened on Jan. 6th? RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - GMDino - 04-07-2021 (04-07-2021, 09:30 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Are we comparing to the attack on the Capitol by perfectly (sorta') sane people, and a man with mental problems that ran over a cop? You guys have me confused here. Is there still some doubt as to what really happened on Jan. 6th? Before we knew who the driver was there was a blast of "here we go again". I think we all know there was a difference here, at least so far based on what we have been told. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - GMDino - 04-10-2021 I know we don't need even more proof that Trump was a feckless "leader" and that he wanted the chaos of 1/6 but here it is anyway. https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-army-racial-injustice-riots-only-on-ap-480e95d9d075a0a946e837c3156cdcb9 RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - GMDino - 08-27-2021 The name of the officer who shot and killed someone on 1/6 has not only been made public but was blasted out by Tucker Carlson (among others I assume). So I found these two tweets, almost one year apart, funny in a "what is wrong with some people" kind of way. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - michaelsean - 08-27-2021 (04-05-2021, 03:36 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: https://www.vice.com/en/article/wx8wkb/republican-voters-are-eating-up-right-wing-lies-about-the-capitol-riot Not sure there were thousands that breached the Capitol. Unless he’s talking about the area and not the building. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-27-2021 I'm just mentally filing away people who were ok with shooting an unarmed person (which btw includes myself) for the next time they complain that law enforcement shot an unarmed person. Further explanation for the super dense among us, unarmed is not analogous with not dangerous. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Nately120 - 08-27-2021 (08-27-2021, 12:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm just mentally filing away people who were ok with shooting an unarmed person (which btw includes myself) for the next time they complain that law enforcement shot an unarmed person. When I see this shooting I cant help but think how people never picture themselves being the first one to go when charging the proverbial hill. They don't have the firepower to kill all of you, but it may require that sacrificial first wave. At any rate, the big difference here is that One person in a large violent mob was shot. Numbers matter. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-27-2021 (08-27-2021, 01:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: When I see this shooting I cant help but think how people never picture themselves being the first one to go when charging the proverbial hill. It's that way with any of these types of situations. It takes a group of highly disciplined people to execute any such type of activity, especially when you know being shot is a distinct possibility. That's why they tend to happen organically, and often within that accidentally. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Nately120 - 08-27-2021 (08-27-2021, 01:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's that way with any of these types of situations. It takes a group of highly disciplined people to execute any such type of activity, especially when you know being shot is a distinct possibility. That's why they tend to happen organically, and often within that accidentally. Right, people who say they will fight to the death when the government comes to take their guns, or people who say they'd run at a mass shooter...its unlikely. There is a reason the army has to train people to not freak out when they are in danger, and even then it's a roll of the dice. Everyone has a hero fantasy, no one has a "I'll get shot and the rest of the group will back off" fantasy. Act in haste, repent in leisure. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Nately120 - 08-27-2021 But more on topic, I would argue that a mob is "armed" with the potentially deadly advantage of numbers even if the individual is not armed with a traditional weapon. A mob almost becomes a singular, powerful and potentially deadly entity in itself. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Au165 - 08-27-2021 (08-27-2021, 12:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm just mentally filing away people who were ok with shooting an unarmed person (which btw includes myself) for the next time they complain that law enforcement shot an unarmed person. That's a bad faith argument, and I venture to believe you know that. A person being shot "unarmed" participating in an attack on the U.S. capitol is different then being shot while going about their normal every day life. Being shot while "unarmed" while trying to breach a secure area with people in the line of succession to be President is different than being shot while during a traffic stop. Unarmed is not analogous with not dangerous correct but that’s not what we are talking about here. Participating in a terroristic event that puts national security at risk kind of trumps a lot of rights and protections. If a person rushes the POTUS there is a relatively common understanding that person will most likely be shot without question because of national security implications. There is a fair argument to be made all those who were at the door could have, and potentially should have, been fired on because of the national security threat they posed at that moment. I'm disappointed the Babbitt stuff found it's way here to be honest because she was a terrorist and trying to compare stopping a terrorist during an attack on the country to other events of every day citizens is in bad taste. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-27-2021 (08-27-2021, 05:04 PM)Au165 Wrote: That's a bad faith argument, and I venture to believe you know that. A person being shot "unarmed" participating in an attack on the U.S. capitol is different then being shot while going about their normal every day life. Being shot while "unarmed" while trying to breach a secure area with people in the line of succession to be President is different than being shot while during a traffic stop. Not according to Dill, he has zero problem with comparing Americans to Nazis and the Taliban. But seriously, I get what you're saying, but you're also making a bad faith counter argument by stating unarmed people get shot by law enforcement "while going about their daily life", as if there's slews of examples of law enforcement just shooting someone out of the blue who was grocery shopping. The point I am making, and it's in no way a bad faith one, is that being "unarmed" is frequently used by anti law enforcement types to declare a shooting a bad one. As stated, being unarmed is not analogous to being not dangerous. So, with this agreement in hand I'll be very pleased to see a more nuanced view of law enforcement shootings from this point forward. Simply stating "they were unarmed" is not an argument in itself as to why a shooting was justified or not. Hell, there are still people trying to say the Ohio shooting of the girl in the midst of stabbing someone was a bad shooting. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-27-2021 (08-27-2021, 01:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: But more on topic, I would argue that a mob is "armed" with the potentially deadly advantage of numbers even if the individual is not armed with a traditional weapon. A mob almost becomes a singular, powerful and potentially deadly entity in itself. Careful, you're opening the door to law enforcement using deadly force during riots with this argument. RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Nately120 - 08-27-2021 (08-27-2021, 06:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Careful, you're opening the door to law enforcement using deadly force during riots with this argument. It's still a bit more specific than that. When a riot breaks into a secured and guarded area and expresses intention to harm/kill someone you are assigned to protect...well...that's bending over backwards to get some potentially lethal force sent your way, yes. We can never prove that group wasn't going to literally tear Nancy Pelosi and/or Mike Pence apart, but I wouldn't have ruled it out. But the variable you can't remove from this situation is that the mob had illegally entered a secured area they knew they weren't supposed to enter. Any mob that breaks into a secured area should be subject to forceful defense like in this case. These people went above and beyond a normal riot. As a private citizen it's comparing someone throwing a rock through my window versus breaking into my house and saying "I'm here to kill your wife." RE: Storming Of The Capitol Building - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-27-2021 (08-27-2021, 07:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's still a bit more specific than that. When a riot breaks into a secured and guarded area and expresses intention to harm/kill someone you are assigned to protect...well...that's bending over backwards to get some potentially lethal force sent your way, yes. I agree with your assessment. Let me throw a different, real world scenario, at you. In Portland they tried to set an occupied police station on fire. Would law enforcement be justified in shooting the people in that crowd at that point? https://nypost.com/2021/04/14/riot-declared-in-portland-after-police-station-set-on-fire/ |