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Black Sunday - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Black Sunday (/Thread-Black-Sunday) |
RE: Black Sunday - GMDino - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 08:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Enjoy your conversation ![]() This is a sad attempt even for you. Let's remove your misleading bold and place it where the emphasis should be. (11-26-2018, 04:25 PM)Dill Wrote: Of course you are. That is the best defense of a choice to shut down the border and deny asylum seekers the opportunity to present themselves legally to U.S. authorities. What was Dill saying was "the best defense"? YOUR statement. (11-26-2018, 04:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree the violence was unnecessary. I'm simply placing the onus on the folks breaking the law instead of those protecting it. Which came in response to him saying they are alternative to closing down the border. (11-26-2018, 04:06 PM)Dill Wrote: You speak as if that were some untried alternative; but we had a program for legal entry in place before Sunday. So when he said: (11-26-2018, 08:25 PM)Dill Wrote: You can create red herrings by falsely accusing people of deploying them. He actually wrote those words...while talking about YOUR statement being used to defend the actions that were taken at the border. He never quoted you saying it, or accused you OF saying it but that you defended it using "the best defense". I mean I know you'll never admit you are wrong, but that's flat out lying. RE: Black Sunday - GMDino - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 07:12 PM)Beaker Wrote: It amazes me that there are some who think the US should just let people show up at our border and demand to be let in....and we should do so or we are uncaring jerks. People rushing a border crossing in an attempt to overwhelm is an invasion. I don't care if there were women and children in the crowd, they had no right to assume their actions were in any way justified. It is legal to seek asylum at the border. It is illegal to break into a house. Using code words like "overwhelm" and "invasion" doesn't change what is legal and illegal and that Trump wants it ALL to be illegal. RE: Black Sunday - bfine32 - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 08:53 PM)GMDino Wrote: Your unbiased play by play aside. I never mentioned anything about closing down the borders; I mentioned about people entering the country illegally. So you, Dill, and the rest of "we" can assert he didn't introduce a stance I didn't make; but it's exactly what happened. What to discuss the merits of closing the border, feel free. But don't say someone is defending it because they don't want folks entering illegally, unless you want to introduce an argument never made. So be careful Liberal when you want to accuse someone of "flat out lying". RE: Black Sunday - GMDino - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 09:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Your unbiased play by play aside. I never mentioned anything about closing down the borders; I mentioned about people entering the country illegally. So you, Dill, and the rest of "we" can assert he didn't introduce a stance I didn't make; but it's exactly what happened. In context Dill was correct and you put words in his mouth. Stand by it if you want...I'd expect nothing less. RE: Black Sunday - Mike M (the other one) - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 03:30 PM)Dill Wrote: If you are speaking only of those LEGALLY ADMITTED with refugee status, then the average under Obama was about 110,000 per year. In 2018 so far (almost December) the number is 21,000 processed. (In 1980, Carter admitted 207,000.) Provide links to backing your data please. Preferably from the USCIS Website. I want to see this because for the 1st quarter 2018, I see almost 30k. So I want to be clear we are talking about the same thing. It takes about 6 months to process one, so they have a 6 month lag. (11-26-2018, 03:53 PM)jj22 Wrote: Yes, you clearly said you was fine with the kids being gassed. Who's fine with the Kids being gassed??? No one. it's a shame that the kids and women are being used by the men and taking the brunt of the gassing. And the media is feeding you that shit and your lapping it up like a little puppy dogs. I already said how this was going to go down over a month ago and many of you laughed at me or didn't believe me (right Fred?). With the pics in the media of the women and children while the men hide behind them. I guess some of you haven't seen the pics where kids and women being pushed forward by their hair? Didn't think so, you only see what fits your narrative and jump all over the rest of us for supporting Trump. Edit: If the wall was up, would they be bum rushing the border to get in??? RE: Black Sunday - Mike M (the other one) - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 04:20 PM)Dill Wrote: No. Separation was the goal. The hope was that word would spread South--"We'll take your children if you reach our borders." Imagine how much of this wouldn't be necessary if you allowed him to build the wall in full? RE: Black Sunday - GMDino - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 09:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Provide links to backing your data please. Preferably from the USCIS Website. Every single person who says "eh, they are doing illegal things to it's on them". Every one of them is saying its fine that kids are being gassed...they just aren't blaming the people doing the gassing. RE: Black Sunday - GMDino - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 09:19 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Imagine how much of this wouldn't be necessary if you allowed him to build the wall in full? He's allowed...but he hasn't had Mexico pay for it yet. ![]() All seriousness aside there is good security at that entry point. If Trump doesn't close it there is less frustration and no need to gas anyone. RE: Black Sunday - Mike M (the other one) - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 04:54 PM)Benton Wrote: You lost me here. Most likely trying to compare Trump to Hitler and use the "fear" method that he accuses Republicans of doing, which is extremely offensive and is not even in the same level. Anyone can draw similarities to just about anything if they are willing to bend the truth. RE: Black Sunday - fredtoast - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 09:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I already said how this was going to go down over a month ago and many of you laughed at me or didn't believe me (right Fred?). You mean this from 11-8? (11-08-2018, 06:54 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Most of the caravan has decided to stay in Mexico. RE: Black Sunday - Mike M (the other one) - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 05:42 PM)jj22 Wrote: Honestly no. I may need to reread it. So you think Trump is going to go after the Legal Immigrants and push them out as well? Isn't that what Hitler did, pushed out all Jews legal or not? Even pushed them right into their graves. Let me know when that happens and I'll switch sides gladly, til then stop spouting idiotic comparisons to compare someone to an event that is never going to happen, it's rather embarrassing and highly offensive for those that did live thru it. RE: Black Sunday - fredtoast - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 09:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: With the pics in the media of the women and children while the men hide behind them. I guess some of you haven't seen the pics where kids and women being pushed forward by their hair? Didn't think so, you only see what fits your narrative and jump all over the rest of us for supporting Trump. No I have not seen those pics. Pushed by their hair? Got a link? I have seen a lot of photos and I see men, women, and children throughout the entire caravan. RE: Black Sunday - fredtoast - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 09:45 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So you think Trump is going to go after the Legal Immigrants and push them out as well? Well here are some things he has said Trump pointed to what he considered historical precedent to defend his singling out of the Muslim religion with his ban. He used FDR’s Proclamations 2525, 2526, and 2527, which applied to Japanese, Italian, and German Americans in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor as examples. Those proclamations authorized the U.S. to “detain allegedly potentially dangerous enemy aliens” and led to the internment of many of these individuals. On Fox Business’ Varney and Company, Trump advocated for the first time monitoring mosques as a way to deal with radical Islamic terror. Asked if he’d consider closing some mosques, Trump said “absolutely, I think it’s great.” When he starts talking bout internment camps and shutting down entire religions he is getting closer and closer to Hitler's plan. RE: Black Sunday - Mike M (the other one) - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 09:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean this from 11-8? Yes thank you, couldn't remember the exact date, but I said it in advance, and what was your response again?? At as to the second part of your thread, I didn't expect them and neither did many others for them to arrive as quickly as they did at the border. I think everyone understands that part. RE: Black Sunday - Dill - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 09:45 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So you think Trump is going to go after the Legal Immigrants and push them out as well? You are speaking for those who did "live thru it"? https://www.newsweek.com/im-holocaust-survivor-trumps-america-feels-germany-nazis-took-over-876965 What Hitler did was rouse people up against liberals and others who did not "belong" in the new Reich, comparing them to animals and vermin. And Hitler was not just after Jews. The Nazi party platform demanded expulsion of post-1914 emigres and a shutdown of all new immigration, securing borders to prevent "others" from breaking in--like all countries do, they would say. And while we are on the subject of comparisons, historians and political scientists see a professional responsibility in comparing Hitler's rise to power in Nazi Germany to the rise of other autocratic regimes--especially where a rollback of democracy is involved. No professional doing that assumes such comparison implies a time table to the holocaust for any country so compared. All recognize a regime could fall far short of the Holocaust/WWII and still be pretty bad. And few see a problem with taking notes and applying them to the current U.S. Most would agree that the critical period for salvaging disintegrating democracies is BEFORE a potential dictator takes over, when he has begun denigrating the free press, the courts and other institutions whose integrity is necessary for Democracy, appealing to identity grievances while defining and targeting parasitical "outsiders." And most would agree that the U.S. is currently experiencing some warning signs commonly seen on the road to despotism. To say that is not to predict another Holocaust or claim Trump=Hitler, but to acknowledge that the failure of ordinary people to stand up to illiberal politics can lead to very bad, if as yet indeterminable, results. I've seen nothing in Trump's behavior to suggest he could actually lead the U.S. into a dictatorship, which would require focus and work ethic. But he can certainly generate divisions and gin up international conflicts which could make democracy unworkable in the U.S., leaving others to sort out the mess for years to come. By the time "it" happens, whatever bad thing may follow from the current embrace of illiberal politics, it may be too late to stop it. That is why people need to switch sides BEFORE it happens. RE: Black Sunday - michaelsean - 11-26-2018 (11-26-2018, 09:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well here are some things he has said Or FDR. Just sayin’ RE: Black Sunday - Beaker - 11-27-2018 (11-26-2018, 08:09 PM)Benton Wrote: Wait... How do you stop them from showing up at the border (outside of diplomacy, which I'll repeat is what we should have done)? Its fine to want to come here. But the legal way, not rushing the border en masse. RE: Black Sunday - Beaker - 11-27-2018 (11-26-2018, 08:57 PM)GMDino Wrote: It is legal to seek asylum at the border. I used the words overwhelm and invasion because that's what they are trying to do currently. And it is legal to seek asylum. Just like its legal to come to your front door and ask to be let in. But as soon as they try to push their way past you into your house because they are frustrated you won't let them in it becomes illegal. Just like at the border. At that point, the border guards should be allowed to prevent them from crossing as necessary. And Trump has said before he is ok with immigrants coming to this country legally through proper channels. I can't stand Trump, but I gotta agree with him on that. They can come through proper channels, but not illegally. RE: Black Sunday - Beaker - 11-27-2018 (11-26-2018, 07:52 PM)jj22 Wrote: Well when you have it on your door that they are welcomed And they are still welcomed if they come legally, not by pushing their way in because they feel they shouldnt have to wait. RE: Black Sunday - Millhouse - 11-27-2018 Just curious, but is leaving poverty a legitimate legal reason for asylum? I always assumed requesting asylum was because of political, religious, or etc. persecution. Anyways I dont have any issue with how this is being handled. I don't like Trump, but that doesn't mean I want 1000s of people to just stream across our border. Think about the message that would send to the millions in poverty in the Americas, by just letting them all in. I guess I must be racist because eff that. If they want in, get in line like everyone else around the world has to. Not our fault their countries are crapholes. |