(07-13-2016, 12:03 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Palmer's statline against the Packers probably would have won 4 or 5 of the Marvin Lewis-era losses.  We don't need a miracle, we just needed our QBs to play a not awful game.

(07-13-2016, 01:02 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: To be honest though, Fitzgerald made Palmers stat line look a lot better. Fitzgerald probably had close to 100 YAC yards that game. Plus one of the TDs Palmer had was a bad pass that bounced out of a defenders hands and one of the cardinals players caught it.

(07-13-2016, 01:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, but that play Fitzgerald worked his magic did require Palmer running around like a maniac and avoiding pressure until the coverage broke down...it's not like he just dropped back and gave Fitzgerald and easy layup and watched him do all the work.  Common knowledge says that Palmer is a cement-footed statue that gets sacked or tosses a pick the second pressure comes his way rather than pulling a Pig Ben.

At any rate, whether the numbers were gotten by stupid luck or otherwise I think we could have won a number of Marvin's playoff games with a similar performance.  It's not like we needed a 2012 Flacco-like run to win a single game in the playoffs in the past decade.

(07-13-2016, 01:58 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: If Gio wouldn't have fumbled and Green wouldn't have dropped the TD pass Dalton would have had a similar stat line to Palmer in the Chargers playoff game.

(07-13-2016, 02:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Let's see...


Dalton was 29 of 51 (56.9%) for 334 yards, a 6.5 average, 1 TD, 2 INTs, 2 fumbles, 1 lost for 3 total turnovers, 67.0 rtg
Palmer was 25 of 41 (61.0%) for 349 yards, an 8.5 average, 3 TDs, 2 INTs, 1 fumble, 0 lost for 2 total turnovers, 92.4 rtg


Meh, I realize you and I are both pretty biased, but that doesn't seem all that close to me.  For all the "what ifs" and "couldashouldabeens" Palmer had 3 TDs and 2 TOs and Dalton had 1 TD and 3 TOs and that might very well be the only stat that matters.

(07-13-2016, 02:25 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: And Daltons stats were hurt due to his teammates and Palmers stats were propped up due to his teammates. If you change one play Palmer could have only had 1 TD and 3 TOs that game.

(07-13-2016, 02:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: And I guess if you changed Dalton's one TD pass into an INT he could have had 0 TDs and 4 TOs and we wouldn't have given him that contract and AJ McCarron would be the starter and he would be the next Tom Brady.

But seriously, you're saying Dalton and Palmer had similar stat-lines as long as you change the numbers around, right?  Neat.

(07-13-2016, 02:35 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: But there wasn't a play in the Chargers playoff game where Dalton threw the ball directly at a defender, hit the defenders hands, and then popped into the air and a Bengal (who he wasn't even throwing to) caught it for a TD. There was a play exactly like that with Palmer and the Cardinals against Green Bay though.

(07-13-2016, 12:03 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Palmer's statline against the Packers probably would have won 4 or 5 of the Marvin Lewis-era losses.  We don't need a miracle, we just needed our QBs to play a not awful game.

(07-13-2016, 12:01 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: No McCarron contributed to the loss. He didn't contribute to the near comeback win. No one has been able to prove me wrong about it either. Only deflections.

Quote:

• 1st and 10 at CIN 36
  (13:29 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short right to A.Green to CIN 40 for 4 yards (W.Gay)
• 2nd and 6 at CIN 40
  (12:55 - 1st) J.Hill left guard to CIN 40 for no gain (R.Shazier)
• 3rd and 6 at CIN 40
  (12:55 - 1st) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CIN-A.Whitworth, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 40 - No Play
• 3rd and 11 at CIN 35
  (12:00 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short right to T.Eifert to CIN 44 for 9 yards (R.Shazier; J.Jones)
  

Quote:

• 1st and 10 at CIN 29
  (8:14 - 1st) J.Hill right tackle to CIN 28 for -1 yards (A.Moats; J.Harrison)
• 2nd and 11 at CIN 28
  (7:51 - 1st) A.McCarron pass short left to M.Jones ran ob at CIN 41 for 13 yards
• 1st and 10 at CIN 41
  (7:18 - 1st) PENALTY on CIN-A.Whitworth, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 41 - No Play
• 1st and 15 at CIN 36
  (6:56 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short left to A.Green to CIN 43 for 7 yards (R.Shazier). PENALTY on PIT-J.Harrison, Defensive Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 36 - No Play
• 1st and 10 at CIN 41
  (6:43 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass incomplete short left. [Thrown Away
• 2nd and 10 at CIN 41
  (6:38 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.McCarron sacked at CIN 39 for -2 yards (J.Harrison)
• 3rd and 12 at CIN 39
  (5:56 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short right to T.Eifert to PIT 45 for 16 yards (W.Gay; S.Tuitt)
• 1st and 10 at PIT 45
  (5:16 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Hill right end to PIT 46 for -1 yards (R.Shazier)
• 2nd and 11 at PIT 46
  (4:41 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short right to T.Eifert to PIT 38 for 8 yards (A.Blake)
• 3rd and 3 at PIT 38
  (3:58 - 1st) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass incomplete short right to T.Eifert (R.Golden)
• 4th and 3 at PIT 38
  (3:53 - 1st) K.Huber punts 32 yards to PIT 6, Center-C.Harris, downed by CIN-B.Tate
  

Quote:

• 1st and 10 at CIN 7
  (13:06 - 2nd) J.Hill left tackle to CIN 9 for 2 yards (B.Dupree)
• 2nd and 8 at CIN 9
  (12:36 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short middle to M.Sanu to CIN 14 for 5 yards (B.Boykin)
• 3rd and 3 at CIN 14
  (11:49 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass incomplete short left to T.Eifert
  

Quote:

• 1st and 10 at CIN 29
  (10:32 - 2nd) A.McCarron FUMBLES (Aborted) at CIN 29, and recovers at CIN 28. A.McCarron to CIN 28 for no gain (R.Shazier)
• 2nd and 11 at CIN 28
  (9:50 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.McCarron sacked at CIN 19 for -9 yards (C.Heyward). FUMBLES (C.Heyward) [C.Heyward], recovered by CIN-C.Boling at CIN 17. C.Boling to CIN 17 for no gain (S.McLendon). Sack yardage is -11 yard
• 3rd and 22 at CIN 17
  (9:05 - 2nd) (Shotgun) G.Bernard right guard to CIN 31 for 14 yards (W.Allen)
  

Quote:

• 1st and 10 at CIN 47
  (5:46 - 2nd) J.Hill right tackle to CIN 44 for -3 yards (B.Dupree)
• 2nd and 13 at CIN 44
  (5:17 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass incomplete short middle to J.Hill [C.Heyward]
• 3rd and 13 at CIN 44
  (5:12 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass deep right intended for M.Jones INTERCEPTED by A.Blake at PIT 24. A.Blake to CIN 41 for 35 yards (G.Bernard)
  

Quote:

• 1st and 10 at CIN 20
  (2:27 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short right to G.Bernard to CIN 24 for 4 yards (R.Shazier)
• 2nd and 6 at CIN 24
  (2:07 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass incomplete short right to T.Eifert (R.Shazier)
• 3rd and 6 at CIN 24
  (2:02 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass incomplete deep right to A.Green
  

Quote:

• 1st and 10 at PIT 45
  (3:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short middle to J.Hill to PIT 42 for 3 yards (R.Shazier) [A.Moats]
• 2nd and 7 at PIT 42
  (2:57 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short left to M.Jones ran ob at PIT 37 for 5 yards
• 3rd and 2 at PIT 37
  (2:52 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass incomplete short right. (Thrown Away
• 4th and 2 at PIT 37
  (2:46 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass short middle to M.Jones to PIT 28 for 9 yards (A.Moats)
• 1st and 10 at PIT 28
  (2:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.McCarron scrambles left tackle to PIT 25 for 3 yards (S.Tuitt)
• 
  (2:00 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning
• 2nd and 7 at PIT 25
  (2:00 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.McCarron pass incomplete short middle to M.Sanu
• 3rd and 7 at PIT 25
  (1:50 - 4th) A.J. Green 25 Yd pass from AJ McCarron (Two-Point Run Conversion Failed)
  

Quote:He didn't contribute to the near comeback win. No one has been able to prove me wrong about it either. Only deflections.

(07-17-2016, 01:15 AM)BigSeph Wrote: Nobody can "prove you wrong" on the topic of AJM because you have such a huge chip on your shoulder, it blocks your view of reality.

Just look at the drives from the game itself, and tell me what AJM was so bad at-


First drive of the game, 2-2 for 13 yards.  That's a first down most of the time, except when Whit jumps offsides and J Hill gets no gain on the ground.  Did AJ jump offsides?  Did he rush for 0 yards?  You're so delusional and ridiculous that you probably think Whit jumped because of AJ's voice, it's not as good as Andy's voice.  And hey maybe Hill got no gain because AJ didn't hand him the ball fast enough for him to look at the OL and make a cut.  


AJM - 4-6, 44 yards, sacked once.
Rest of team- J Hill 2 rushes, -2 yards.  Whit -5 yards false start again.  Obviously AJM sucks.


AJM 1-2, 5 yards
Rest of team- J Hill 1 rush, 2 yards


AJM 1 fumble (recovered), 1 sack+fumble (recovered)
Rest of team - Gio 1 rush, 14 yards

This is the first drive of the game where AJM did not outperform the rest of the entire offense.  


AJM- 0 for 2, 1 INT
Rest of team - J Hill 1 rush, -3 yards

This is the second drive of the game where AJM did not outperform the rest of the entire offense.




AJM - 1-2, 4 yards
Rest of team - 

That's the first half. 

If you were objective you would get the point - AJM did fine in that game, and brought the team back from 15 points down (you STILL have to protect the ball even if the defense hands it to you) in the 2nd half.  He got better as the game went on, as he got over his nerves (this was after all his first ever NFL playoff game and it was a rainstorm).

The rest of the team wasn't carrying him on their backs, he didn't start every drive at the Pitt 30 either.

I can only theorize that he took your mother out for a nice seafood dinner and never called her again.  You're that irrational when it comes to AJM.

You say "he didn't contribute to the near comeback win"

At the end of the 3rd quarter the Bengals were down 15-0.

To start the 4th quarter he throws a bomb to AJ Green, gets a 42 yard pass interference call.  Hill rushes twice to get it into the endzone from the 3 yard line.

Next drive-

AJM - 5-7, 56 yards

2 rush, 7 rush yards

rest of team- Burkhead 1 carry, 4 yards.  J Hill 2 carries, 3 yards

He equaled the rushing output of the RBs on that drive and drove the team down for a FG.  He didn't contribute?

Next drive-


AJM- 4-6, 42 yards, TD
1 rush, 3 yards
Rest of team- 

Gosh this AJM guy sure is producing yardage and moving the team down the field with barely any support on the ground, isn't he?

Next play was the Hill fumble, after AJ drove the team down and got them the lead and the defense stepped up (like they did all day) and gave the ball back to the offense.

So when you say 


It means you are either the most ignorant person in the history of message board posting (claiming something is true despite not watching the game or looking at the box score) or you have a real problem with AJM and you make weak emotional arguments against him rather than looking at the facts and making rational arguments.

That's not a false dilemma - you are either really ignorant or you really hate AJM so much it causes you to type irrational statements on the internet.

This is why nobody will ever "prove" anything to you, because you will downplay everything that DID happen, and pretend it was all because the rest of the team was so great except that one guy, AJM, who is just a poopyhead.  

(07-17-2016, 04:26 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: It's not above proving something right to me, it's about proving that McCarron did a good job in the playoffs. You can't do that either, because it didn't happen. The only thing McCarron did was dink and dunk. The defense played like a SB defense, and the people around McCarron didn't play bad at all. McCarron gave up a lot of sacks and fumbled the ball quite a bit this game, because he held onto the ball too long and had happy feet. The only drive that was ok was the last real drive of the game, where Green had to stop and jump up for the ball to get the TD.

First drive might not have been all of his fault, but he still didn't play well there. If he would have made a good play the Bengals might have had a first down. - Punt

The second drive McCarron dinked and dunked a couple of short passes where his weapons gave him as many yards through YAC as he did through the air, and McCarron having happy feet and giving the defense a sack. - Punt

The third drive McCarron couldn't even get a 1st down. - Punt

The fourth drive there were two fumbles one being 100% McCarrons fault, and other because of the center snapped it early. -Punt

The fifth drive he threw an incompletion and then an interception. - INT

The sixth drive he threw a screen to Gio and then two incompletions. - Punt

The seventh drive he threw a couple of short passes and then got a sack/fumble since he is terrible against pressure. -Fumble

The eighth drive he completed a meh pass to Green (Green was wide open and Green had to make a nice catch from it going out of bounds) and then he threw two incompletions. - Punt

The ninth drive he completed a couple of short passes and fumbles the ball and then Gio gets ktfo. - Fumble

The tenth drive he gets a ticky tack PI call and no other completions. -Hill TD (which started on the Steelers side of the field)

The eleventh drive RBs were involved in 46 out of 70 yards the offense. -FG

The twelfth drive we started on the Steelers side of the field and he threw a TD pass to Green. -Green TD

The thirteenth drive Hill fumbled. -Fumble

So out of all of those drives, he had one drive that you could argue was good (the twelfth). The rest of the game he looked like garbage, and the defense looked like the best defense in the league. What did he contribute to? Giving the Steelers the ball with good field position? The offense couldn't open up at all because McCarron was dinking and dunking and had trouble with any intermediate or long throws. I don't know how you think that McCarron did anything but awful that playoff game. It's probably because you fantasize about McCarron every night.

(07-17-2016, 09:47 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I could nit-pick Dalton's playoff performances the same way. cough cough

Don't get me started.

(07-17-2016, 04:26 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: It's not above proving something right to me, it's about proving that McCarron did a good job in the playoffs. You can't do that either, because it didn't happen. The only thing McCarron did was dink and dunk. The defense played like a SB defense, and the people around McCarron didn't play bad at all. McCarron gave up a lot of sacks and fumbled the ball quite a bit this game, because he held onto the ball too long and had happy feet. The only drive that was ok was the last real drive of the game, where Green had to stop and jump up for the ball to get the TD.

First drive might not have been all of his fault, but he still didn't play well there. If he would have made a good play the Bengals might have had a first down. - Punt

The second drive McCarron dinked and dunked a couple of short passes where his weapons gave him as many yards through YAC as he did through the air, and McCarron having happy feet and giving the defense a sack. - Punt

The third drive McCarron couldn't even get a 1st down. - Punt

The fourth drive there were two fumbles one being 100% McCarrons fault, and other because of the center snapped it early. -Punt

The fifth drive he threw an incompletion and then an interception. - INT

The sixth drive he threw a screen to Gio and then two incompletions. - Punt

The seventh drive he threw a couple of short passes and then got a sack/fumble since he is terrible against pressure. -Fumble

The eighth drive he completed a meh pass to Green (Green was wide open and Green had to make a nice catch from it going out of bounds) and then he threw two incompletions. - Punt

The ninth drive he completed a couple of short passes and fumbles the ball and then Gio gets ktfo. - Fumble

The tenth drive he gets a ticky tack PI call and no other completions. -Hill TD (which started on the Steelers side of the field)

The eleventh drive RBs were involved in 46 out of 70 yards the offense. -FG

The twelfth drive we started on the Steelers side of the field and he threw a TD pass to Green. -Green TD

The thirteenth drive Hill fumbled. -Fumble

So out of all of those drives, he had one drive that you could argue was good (the twelfth). The rest of the game he looked like garbage, and the defense looked like the best defense in the league. What did he contribute to? Giving the Steelers the ball with good field position? The offense couldn't open up at all because McCarron was dinking and dunking and had trouble with any intermediate or long throws. I don't know how you think that McCarron did anything but awful that playoff game. It's probably because you fantasize about McCarron every night.

Quote:Bengals vs Steelers: AJ McCarron impresses with fourth quarter performance

Quote:AJ McCarron up, key members of secondary down in Bengals' loss

Quote:It’s a shame Burfict and Jones end up the face of the team on this night. Their back-alley tactics eclipsed the glorious efforts of young quarterback AJ McCarron, receiver A.J. Green, who caught the go-ahead 25-yard TD toss with 1:50 left, and Pro Bowl tackle Andrew Whitworth.

(07-25-2016, 08:51 PM)BigSeph Wrote: You literally just put all negatives on McCarron and gave all positives to the rest of the team.

Well of course you can say AJ played poorly if you want to act ignorant.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/1/10/10745472/bengals-vs-steelers-aj-mccarron-impresses-with-fourth-quarter



http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/195407/aj-mccarron-up-key-members-of-secondary-down-in-bengals-playoff-loss



http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/sports/pro-sports/archdeacon-bengals-playoff-skid-hits-new-low-in-me/np2gM/?source=ddn_skip_stub





Basically everyone in the world saw AJM play a pretty decent game, all things considered, and guide the team to a gutsy comeback at the end to take the lead.


You can't see what happened because of that huge chip on your shoulder obstructing your view of reality.

(07-17-2016, 04:26 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: It's not above proving something right to me, it's about proving that McCarron did a good job in the playoffs. You can't do that either, because it didn't happen. The only thing McCarron did was dink and dunk. The defense played like a SB defense, and the people around McCarron didn't play bad at all. McCarron gave up a lot of sacks and fumbled the ball quite a bit this game, because he held onto the ball too long and had happy feet. The only drive that was ok was the last real drive of the game, where Green had to stop and jump up for the ball to get the TD.

First drive might not have been all of his fault, but he still didn't play well there. If he would have made a good play the Bengals might have had a first down. - Punt

The second drive McCarron dinked and dunked a couple of short passes where his weapons gave him as many yards through YAC as he did through the air, and McCarron having happy feet and giving the defense a sack. - Punt

The third drive McCarron couldn't even get a 1st down. - Punt

The fourth drive there were two fumbles one being 100% McCarrons fault, and other because of the center snapped it early. -Punt

The fifth drive he threw an incompletion and then an interception. - INT

The sixth drive he threw a screen to Gio and then two incompletions. - Punt

The seventh drive he threw a couple of short passes and then got a sack/fumble since he is terrible against pressure. -Fumble

The eighth drive he completed a meh pass to Green (Green was wide open and Green had to make a nice catch from it going out of bounds) and then he threw two incompletions. - Punt

The ninth drive he completed a couple of short passes and fumbles the ball and then Gio gets ktfo. - Fumble

The tenth drive he gets a ticky tack PI call and no other completions. -Hill TD (which started on the Steelers side of the field)

The eleventh drive RBs were involved in 46 out of 70 yards the offense. -FG

The twelfth drive we started on the Steelers side of the field and he threw a TD pass to Green. -Green TD

The thirteenth drive Hill fumbled. -Fumble

So out of all of those drives, he had one drive that you could argue was good (the twelfth). The rest of the game he looked like garbage, and the defense looked like the best defense in the league. What did he contribute to? Giving the Steelers the ball with good field position? The offense couldn't open up at all because McCarron was dinking and dunking and had trouble with any intermediate or long throws. I don't know how you think that McCarron did anything but awful that playoff game. It's probably because you fantasize about McCarron every night.

(07-26-2016, 01:31 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Those 3 drives were better than any of the entire games played by a Bengals offense in 10 years. And, AJM has matched Dalton's 4 playoff game TD total in only one game. Plus, he had 1 INT, which is better than Dalton's average of 1.5 per playoff game.

If I were to believe your argument of the rest of the team sucking for Dalton, but that the rest of the team almost winning it for AJM, then ask yourself, do you want a QB the rest of the team will play well for in the playoffs or do you want a QB the rest of the team sucks for?

(07-26-2016, 01:05 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: You could put Sanu in the QB position and he would do just as well.