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+---- Thread: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment (/Thread-Legitimate-Arguments-Against-the-2nd-Amendment)
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - fredtoast - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:11 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: There are people like you and there are people like me. Some people need the laws, others do not.
even if you can control yourself you need the protection from other people. That is what we all need.
You know, like when you were begging for a safe place for white people to live.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - fredtoast - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:19 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Basically, the person knew that if they are disrespectful to you that they would get their teeth kicked in, would they be disrespectful to you? Or would they be more civil, knowing that there is a real life consequence to being boorish?
If someone insults you and they know they don't have to worry about the physical consequences and they haven't broken any laws, then you are left with a society that has people being rude to each other without consequence.
What you need to do is learn a little history.
In every case in every nation on earth people were much crueler to each other when there was little or no legitimate authority or laws. They took what they wanted. They killed who they wanted. They did not live together in peace and respect each other.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - GMDino - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:19 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: At one point I would agree with you on this. However, a lot of our criminals are created due to arbitrary laws.
Drugs being illegal
CC being illegal
underage drinking being illegal
contributing to the delinquency of a minor illegal
Yeaaahhh....I'm not gonna ask what you want to do with minors.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - Sovereign Nation - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because you claim that there was no problem with accidents involving drunk drivers JUST because you diod not see any.
Then I point out that accidents involving drunk drivers are a big problem even though I have never seen one in person.
Your argument was based on meaningless anecdotal evidence. I was just pointing out how stupid and meaningless that is. it proves nothing, and your opinion based on this is worthless.
I see where you are making your mistake.
I didn't not say that there was no problems with accidents involving drunk drivers. Only that there wasn't an increase in these accidents.
That was the original premise of your argument, that the law prevents more of these accidents from happening.
I contended that the law didn't prevent the accidents. MichaelSean even proves my point, the law didn't stop him. He knew it was wrong and still did it. He only stopped when the law gave him a weak punishment of suspension. I also think him aging had something to do with it as well.
It is an easy mistake to make, so don't beat yourself up to much over it.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - michaelsean - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:19 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: At one point I would agree with you on this. However, a lot of our criminals are created due to arbitrary laws.
Drugs being illegal
CC being illegal
underage drinking being illegal
contributing to the delinquency of a minor illegal
there are many more.
Now ask yourself, why would you go and beat these people senseless? Is it because you are unable to control your temper? Or are they deserving of your actions.
If they are deserving, then would they act the way they are if not for the protection afforded to them by laws?
Basically, the person knew that if they are disrespectful to you that they would get their teeth kicked in, would they be disrespectful to you? Or would they be more civil, knowing that there is a real life consequence to being boorish?
If someone insults you and they know they don't have to worry about the physical consequences and they haven't broken any laws, then you are left with a society that has people being rude to each other without consequence.
There are some arbitrary laws that create criminals. DUI isn't one of them.
The problem is what constitutes an insult. Is that merely for the offended to decide? If a big guy insults a little guy, can the little guy shoot him because he can't take him or does the less rude society only apply when people are evenly matched?
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - Sovereign Nation - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:24 PM)GMDino Wrote:
Yeaaahhh....I'm not gonna ask what you want to do with minors.
pssst.. If you buy minors alcohol it is illegal.
I have never done it, but I know it is illegal to assist minors in delinquent behavior.
Don't let that stop you from your insinuations though.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - fredtoast - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:24 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I see where you are making your mistake.But you are still not seeing your mistake.
I didn't not say that there was no problems with accidents involving drunk drivers. Only that there wasn't an increase in these accidents.
Your anecdotal evidence proves nothing. It is completely worthless. It is a waste of time arguing based on worthless information.
And, if fact, you anecdotal evidence did not even prove what you claim it proved.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - michaelsean - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:24 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I see where you are making your mistake.
I didn't not say that there was no problems with accidents involving drunk drivers. Only that there wasn't an increase in these accidents.
That was the original premise of your argument, that the law prevents more of these accidents from happening.
I contended that the law didn't prevent the accidents. MichaelSean even proves my point, the law didn't stop him. He knew it was wrong and still did it. He only stopped when the law gave him a weak punishment of suspension. I also think him aging had something to do with it as well.
It is an easy mistake to make, so don't beat yourself up to much over it.
The law punishes, and you can be damn sure people are afraid of the punishment. So should murder be against the law because you seem to be arguing that if it doesn't stop everyone it's useless.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - GMDino - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:26 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: pssst.. If you buy minors alcohol it is illegal.
I have never done it, but I know it is illegal to assist minors in delinquent behavior.
Don't let that stop you from your insinuations though.
YOU complained that "a lot of our criminals are created due to arbitrary laws."
YOU cited "contributing to the delinquency of a minor".
So my question is why you don't do it then? I mean if you think it is an arbitrary law and you don't rely on laws to make you do the right thing...you should have no problem doing it. Yet you say you never did it.
Interesting.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - Sovereign Nation - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:25 PM)michaelsean Wrote: There are some arbitrary laws that create criminals. DUI isn't one of them.
The problem is what constitutes an insult. Is that merely for the offended to decide? If a big guy insults a little guy, can the little guy shoot him because he can't take him or does the less rude society only apply when people are evenly matched?
An armed society is a polite society.
The big guy should know that if he insults a little guy, that little guy might have a gun.
Again, real world consequences for being boorish and rude.
The little guy should also be aware that the big gun might have a gun as well.
2 reasoned men would never want to get into a duel. Never.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - Sovereign Nation - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: YOU complained that "a lot of our criminals are created due to arbitrary laws."
YOU cited "contributing to the delinquency of a minor".
So my question is why you don't do it then? I mean if you think it is an arbitrary law and you don't rely on laws to make you do the right thing...you should have no problem doing it. Yet you say you never did it.
Interesting.
I also said drugs.
I don't do those either.
You see. People can do the right thing.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - michaelsean - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:30 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: An armed society is a polite society.
The big guy should know that if he insults a little guy, that little guy might have a gun.
Again, real world consequences for being boorish and rude.
The little guy should also be aware that the big gun might have a gun as well.
2 reasoned men would never want to get into a duel. Never.
That's how you think it works?
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - GMDino - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:30 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: An armed society is a polite society.
The big guy should know that if he insults a little guy, that little guy might have a gun.
Again, real world consequences for being boorish and rude.
The little guy should also be aware that the big gun might have a gun as well.
2 reasoned men would never want to get into a duel. Never.
Reasoned people should feel that way without the fear that the other person is armed.
Wait...that doesn't work does it because someone may be armed anyway.
So why would a reasoned person feel the other person is reasoned? Shoot first, ask questions later...that's what dad always said.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - Sovereign Nation - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:29 PM)michaelsean Wrote: The law punishes, and you can be damn sure people are afraid of the punishment. So should murder be against the law because you seem to be arguing that if it doesn't stop everyone it's useless.
I would rather live in a society where people wouldn't want to murder you. Not one where they are worried about it being against the law.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - fredtoast - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:30 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: An armed society is a polite society.
Totally false.
People who make claims like this are just uneducated and completely ignorant of all history.
A highly armed society is always more violent. Always has been throughout history.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - michaelsean - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:33 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I would rather live in a society where people wouldn't want to murder you. Not one where they are worried about it being against the law.
That doesn't exist.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - GMDino - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:32 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I also said drugs.
I don't do those either.
You see. People can do the right thing.
Why though?
You said it is arbitrary. Yet you continue not to do it as if it were wrong somehow.
Interesting.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - Sovereign Nation - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: Reasoned people should feel that way without the fear that the other person is armed.
Wait...that doesn't work does it because someone may be armed anyway.
So why would a reasoned person feel the other person is reasoned? Shoot first, ask questions later...that's what dad always said.
Explains a lot.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - fredtoast - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:33 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I would rather live in a society where people wouldn't want to murder you. Not one where they are worried about it being against the law.
Yes, everyone would rather live in make believe land.
But most of us understand reality.
RE: Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment - GMDino - 02-23-2016
(02-23-2016, 01:34 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Explains a lot.
So you grew up with out a father figure?
That explains a lot more.