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+--- Thread: Does Burrow need to hit another level? (/Thread-Does-Burrow-need-to-hit-another-level)
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Frank Booth - 11-14-2023
“The 2nd best qb in the league has to become the #1 best qb in the league, otherwise he isn’t that good”
Is what I got out of this
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Synric - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 11:39 AM)Joelist Wrote: The linemen are fine for what they are, and that is power blockers. We need to tailor our scheme to fit their strengths (you know, like other successful teams do). They should be firing off blocks into the defense and driving forward not falling back or moving laterally. We went and got a bunch of big power linemen - play power.
Being able to pin and pull is a big part of a successful power run game.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Ell Prez - 11-14-2023
(11-13-2023, 10:37 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: He had a bad game.
Michael Jordan had bad games. Tom Brady had bad games.
You want perfection. It's not a thing.
How many bad games has Burrow has this year? Way too many. He’s the highest paid player in the entire league. Shouldn’t he be playing better? We’re going to lose key players in FA and also will be restricted in singing new FA players because of his contract. Burrow knows that. He needs to play better. He had Chase and Boyd. 2 capable players to move the chains. The line has been playing much better. This D is basically the same outside of safeties. But the o line is better so I think that more than offsets the lost in S. Why is this team so bad this year, compared to last year and compared to expectations? The expectation was #1 or #2 seed with home play off games.
At best we’re the 6th of 7th wild card. We’re not making the SB. We’re not making the AFC championship. We may not even make the playoffs. We may not even get 2 wins with our 4 remaining AFCN games.
And next year we probably lose Higgins and won’t make big FA moved bc we need to sign Chase. So where do we go from here? The highest paid player in the NFL needs to play better. He’s the only reason we’re winning and in these games- but that’s not good enough.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Ell Prez - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:01 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: “The 2nd best qb in the league has to become the #1 best qb in the league, otherwise he isn’t that good”
Is what I got out of this
How is he the 2nd best QB in the league this year?
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Frank Booth - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:27 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: How is he the 2nd best QB in the league this year?
When healthy he is undoubtedly the 2nd best qb in the league. Everyone knows this
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Nicomo Cosca - 11-14-2023
Do Chargers fans, Eagles fans, Ravens fans, etc cry about their QB’s contracts every time they throw a couple picks? It’s exhausting.
True franchise QB’s cost top dollar. That’s just how it works because they are so hard to come by. Doesn’t mean they’re going to play mistake free football week in week out.
I really hope we don’t have to hear “HiGheSt pAiD pLaYeR iN tHe LeAgUe” every time he doesn’t play a completely flawless game for the next however many years.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Ell Prez - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:33 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: When healthy he is undoubtedly the 2nd best qb in the league. Everyone knows this
He’s not the second best QB in the league this year. There’s quite a few players having better years: Mahomes, Tua, Stroud, Hurts, Jackson.
I’d like Burrow to have a better year than those guys. When you cash the check, the expectations change
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Ell Prez - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Do Chargers fans, Eagles fans, Ravens fans, etc cry about their QB’s contracts every time they throw a couple picks? It’s exhausting.
True franchise QB’s cost top dollar. That’s just how it works because they are so hard to come by. Doesn’t mean they’re going to play mistake free football week in week out.
I really hope we don’t have to hear “HiGheSt pAiD pLaYeR iN tHe LeAgUe” every time he doesn’t play a completely flawless game for the next however many years.
It’s not 1 game. We’re 5-4 and there’s some more L’s coming up. Obviously no one is upset we signed Burrow long term. But he needs to be better.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Nicomo Cosca - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:50 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: It’s not 1 game. We’re 5-4 and there’s some more L’s coming up. Obviously no one is upset we signed Burrow long term. But he needs to be better.
It’s completely disingenuous to act like the first 4-5 games was just Burrow sucking for no reason. Once the calf healed up he starting looking like one of the best QB’s in the league again.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Frank Booth - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:48 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: He’s not the second best QB in the league this year. There’s quite a few players having better years: Mahomes, Tua, Stroud, Hurts, Jackson.
I’d like Burrow to have a better year than those guys. When you cash the check, the expectations change
When healthy. Was he healthy the first 3 weeks? No. Since week 4, he’s been elite, and he’s been elite since 2021
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Rubekahn29 - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Do Chargers fans, Eagles fans, Ravens fans, etc cry about their QB’s contracts every time they throw a couple picks? It’s exhausting.
True franchise QB’s cost top dollar. That’s just how it works because they are so hard to come by. Doesn’t mean they’re going to play mistake free football week in week out.
I really hope we don’t have to hear “HiGheSt pAiD pLaYeR iN tHe LeAgUe” every time he doesn’t play a completely flawless game for the next however many years.
Eagles are 8-1. Ravens are winning the division. Chargers are the same old chargers.
That’s the difference. Burrow is not really playing up to those standards right now, let along highest paid standard.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Rubekahn29 - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 01:06 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: When healthy. Was he healthy the first 3 weeks? No. Since week 4, he’s been elite, and he’s been elite since 2021
Since week 4 he’s had 2 good games. 1 okay game, and 2 not great games. That’s not elite. Not even close.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 10:33 AM)Synric Wrote: I don't know where he's going with the play action stuff because I don't know the whole conversation but most of the play action motion for the Bengals is their RPO stuff.
Goodberry isn't wrong about the offense lacking speed. I mentioned in the Burrow gets hit alot thread I wasn't thrilled with the construction of the offense line because it did lack speed and athleticism. I also mentioned this off-season I wanted them to add skill players that offered more yards after catch because outside of Chase everyone else on the roster was below average.
He's not wrong there, agreed, and he has some pretty decent takes at times. I like the breakdowns from the former players much better though.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Rubekahn29 - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s completely disingenuous to act like the first 4-5 games was just Burrow sucking for no reason. Once the calf healed up he starting looking like one of the best QB’s in the league again.
Has he? I mean many are using week 4 or so as his first real healthy game.
He was not good against Seattle after drive 2. He was good against SF and Buffalo, and not good against the Texans. I just don’t get how you can see he’s playing the best when he’s really only had 2 good games all year. ARZ was decent too, but he didn’t carry any of these games to games. Defense did a lot of the heavy lifting in most of these recent wins. We saw what happened when they don’t.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Essex Johnson - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Do Chargers fans, Eagles fans, Ravens fans, etc cry about their QB’s contracts every time they throw a couple picks? It’s exhausting.
True franchise QB’s cost top dollar. That’s just how it works because they are so hard to come by. Doesn’t mean they’re going to play mistake free football week in week out.
I really hope we don’t have to hear “HiGheSt pAiD pLaYeR iN tHe LeAgUe” every time he doesn’t play a completely flawless game for the next however many years.
im not sure if I equate complaining about 2 key ints in 4th quarter means crying only about top tier QB... most fans are going to complain on a QB throwing two Ints in 4th be it Burrow or an average QB Jones, Howell etc... but if you are playing on an elite contract it tends to Comes with the territory... the more a player makes the higher the expectations are..
PS: Glad you are coming around to Herbert though :)
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Nicomo Cosca - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 01:21 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: im not sure if I equate complaining about 2 key ints in 4th quarter means crying only about top tier QB... most fans are going to complain on a QB throwing two Ints in 4th be it Burrow or an average QB Jones, Howell etc... but if you are playing on an elite contract it tends to Comes with the territory... the more a player makes the higher the expectations are..
PS: Glad you are coming around to Herbert though :)
They aren’t just complaining about the two interceptions though (literally everyone would agreed with that criticism), they are complaining about Burrow’s contract in general, and our record, while completely hand waving over why we started in such a hole.
And I never said Herbert wasn’t really good. He’s just not as good as Burrow. I used him as an example because he’s one of the highest paid players in the league, and has been inconsistent. Same with Lamar, same with Hurts.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Joelist - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 12:07 PM)Synric Wrote: Being able to pin and pull is a big part of a successful power run game.
It's A part but not THE part. We far too rarely let our line (especially the left side) just fire off and drive. We also need to either stop or really trim back the whole giving ground concept - one it makes Burrow look like he has more pressure than he does and two by making the pocket small it makes movement more difficult.
Also where are the designed rollouts, moving pockets and the like? Being in shotgun so much makes them harder but not impossible. If we lack speed aside from Chase then we need redesigned route concepts to help create space. Also with Tee out this is the chance to put Yoshi in and give him enough snaps to get a comfort level. I like Irwin a lot but he is similar to Boyd in terms of receiver type. Yoshi is speedy - his speed was one of the strengths per scouting. Ditto Chuck Sizzle - if speed is the need put our faster players in.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Nicomo Cosca - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 01:17 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Has he? I mean many are using week 4 or so as his first real healthy game.
He was not good against Seattle after drive 2. He was good against SF and Buffalo, and not good against the Texans. I just don’t get how you can see he’s playing the best when he’s really only had 2 good games all year. ARZ was decent too, but he didn’t carry any of these games to games. Defense did a lot of the heavy lifting in most of these recent wins. We saw what happened when they don’t.
Yes.
Joe Burrow of the @Bengals is the second QB in NFL history to complete at least 75.0% of his passes (min. 150 attempts) while throwing for 10+ TDs over a 4-game span.
— OptaSTATS (@OptaSTATS) November 6, 2023
The other was Peyton Manning during his 2013 MVP season. pic.twitter.com/9MDMXdUAUA
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Fan_in_Kettering - 11-14-2023
I have 99 problems — and Joe Burrow isn’t one of them.
What more can anyone ask of Joe? His calf is (mostly) healed and the Bengals are 5-4 with a less than stellar rushing attack.
For what it’s worth I’m far more concerned about the defense.
RE: Does Burrow need to hit another level? - Synric - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 01:33 PM)Joelist Wrote: It's A part but not THE part. We far too rarely let our line (especially the left side) just fire off and drive. We also need to either stop or really trim back the whole giving ground concept - one it makes Burrow look like he has more pressure than he does and two by making the pocket small it makes movement more difficult.
Also where are the designed rollouts, moving pockets and the like? Being in shotgun so much makes them harder but not impossible. If we lack speed aside from Chase then we need redesigned route concepts to help create space. Also with Tee out this is the chance to put Yoshi in and give him enough snaps to get a comfort level. I like Irwin a lot but he is similar to Boyd in terms of receiver type. Yoshi is speedy - his speed was one of the strengths per scouting. Ditto Chuck Sizzle - if speed is the need put our faster players in.
Umm yes that pretty much all they do. The mainstays of the Bengals rush offense are Duo and Inside zone both which are vertical inside running schemes they also do a solid if unspectacular job of running the inside trap off that. The issue is they cannot attack the edges of defenses with their rush offense being able to pin and pull to take advantage of alignment against the mainstay verticle rush offense. Doesn't matter of the OL "fires off and drives" if they have more than one defender filling their gap.
The only way the Bengals attack the edges are through wide outside screens from RPOs and swing passes. Right now they are missing chunks of their Power game like pitches tosses and slip screens.
Also designed roll outs and boots are more of the horizontal blocking schemes you can run roll outs with power but you do that by pulling OL similar to the toss and pitch plays. They ran a naked boot against the Bills it was off the zone stretch play though.