10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +--- Thread: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade (/Thread-10-people-injured-at-KC-Super-Bowl-Parade) |
RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-17-2024 (02-17-2024, 11:47 AM)GMDino Wrote: Since I'm not an expert in everything legally involved in every state and jurisdiction I guess my question is: Are there specific circumstances for charges like "murder" vs "involuntary homicide" vs some other charge where the suspects actions resulted in a death? I'm actually going to answer your questions instead of being baited by you. In so doing, note I'm not an expert in Missouri state law, but I doubt very much it differs radically from CA law in this regard. Penal code violations tend to have the same standards when you're talking about "red meat" felonies like robbery, murder and assault. If you're speaking to this specific incident, it would still be first degree murder. First degree murder requires pre-planning or a "depraved heart". Depraved heart being defined as engaging in a behavior so wantonly dangerous as to be likely to cause death. Shooting into a crowd of people, even if you have a specific target, will result in first degree murder charges due to the act having such an obviously lethal likely outcome. Where it would get interesting, from a legal standpoint, is if the murdered victim was struck by return fire from the initial intended victim. I'd still be very comfortable charging first degree murder, especially if this shooting, as I think is almost a dead certainty, is gang related. Quote:If you and I have a shootout over the last donut and accidentally shoot Dill who is walking by the building is that the same as aiming at Dill and killing him? It depends on the circumstances. If you fired one shot at "person X" (I wouldn't want to be accused of threatening to kill another board member here), missed and it went through a wall and struck the victim it probably would not be charged as first degree murder. You had no intent to hit the victim and didn't know the victim was there. Contrast that with you both being on a busy street when the argument started and you fire multiple rounds at "person X" who is standing directly in front of a crowd of people. You're actions have such obviously lethal consequences for anyone standing behind person X that you would almost certainly be charged with first degree murder. I'll add that a DA could still make such an argument in the first scenario, but it's far less likely. If they did it would likely be a tactic to get an easier plea deal out of you. Quote:And do we know the age of the suspects? I've been busy and we're leaving for the weekend so I didn't read any links yet this morning. Can we charge 15 year olds as adults in KC? 13? Again, there may be a difference between Missouri and California law here, but I doubt it, and if there is it wouldn't be substantial. In CA anyone 14 years or older (under fourteen being legally defined as a child) can be charged as an adult, or that process started, if they commit a crime listed under 707(b) WIC (welfare and institutions code). These crimes are generally what you would typically think they would be. Murder, robbery, felony assault, carjacking, rape, arson, kidnapping. Here is a link with a list, sans the PC numbers for most of the offenses listed. https://www.keglawyers.com/juvenile-strike-crimes-wic-707b In CA you now have to go through a trial process in the juvenile system called a, "Transfer to Court of Criminal Jurisdiction" hearing. At the end of that process the judge decides if the minor remains in delinquency court or is transferred to adult. The DA used to be able to direct file on this type of case, skipping the delinquency court entirely, but that has been changed. Quote:Those are serious questions that I do not know the answers to. An interesting statement, considering the Public Defender that used to haunt this sub-forum had to be corrected on basic criminal law by someone you'd likely slap that label on. Alas, we will struggle ever forward. Quote:That was the joke because I DO know that won't happen. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-17-2024 (02-17-2024, 10:14 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ah yeah good point. Meanwhile I live in an area so red if someone shot me the DA would probably let them off with the "he looked like he could have been Mexican or an Arab" defense. Having no real first hand experience with them, I do wonder if those type of Mississippi Burning jurisdictions still exist. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - GMDino - 02-18-2024 (02-17-2024, 10:14 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ah yeah good point. Meanwhile I live in an area so red if someone shot me the DA would probably let them off with the "he looked like he could have been Mexican or an Arab" defense. They said he was an illegal immigrant too. <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-18-2024 (02-18-2024, 10:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: They said he was an illegal immigrant too. It's ok, they'll run a retraction like they did with Sandman. I seem to recall you found that a sufficient resolution. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - GMDino - 02-19-2024 Starting to see some info on how these two suspects might be charged as adults from people with actual knowledge of how it works there. https://abc17news.com/news/missouri/2024/02/18/what-it-could-take-for-the-two-juveniles-charged-in-kansas-city-parade-shooting-to-be-charged-as-adults/ Quote:What it could take for the two juveniles charged in Kansas City parade shooting to be charged as adults RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - GMDino - 02-19-2024 Just as some background info, KC has also had a problem with gun violence. https://www.komu.com/news/things-to-know-about-the-shooting-at-the-kansas-city-chiefs-super-bowl-celebration/article_a37b174e-e44a-55bc-ad98-3ce366a13f17.html Quote:Things to know about the shooting at the Kansas City Chiefs' Super Bowl celebration RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Nately120 - 02-19-2024 (02-18-2024, 10:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: They said he was an illegal immigrant too. I heard he is a trans illegal immigrant who was caught with a briefcase of 10 million fake votes for Biden and proof Obama was born in Zimbabwe and the stolen perfect healthcare plan Trump was going to release in 2 weeks and the script for the most recent super bowl and the contract Taylor swift signed with satan himself. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - GMDino - 02-19-2024 (02-19-2024, 11:00 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I heard he is a trans illegal immigrant who was caught with a briefcase of 10 million fake votes for Biden and proof Obama was born in Zimbabwe and the stolen perfect healthcare plan Trump was going to release in 2 weeks and the script for the most recent super bowl and the contract Taylor swift signed with satan himself. You had me until the healthcare plan. He keeps that in his coat pocket at all times...just waiting for the right time to spring it on Sleepy Joe. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-19-2024 (02-19-2024, 10:24 AM)GMDino Wrote: Starting to see some info on how these two suspects might be charged as adults from people with actual knowledge of how it works there. Then proceeds to post an article saying the exact same things, with far less detail than I provided . I'll give you this, you've got smarmy down pat. It'll be really interesting watching everything I said about this play out in the exact way I said they would and you doing everything you can to not acknowledge it. Please never change. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Goalpost - 02-20-2024 https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39564069/two-adults-charged-murder-chiefs-parade-shooting RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - GMDino - 02-20-2024 (02-20-2024, 06:33 PM)Goalpost Wrote: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39564069/two-adults-charged-murder-chiefs-parade-shooting Well now we know why the two minors were not charged with murder...they didn't kill anyone. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-20-2024 (02-20-2024, 06:33 PM)Goalpost Wrote: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39564069/two-adults-charged-murder-chiefs-parade-shooting Like I said, it would be interesting to see how they would charge the killer if the one who fired the fatal shot was reacting to being shot at. I guess second degree murder it is. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-20-2024 https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/20/us/two-men-charged-with-murder-in-kansas-city-parade-shooting/index.html The murder weapon was stolen. If only we had a law against that. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - GMDino - 02-20-2024 (02-20-2024, 08:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/20/us/two-men-charged-with-murder-in-kansas-city-parade-shooting/index.html No it wasn't. Quote:A Glock 9mm handgun found on the ground near Mays contained six rounds in a 15-round capacity magazine, according to the documents. The firearm had been stolen in Kansas City, Missouri, the documents state. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-20-2024 (02-20-2024, 09:23 PM)GMDino Wrote: No it wasn't. My bad, the guy who started the gunfight had a stolen weapon. We don't know about the Taurus. I'm sure it was legally purchased and owned by the perp. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - GMDino - 02-20-2024 (02-20-2024, 09:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Weird way to say you were wrong, and/or didn't read the article completely. There was a gun that had been reported stolen found next to the suspect that allegedly drew first. We do not know about the Taurus as it was not stated in the article that it too was reported stolen, only that he admitted to using that gun and it was shown to be the gun that fired the fatal shot. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-20-2024 (02-20-2024, 10:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: Weird way to say you were wrong. You mean actually saying exactly that? You should try it sometime. Quote:There was a gun that had been reported stolen found next to the suspect that allegedly drew first. Yes, the Glock, as I said in the post you just quoted. Quote:We do not know about the Taurus as it was not stated in the article that it too was reported stolen, only that he admitted to using that gun and it was shown to be the gun that fired the fatal shot. Yes, as I said in the post you just quoted. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - GMDino - 02-21-2024 (02-20-2024, 11:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You mean actually saying exactly that? You should try it sometime. No, you made a series of assumptions saying: 1) The person who drew first had the stolen weapon. That is not in the article. 2) That the person the stolen weapon was next to drew first. That is not in the article. 3) Seeming to imply that the gun that fired the fatal shot was probably stolen also. (At least it read that way: "I'm sure...") Also not in the article. If we want the media to be "truthful" and get the facts right then we need to also be right when we cite them as sources versus when we post our own opinions without the stories/facts to back them up yet. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-21-2024 (02-21-2024, 12:11 AM)GMDino Wrote: No, you made a series of assumptions saying: No, I made a mistake. A mistake is not an assumption. For example, you just made a mistake when you said I made an assumption. You did not make an assumption when you said I made an assumption. Quote:1) The person who drew first had the stolen weapon. That is not in the article. Actually, it is. Mays was found wounded and taken to a hospital for treatment. In a hospital interview two days after the shooting, Mays told detectives he started shooting because the others said “I’m going to get you,” the statement says. “Stupid, man. Just pulled a gun out and started shooting,” Mays allegedly said, according to the probable cause statement. “I shouldn’t have done that. Just being stupid.” A Glock 9mm handgun found on the ground near Mays contained six rounds in a 15-round capacity magazine, according to the documents. The firearm had been stolen in Kansas City, Missouri, the documents state. Quote:2) That the person the stolen weapon was next to drew first. That is not in the article. Actually, it is. Mays was found wounded and taken to a hospital for treatment. In a hospital interview two days after the shooting, Mays told detectives he started shooting because the others said “I’m going to get you,” the statement says. “Stupid, man. Just pulled a gun out and started shooting,” Mays allegedly said, according to the probable cause statement. “I shouldn’t have done that. Just being stupid.” A Glock 9mm handgun found on the ground near Mays contained six rounds in a 15-round capacity magazine, according to the documents. The firearm had been stolen in Kansas City, Missouri, the documents state. Quote:3) Seeming to imply that the gun that fired the fatal shot was probably stolen also. (At least it read that way: "I'm sure...") Also not in the article. Nope, that was where I made the mistake, not the assumption. The Taurus, which was not identified as stolen, fired the fatal shot. The Taurus fired by Miller. Miller, who had a gunshot wound, was tackled and disarmed by a witness who saw him carrying a handgun, according to the statement. In a hospital interview two days after the shooting, he said he was armed with a Taurus G3 9mm handgun and said he returned fire after he saw someone shooting at him, according to the statement. A .38-caliber class bullet was recovered during an autopsy of Lopez-Galvan, and a ballistic comparison of the bullet determined it was fired from the Taurus weapon, according to the statement. Quote:If we want the media to be "truthful" and get the facts right then we need to also be right when we cite them as sources versus when we post our own opinions without the stories/facts to back them up yet. Oh my, this didn't age well for you. You actually had me making a mistake. Then in your rush to get me online you made numerous mistakes yourself. Mistakes, not assumptions. Thank you for not only making my error now seem trivial, but giving me a good laugh in the process. Goodnight, sweet prince. RE: 10 people injured at KC Super Bowl Parade - GMDino - 02-21-2024 (02-21-2024, 01:22 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, I made a mistake. A mistake is not an assumption. For example, you just made a mistake when you said I made an assumption. You did not make an assumption when you said I made an assumption. Oddly the article still does not say Mays was the first shooter. Just what his told the police that he was stupid for stating shooting. Now that kind of assumption is easy to make based on what we know so far but it is still only an assumption as the article does not say he was the first shooter. That's why I didn't say you were wrong to make that assumption, just that it was an assumption and not what the article said/ I'm going with what the article literally says. If the next one says Mays shot first then that is what I will go with too. The article says it continues to look for others involved. Until that is over we do not know who started it. Maybe they were the only shooters. In that case your assumption is correct. As to your "mistake", yes you were wrong about the gun that fired the fatal shot being the one reported as tole, but as I said your line "I'm sure..." read as sarcastic in that you decided this was a gang bang spray shooting the day of so why would you really be "sure" the gun was legally obtained. That is what I said was an assumption. I made no assumptions. I repeated what was in the article. It's not a gotcha. It's not personal. It's trying to stick with facts as they are reported. Something we have all said should be done more, especially around here. |