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+--- Thread: WR trio (/Thread-WR-trio)
RE: WR trio - Hammerstripes - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 11:46 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Exactly. It amazes me that some on this board think Penei Sewell is the only worthy lineman in the draft. Just silly.
This is the last time I'll comment on Sewell because it's over and done with.
The problem for people like me isn't that they passed on Sewell. it's because they did nothing to upgrade the O-line this offseason. People want to say that Reiff is a major upgrade, but he isn't if he plays like he did last year. Him and Hart carried similar grades with PFF (not that I'm a true believer in that system.)
Either way, the problem is that we spent the vast majority of our money in free agency on replacements for guys that left and we didn't pro-actively go out and get guys that would protect the single most valuable asset that the team has.
This team has shown me ZERO ability to identify O-line talent outside of the top rated guy (Jonah). When we get down to the 2nd tier we consistently miss (Price, Ced, Fisher). So here we are again trusting our front office to identify a player that they have not shown any ability to draft in quite some time.
That's scary.
RE: WR trio - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 03:37 PM)Yogo Wrote: Wait wut!?! I must have missed this last year?
Late in the year Perine was running over teams. He also shown he is a good pass blocker which I believe is a big reason we let
Gio go. Perine is a great backup RB for us and plays ST's. Also has good hands and can take a lot of carries cause he is a tough
sumbitch.
Really happy we brought him back, underrated move this Offseason IMO
RE: WR trio - Sled21 - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 03:37 PM)Yogo Wrote: Wait wut!?! I must have missed this last year?
Yes, you must have. After Mixon got hurt, Perine averaged 4.8 ypc. He's a brutal downhill runner.
RE: WR trio - Yogo - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 03:50 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yes, you must have. After Mixon got hurt, Perine averaged 4.8 ypc. He's a brutal downhill runner.
I think I stopped watching earlier than I thought when Burrow went down. This would be good to explain letting go of Gio, but means it came during the meaningless part of the season that he put up those numbers. But still, Mixon running into a wall for 0 yds gets tiresome. Mixon could be all world and carry this team a lot if he had an average line.
RE: WR trio - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:39 PM)Yogo Wrote: I think I stopped watching earlier than I thought when Burrow went down. This would be good to explain letting go of Gio, but means it came during the meaningless part of the season that he put up those numbers. But still, Mixon running into a wall for 0 yds gets tiresome. Mixon could be all world and carry this team a lot if he had an average line.
Yep, get this Line blocking for him and we could really see what he has, I don't think he has even touched on it yet.
Use Mixon more in the passing game too, this has been something I have been harping on for years. Great pass catcher.
He can play WR for heck sake, did so at Oklahoma.
RE: WR trio - IndyTiger - 04-30-2021
(04-29-2021, 10:22 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Rush 4 get pressure.
Drop 7 and double Chase.
leaves 5 to take on Boyd, Higgins and Sample who according according to team Chase pre-draft couldn't get separation.
I love how everyone was shitting on Boyd and Higgins and now that we have Chase, magically this is a top WR group??? Makes no ***** sense.
You realize that putting 4 in the box leaves a 5/6 on 4 blocking advantage for the running game. You're not going be able to simply rush 4 guys and put everyone else in coverage and get away with it in this league. Those receivers are going to get single coverage. You may be able to double 1 guy consistently and disguise coverages, but Joe Burrow will find the open guy and get him the ball quickly. As the season goes on, I expect the offensive line to improve, as well. With those weapons, it doesn't have to be great, but good. Hopefully, Joe will do a better job of getting rid of it if the protection breaks down.
Having said that, the O-line needs help, but it is not as dire as everyone says it is. Young guys improve, new guys come in, and chemistry gets better over time. The O-line did improve as the season went on, last year. The Bengals need to make the most of their talent on the O-line. One more guy can make all the difference. They may need to draft 3 more linemen to find that one guy. Staying healthy in the trenches is also going to be important.
This group of receivers can do it all - go deep, short, catch it in traffic, win the jump balls, more often than not. Joe Burrow excels at putting the ball in a spot where his guy is going to come down with it. Having those big, physical receivers that don't need much space to make a catch will make it easier for him to do just that. I think the Bengals offense is going to be much better than it was last year, and they were better than people give them credit for last year. When Joe Burrow was healthy, they scored over 30 points in over half of their games. I look forward to seeing what they can do.
RE: WR trio - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:31 PM)IndyTiger Wrote: You realize that putting 4 in the box leaves a 5/6 on 4 blocking advantage for the running game. You're not going be able to simply rush 4 guys and put everyone else in coverage and get away with it in this league. Those receivers are going to get single coverage. You may be able to double 1 guy consistently and disguise coverages, but Joe Burrow will find the open guy and get him the ball quickly. As the season goes on, I expect the offensive line to improve, as well. With those weapons, it doesn't have to be great, but good. Hopefully, Joe will do a better job of getting rid of it if the protection breaks down.
Having said that, the O-line needs help, but it is not as dire as everyone says it is. Young guys improve, new guys come in, and chemistry gets better over time. The O-line did improve as the season went on, last year. The Bengals need to make the most of their talent on the O-line. One more guy can make all the difference. They may need to draft 3 more linemen to find that one guy. Staying healthy in the trenches is also going to be important.
This group of receivers can do it all - go deep, short, catch it in traffic, win the jump balls, more often than not. Joe Burrow excels at putting the ball in a spot where his guy is going to come down with it. Having those big, physical receivers that don't need much space to make a catch will make it easier for him to do just that. I think the Bengals offense is going to be much better than it was last year, and they were better than people give them credit for last year. When Joe Burrow was healthy, they scored over 30 points in over half of their games. I look forward to seeing what they can do.
Nice post and welcome to the board!
We have the picks early in every round in a deep OL class to find that one guy too.
We also needed one more piece in the Receiving room exactly like Chase and we got him. Great start IMO.
RE: WR trio - Joelist - 04-30-2021
Yes the line improved later in the season. In fact once it had a stable lineup (Johnson, XSF, Hopkins, Spain, Hart) that got lots of reps together it was actually effective. We have the stats on this in multiple threads - pressures and hits nosedived and only 2 sacks in the last 4 games. Well, Jonah is back and he is better than Johnson and Reiff is a pretty large upgrade over Hart. The key right now is ensuring players like MJ and Redmond never see the field as a Bengal again. This is why I want to at minimum double dip OL.
With Chase, you can expect that 3 WR is going to be the base set, with possibly Perine and Mixon in the backfield together with Burrow. I would assume here that if teams try dropping 7 or 6 we could play power football and have Perine either be the bulldozer or lead for Mixon. I would expect that this is going to result in single coverage on either Higgins or Chase or Boyd which is great for us.
RE: WR trio - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:51 PM)Joelist Wrote: Yes the line improved later in the season. In fact once it had a stable lineup (Johnson, XSF, Hopkins, Spain, Hart) that got lots of reps together it was actually effective. We have the stats on this in multiple threads - pressures and hits nosedived and only 2 sacks in the last 4 games. Well, Jonah is back and he is better than Johnson and Reiff is a pretty large upgrade over Hart. The key right now is ensuring players like MJ and Redmond never see the field as a Bengal again. This is why I want to at minimum double dip OL.
With Chase, you can expect that 3 WR is going to be the base set, with possibly Perine and Mixon in the backfield together with Burrow. I would assume here that if teams try dropping 7 or 6 we could play power football and have Perine either be the bulldozer or lead for Mixon. I would expect that this is going to result in single coverage on either Higgins or Chase or Boyd which is great for us.
Hell yeah, been calling for putting 2 RB's on the field for years as long as they are pass catchers. Makes you much less
predictable. Chemistry and cohesion are the biggest things with OL play and this cannot be stated enough. Double dip on
the OL to keep MJ off the field and we are sitting pretty nice with those weapons.
Tells me a lot that there was no talk of Pitts even if he got past the Falcons from us.
Don't understand not using a TE much in the NFL now a days but if we aren't than do what you say here and use the RB's.
RE: WR trio - IndyTiger - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post and welcome to the board!
We have the picks early in every round in a deep OL class to find that one guy too.
We also needed one more piece in the Receiving room exactly like Chase and we got him. Great start IMO.
Thank you. Agreed. I think they picked Chase because they knew that their are a lot of good O-linemen still out there.
If the Bengals had one of the top O-lines in the league, then it would be a juggernaut offense. They have a couple of years to work on that, ,but they couldn't get both this year. Incremental improvements. I always have thought that if you have a chance to get an impact player in the top 10, do it. There are plenty of very good lineman available in the latter half of the 1st round (where I expect the Bengals to be picking in 2023, if not 2022), as well as the 2nd and 3rd round. I expect Mixon and Perine to have good years - especially if teams rush 3 or 4 consistently. Joe Mixon may be the biggest beneficiary of the draft, so far.
Rome wasn't built in a day. They had to choose whether to draft an O-lineman or a receiver, and I think they made a good choice. Chase will make the offensive line better, if that makes any sense. Skill players are set. Time to go get some hogs...
RE: WR trio - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 06:06 PM)IndyTiger Wrote: Thank you. Agreed. I think they picked Chase because they knew that their are a lot of good O-linemen still out there.
If the Bengals had one of the top O-lines in the league, then it would be a juggernaut offense. They have a couple of years to work on that, ,but they couldn't get both this year. Incremental improvements. I always have thought that if you have a chance to get an impact player in the top 10, do it. There are plenty of very good lineman available in the latter half of the 1st round (where I expect the Bengals to be picking in 2023, if not 2022), as well as the 2nd and 3rd round. I expect Mixon and Perine to have good years - especially if teams rush 3 or 4 consistently. Joe Mixon may be the biggest beneficiary of the draft, so far.
Rome wasn't built in a day. They had to choose whether to draft an O-lineman or a receiver, and I think they made a good choice. Chase will make the offensive line better, if that makes any sense. Skill players are set. Time to go get some hogs...
You are welcome.
I mean, if the Draft wasn't deep with OL I would agree with the guys hating the Chase pick. But it is very deep.
Adding an impact player is what you want to do when you pick this early as you said. Chase is this in every aspect with
chemistry with Burrow while playing in the SEC and dominating. There are at least 8-10 OL that I would love to get in
the 2nd and 3rd rounds and even extending into the 4th. Crazy deep.
RE: WR trio - Essex Johnson - 05-01-2021
(04-30-2021, 12:17 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I love Tyler Boyd, but this simply isn't true.
Well on draft night on espn referenced stats wise over last two years he was leader in that position so it is your word against ESPN I guess
RE: WR trio - pally - 05-06-2021
What's understood doesn't need to be explained https://t.co/XA4YGp7rSQ
— Tyler Boyd (@boutdat_23) May 6, 2021
RE: WR trio - Murdock2420 - 05-06-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:31 PM)IndyTiger Wrote: You realize that putting 4 in the box leaves a 5/6 on 4 blocking advantage for the running game. You're not going be able to simply rush 4 guys and put everyone else in coverage and get away with it in this league. Those receivers are going to get single coverage. You may be able to double 1 guy consistently and disguise coverages, but Joe Burrow will find the open guy and get him the ball quickly. As the season goes on, I expect the offensive line to improve, as well. With those weapons, it doesn't have to be great, but good. Hopefully, Joe will do a better job of getting rid of it if the protection breaks down.
Having said that, the O-line needs help, but it is not as dire as everyone says it is. Young guys improve, new guys come in, and chemistry gets better over time. The O-line did improve as the season went on, last year. The Bengals need to make the most of their talent on the O-line. One more guy can make all the difference. They may need to draft 3 more linemen to find that one guy. Staying healthy in the trenches is also going to be important.
This group of receivers can do it all - go deep, short, catch it in traffic, win the jump balls, more often than not. Joe Burrow excels at putting the ball in a spot where his guy is going to come down with it. Having those big, physical receivers that don't need much space to make a catch will make it easier for him to do just that. I think the Bengals offense is going to be much better than it was last year, and they were better than people give them credit for last year. When Joe Burrow was healthy, they scored over 30 points in over half of their games. I look forward to seeing what they can do.
To the running game comment.
How often did the Bengals run last season prior to Burrow going down versus passing.
How often did they line up empty set with a RB either motioning out or not being there?
The Bengals offense was predictable due to play calling and formation. If you want to run empty sets you can't do it with an average to below average line.
Pre draft all I heard on here was Boyd and Higgins can't get separation. So they draft Chase to sell jerseys and excite half the fanbase. Now I'm to believe that suddenly Boyd and Higgins will get separation?
You said this group of receivers can do it all? Funny, before the draft this WR Corp was terrible. Couldn't go deep, couldn't get separation but now all the sudden one guy and all that is fixed? Either this group was fine and didn't need to burn a premium pick or people are overselling the groups talent.
RE: WR trio - yang - 05-06-2021
(04-30-2021, 01:54 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: To answer all of this in one simply post.
Go look at the shit show that happened on this board for the past few weeks. See all the posts about how our WRs couldn't get separation and how the people who wanted Chase were saying the WR group was worse off then the OL group.
I'm not going to dive through 40 plus threads and hundreds of posts to quote each one, but **** I started a thread about how good Higgins could be, because I actually thought he could be a number 1 and Chase wasn't needed. And in that thread, he was labeled by some as decent or good or a possession guy.
Again... now we draft one guy and suddenly all that was just talk... which really was all my point was. The Pro-Chase movement was talking out their ass about how bad the WR group was because they wanted to push for their dude. All I heard was that the top corner was shadowing Green still and he was getting doubled still and in that scenario DIRECT QUOTES FROM THE DEBATE "Our WRS can't get any separation." "Burrow had to throw the most contested passes." So... Green is out, Chase is in... so he gets doubled, and that means the other two will have the exact same scenario as last season.
So...
Either it is total bullshit that the Bengals have a top WR group...
or
It was total bullshit how bad the WR group was prior to getting Chase.
Pick one, but it must be one because no one drafted player magically fixes anything. Even Sewell wouldn't have fixed the line on his own, needed more then one guy there.
Most importantly. At this point, I just don't even care. I legit feel like Bill Burr when he was talking about losing his religion and how he just let it go at one point when he wasn't getting anything out of it anymore. I'm really at that exact same point right now, I look at how long I've wasted money and time on Mike Brown's product and realize at this point he doesn't care about winning. Which makes me really ask, why should I care and invest in this team? The Chase pick does two things, makes Burrow happy so he re-ups when they want him too and most importantly, creates a mob of people storming to the Pro Shop with money going "I needz da Chase jersey." This pick wasn't about long term winning, this pick was about short term getting fans in the seats and selling jerseys.
Look at Twitter, look at this board, the frenzy of excitement for a 4 win team has Mike Brown seeing dollar signs and a 6 or 7 win season that he can sell as "progress".
I know everyone pretty much is used to your trolling shtick, but whatever...
Either it is total bullshit that the Bengals have a top WR group...
or
It was total bullshit how bad the WR group was prior to getting Chase.
Pick one, but it must be one because no one drafted player magically fixes anything. Even Sewell wouldn't have fixed the line on his own, needed more then one guy there.
This is just straw manning everyone's take.
Either you are a Browns fan OR a Steelers fan!
See what I did there?
People love Boyd and Tee, but alone they are not at "top" WR group and neither is a clear #1 X receiver we desparately need. Separation issues came because of lack of time, double and types of coverage. It's been posted numerous times and stated everywhere how Chase will improve their performance.
Everyone understand this but you, and even you likely do but just post nonsense to troll or other attention issues.
And as for other teams "rushing 4 and dropping 7 every down" we would welcome that as Mixon will rush for 2000 yards and assure us the playoffs. It's just another horrific stab at logic.
Why you oppose adding a clear #1 in Chase is beyond most people on the board. It's nonsensical.
RE: WR trio - bengals67 - 05-06-2021
(04-29-2021, 10:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Bengals just obtained one of, if not the best, receiving trios in the league. Good luck trying to cover Chase, Higgins and Boyd with Burrow throwing the ball.
Only going to happen if the Bengals can run the ball in crunch time situations against teams like the Ravens. Steelers, Browns, Pats, etc.
If we have a legitimate running game with Mixon not getting gang tackled behind the line of scrimmage, then yes, Chase. Higgins and Boyd will be a top trio.
I am very skeptical this is going to happen because I remain skeptical about our o line - but boy do I hope it happens.
RE: WR trio - Murdock2420 - 05-06-2021
(05-06-2021, 03:51 PM)yang Wrote: Why you oppose adding a clear #1 in Chase is beyond most people on the board. It's nonsensical.
Because I'm tired of seeing the team held back year after year by subpar OL play. They finally get a chance to go all in and fix it, get Sewell, get Carman, go after it hard and they instead went after it half assed.
And I'm sick of the crap from the people pre-draft who wanted to say the WR group was worse off then the OL group but now... those same people are all... We got a top 5 WR group. We added 1 guy, that doesn't take you from below average to top 5. Doesn't work that way. And that level of hypocritical bullshit pisses me off and I'm going to call it out.
It's no different then looking at LeonardLeap's sig. Completely accurate. 2020 = "Burrow is the answer, he elevates WRs and the line around him." To.. 2021 = "Burrow can't do it without elite WR's" So he went from Andrew Luck to Andy Dalton in one off-season.
Again, that type of hypocritical BS I'm going to call out. You call it trolling because you don't like the reality. And the reality is, this team isn't going for a Championship.
It gets old. I lived through the 90's and watched Mike Brown destroy this team. It's like history is repeating itself here and the team just got a new version of Peter Warrick. The savior!!! And the stands will be filled with #1 jerseys and the team will win 4 or 5 games.... but hey, at least we got the toy that everyone wants the jersey of... cause it looks cool.
I'm guessing you jumped on board in the Marvin years and weren't around for the Shula years, the Klingler years, the Akili Smith and Bruce Coslett years. I'm yet to see anyone who was really a fan in the 90's an attending games and living through this nightmare before completely celebrating the pick. There are people who are saying he'll be good and he's an upgrade and so on and so forth, and sure, he will be good but he wasn't what the team needed to actually work towards a Championship.
RE: WR trio - jason - 05-06-2021
Somebody help me...
Has there been another year, where so many people wouldn't let go of the guy they wanted the Bengals to draft? Lord have mercy... I wanted Kyle Pitts, but **** him since he's in Atlanta. I wanted Chase over Sewell too, but I'da been ok with him. I'd have preferred Slater if they were gonna go T in the first. I guess it's just the burning feeling I have that Penei Sewell is fid'na find out he's not in the Pac 12 anymore. Maybe he turns out to be super awesome, but I just think Chase and Pitts are surer things than Penei, and we can't miss on a top 5 pick. Drafting for need is a sure fire way to build a sub par roster.
RE: WR trio - BengalsRocker - 05-06-2021
(05-06-2021, 06:56 PM)jason Wrote: Somebody help me...
Has there been another year, where so many people wouldn't let go of the guy they wanted the Bengals to draft? Lord have mercy... I wanted Kyle Pitts, but **** him since he's in Atlanta. I wanted Chase over Sewell too, but I'da been ok with him. I'd have preferred Slater if they were gonna go T in the first. I guess it's just the burning feeling I have that Penei Sewell is fid'na find out he's not in the Pac 12 anymore. Maybe he turns out to be super awesome, but I just think Chase and Pitts are surer things than Penei, and we can't miss on a top 5 pick. Drafting for need is a sure fire way to build a sub par roster.
The thing here being missed is it affects how the defense plays against our team, which to some, means Higgins & Boyd aren't good players.
They are good/great players but adding that 3rd piece that brings downfield threat(not to mention QB chemistry/timing)that AJ Green wasn't bringing is huge.
If people want to get hurt about it take it more as a slam on AJ Green. A complete shell of his former self.
Even as an old vet he was supposed to fill that role and succeed in 2020.
He was awful and did not. He might have drawn some extra attention but what does that mean going into 2021 being refocused on Higgins & Boyd without it?
Not good.
RE: WR trio - Bilbo Saggins - 05-06-2021
(05-06-2021, 06:56 PM)jason Wrote: Somebody help me...
Has there been another year, where so many people wouldn't let go of the guy they wanted the Bengals to draft? Lord have mercy... I wanted Kyle Pitts, but **** him since he's in Atlanta. I wanted Chase over Sewell too, but I'da been ok with him. I'd have preferred Slater if they were gonna go T in the first. I guess it's just the burning feeling I have that Penei Sewell is fid'na find out he's not in the Pac 12 anymore. Maybe he turns out to be super awesome, but I just think Chase and Pitts are surer things than Penei, and we can't miss on a top 5 pick. Drafting for need is a sure fire way to build a sub par roster.
I think that it's a bi-product of the hype about him being "generational" and "potential HOF" and all of that. The allure, the fantasy, was a return to some of the best teams that had the best relative OL play when compared to not so good seasons. If you bought into the hype, yeah I guess I could see how that would stick in your craw. The Bengals FO obviously didn't. Sewell's 40 time and broad jump were great - other measurables and level of competition not so much. Chase had the most productive college season of all time(at the time) when he played with Burrow. His workout was off the charts. His opt out time was spent training like a maniac and proving that he can handle a pro-style workload.
Even if Sewell was "your guy", it does seem a bit silly to not see the other side. Maybe it was a bit of a stretch to envision a 20 year old rookie coming in from the PAC-12, playing out of his mind at guard, seamlessly transitioning back to tackle at just the right time, and expecting it to go off without a hitch. Maybe the talk of Sewell at 2, Sewell at 4, Sewell the stonewaller HOF OG/OT who will never allow a sack stuff was a bit much. I think that it's getting kind of silly at this point. If the OL is a clunker again, well that'll stink, but at least they have an elite WR and may change their processes if the O continues to be hamstrung.