(08-25-2015, 07:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If leadership is defined on how the team performs then we have different leaders every year.  Some seasons guys are good leaders then next year they are not.

Doesn't seem like a great way to define leadership to me.

It looks like Boomer was only a good leader for one season in his entire 14 year career.  Other than the '88 season Boomer was 68-89 as a starter.  And of the 11 other years where he started more than 5 games he only had 2 winning seasons.

(08-25-2015, 08:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I didn't vote. While I don't think Dalton is a leader, I don't think he's a "try-hard" or a fake, either. He's just doing what the coaches are telling him to do. It's not his fault that Marv always tries to develop leaders when leaders aren't developed just by telling them to be leaders.

This team has always had a leadership problem and it's goes way farther back than when Dalton got here. They've never been good at finding good leaders in the draft, and any natural leaders we may stumble upon are discouraged from displaying that fire on the field or in interviews.

Of course, when (if) this team starts winning playoff games, we might start to see some of these players show more leadership qualities. Rah-rah speeches can come off as corny when you've never won anything in January.

(08-25-2015, 09:32 PM)McC Wrote: If you're too stupid to know how leadership is defined, I won't waste my time trying to explain it to you.  You wanna hate on Boomer, hate on.  I couldn't care less.  Go argue with yourself, for all I care.

(08-25-2015, 09:41 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: 12 people voted no and my guess have never lead anyone in there entire lives, and probably know absolute dick about leading people.

(08-25-2015, 09:43 PM)GarbageDisposal Wrote: You mean to tell me you can make assessments of us based on the fact that we're not fooled by Andy's "Let's have some fun and play together!" summer camp counselor pep speeches?

"C'mon, man" - fall guy advocate Cris Carter

(08-25-2015, 09:41 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: 12 people voted no and my guess have never lead anyone in their entire lives, and probably know absolute dick about leading people.

(08-25-2015, 10:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This whole leadership BS is so subjective.

Dalton was supposedly the leader Palmer never was as soon as Dalton hit the field in 2011, now we are saying Dalton is no leader and some schlub with a bad arm and even worse tattoos is a better leader while the guy we decided was a way worse leader than Dalton is now considered a top-notch leader for a different team.

Leader this, leader that.  I think "leader" and "upside" are the two biggest bs terms fans throw around.  It means "I have no empirical evidence, so I'm going to start using terms that are ill-defined, if not outright pretend to make my point."

If someone wants to start a QB with a god awful statline and no resume you'd better believe he's going to mention the guy's LEADERSHIP and/or UPSIDE!!!!

(08-25-2015, 11:10 PM)J24 Wrote: Hes won 40 games in 4 years. That's 10 wins a year. You can't do that unless you have some leadership qualities at QB right? You can't win 10 games per a season and have a shity QB can you? Daltons better than what people think.

(08-25-2015, 11:10 PM)J24 Wrote: Hes won 40 games in 4 years. That's 10 wins a year. You can't do that unless you have some leadership qualities at QB right? You can't win 10 games per a season and have a shity QB can you? Daltons better than what people think.

(08-25-2015, 11:49 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The Bengals lost their top 2 receivers before Daltons first year too. It's not like he was drafted into a loaded team either.

(08-26-2015, 12:05 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Good ol' Dalton homers; bring up anything and watch regular season wins become the high-watermark by which anything is measured.

40 wins?  He's a leader.  We may as well appoint him a 4-star general in the US Army the way people follow him!  40 wins is leadership!  Leadership is 40 wins!  If Dalton goes 8-8 this year it means he simply has 20% less leadership!

(08-26-2015, 12:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not saying that Dalton is a great leader, but this claim in support of Dalton makes just as much sense as any claim against him being a good leader.

Then whole argument is silly because nonoe of us are on the team or have any way of telling who are good leaders and who are not (other than what other coaches and players have said about Whit and Peko)