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The issues that face the Nation - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: The issues that face the Nation (/Thread-The-issues-that-face-the-Nation) |
RE: The issues that face the Nation - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 10-28-2016 (10-28-2016, 12:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: I agree with going after the people using the illegal workers. Not much. Unlike Trump I am aware that most immigrants are not criminals in that sense. They just want to earn money to send home. Illegal immigrants are generally hard working and law abiding people. That doesn't change my point at all though. (10-28-2016, 12:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It will cost a lot of money to step up prosecution. Maybe just as much as stepping up deportation. They both require the same amount of work i.e. locating and identifying illegal workers. How do you prove that a lawn service is paying cash to workers when there is no paper trail? To some extent, which would also be offset by the fines collected against employers for violating the law. But in reality cost of enforcement is a non-issue. Your point assumes that the people put in charge of enforcement aren't already being paid by their job to enforce the law in other areas or ways. In reality it wouldn't cost more as the people involved are already making a pay check. As to your last sentence, IRS auditors live for that shit. (10-28-2016, 12:48 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: There is data to support that more Mexicans are leaving the US than entering (http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/). Offsetting this is the increase of Indian and Chinese immigration, far outpacing recent years of Mexican immigration. Thank you for taking the time to post hard data. I'm at work and don't really have the time. (10-28-2016, 02:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The healthcare is money lost in the private sector. Money spent at the municipal level is generated primarily from property taxes and sales taxes, which they can't avoid. They may not pay the property taxes directly, but they pay them indirectly through their landlords. Money to pay for roads is picked up from vehicle registrations, which they often do pay, just again it is often indirectly, and through gasoline taxes which are unavoidable. Good points until you get to vehicle registration. Those are often forged or stolen from other vehicles. There's a reason every Californian scores the crap out of their registration sticker, so it can't be peeled off and reused. Gasoline tax is the same as sales tax, which has already been conceded. Quote:I will say something about an earlier post, though. The whole illegal immigrants having an ITIN is bull shit. More often than not they are using another person's SSN/ITIN to obtain employment and so taxes are being paid in that person's name. Very true, which often causes immense problems for the person whose SSN is being used. Their credit score is often decimated which can cause irreparable damage to a person's life. Using someone else's SSN is a significant crime and a huge detriment to the victim. RE: The issues that face the Nation - GMDino - 10-28-2016 (10-28-2016, 12:48 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: There is data to support that more Mexicans are leaving the US than entering (http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/). Offsetting this is the increase of Indian and Chinese immigration, far outpacing recent years of Mexican immigration. (10-28-2016, 03:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not much. Unlike Trump I am aware that most immigrants are not criminals in that sense. They just want to earn money to send home. Illegal immigrants are generally hard working and law abiding people. That doesn't change my point at all though. I was just looking at it from the possible angle of if they CAN'T get home easily or thinking of situations where people get desperate if they have nothing to go back to. I agree that most would simply leave, as many already have. RE: The issues that face the Nation - Belsnickel - 10-28-2016 (10-28-2016, 03:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Good points until you get to vehicle registration. Those are often forged or stolen from other vehicles. There's a reason every Californian scores the crap out of their registration sticker, so it can't be peeled off and reused. Gasoline tax is the same as sales tax, which has already been conceded. In my location they typically have registered vehicles. As with many of these issues, regional variations do exist. RE: The issues that face the Nation - TheLeonardLeap - 10-28-2016 (10-28-2016, 02:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The healthcare is money lost in the private sector. Money spent at the municipal level is generated primarily from property taxes and sales taxes, which they can't avoid. They may not pay the property taxes directly, but they pay them indirectly through their landlords. Money to pay for roads is picked up from vehicle registrations, which they often do pay, just again it is often indirectly, and through gasoline taxes which are unavoidable. Money lost in the private sector. How do you think they recoup those losses? The same way they got to pay for the ACA. Raise our fees and prices. It might not be called a tax, but it might as well be. RE: The issues that face the Nation - bfine32 - 10-28-2016 (10-28-2016, 03:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not much. Unlike Trump I am aware that most immigrants are not criminals in that sense. They just want to earn money to send home. Illegal immigrants are generally hard working and law abiding people. I agree with this point and have most likely seen it first hand. That does not change the inconvenient truth that both they and their employers are participating in illegal activity. The biggest issue I have with illegal immigration and "looking the other way" is the message it sends to those trying to enter the country by legal means. RE: The issues that face the Nation - Belsnickel - 10-28-2016 (10-28-2016, 05:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Money lost in the private sector. How do you think they recoup those losses? The same way they got to pay for the ACA. Raise our fees and prices. It might not be called a tax, but it might as well be. That's what happens when we have laws preventing hospitals from turning people away but we don't provide the regulation or fiscal support to make it a viable financial model. RE: The issues that face the Nation - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 10-28-2016 (10-28-2016, 05:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree with this point and have most likely seen it first hand. That does not change the inconvenient truth that both they and their employers are participating in illegal activity. I agree, which is why I used the term, "criminals in that sense", meaning street level crime. RE: The issues that face the Nation - fredtoast - 10-30-2016 (10-28-2016, 03:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your point assumes that the people put in charge of enforcement aren't already being paid by their job to enforce the law in other areas or ways. In reality it wouldn't cost more as the people involved are already making a pay check. No. My point assumes that a lot more work will require a lot more manpower. If the population of a city quadruples they have to add more investigators and prosecutors even though there are already some working and making a pay check. So if we suddenly ask prosecutors and investigators to find evdence regarding the employment of several million illegal immigrants the increase in workload is going to require more manpower. RE: The issues that face the Nation - fredtoast - 10-30-2016 (10-28-2016, 03:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: To some extent, which would also be offset by the fines collected against employers for violating the law. But many employers of illegal immigrants don't have much money to pay fines. They are small farmers, construction contractors, lawnservices, and restaurants. You can levy millions in fines, but you can't collect if they don't have it. RE: The issues that face the Nation - fredtoast - 10-30-2016 (10-28-2016, 02:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except you forgot to mention that then you're losing the money they spend on things like educating their children, giving them healthcare, paying the salaries of the police/EMT/firefighters/etc who work their neighborhoods, repairing the roads they drive on, etc, etc. Still not quite correct. Things like military spending and most areas of government regulation are going to be the same no matter what the populations. You have a point that some services costs are based oin population, but not all of them RE: The issues that face the Nation - fredtoast - 10-30-2016 (10-28-2016, 12:48 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: This caused me to wonder about the total cost of illegal immigration, which according to this: http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers is $113 billion total, This is a perfct example of what I said earlier about it being hard to find an unbiased study on the costs of immigration and deportation. FAIR is an extremely biased source and there has been a lot of criticism of the methodolgy used in this report https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/statistical-hot-air-fair%E2%80%99s-usa-report-lacks-credibility
But it works both ways. People who claim it will costs too much to deport all the illegal immigrants will often inflate those numbers also. |