(05-29-2020, 11:36 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Black lives do matter.  Seems to me that too many people only believe that when they're the victim of white cops.  Black lives don't seem to matter to lots of urban gang members.  I think that's the rub many people have- only interracial confrontations cause such outrage.

(05-30-2020, 07:27 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: As for some posts in here, it's important in this discussion that we don't tag a left or right view on this. If we start politicising this, it loses the integrity of the discussion and simply makes people choose sides, which is defeating the point of a unified discussion. Joe simply was stating that black americans need to be heard, and they do. As a nation, as a people, we need to fix this and become united. He may personally be ignorant of the personal experiences of racism like many of us. Doesn't mean he is wrong.

Most people want the best for one another. I know I do. I hope everyone here typing away experiences a great life. The things we are seeing is not so, but it doesnt mean it has to remain this way. We can learn and grow from this. We just have to remove the us vs. them narrative. Unless it's sports, then I say, Who Dey!

(05-30-2020, 07:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: As 2pac once said "and they say it's the white man I'm to fear, but it's my own kind doing all the killing here".

2pac would be considered racist by 2020 standards.

That said, since this isn't leaving JN, I guess I'll provide my meaningless opinion:

1. The Minnesota cop was 100% wrong (clearly). He's a murderer that deserves everything coming his way.

2. We can't use this as evidence that killings like this happen all the time. They just don't. Most of the time, the media reports instantly any death of a black man to a white cop. Often while jumping to conclusions with little to no evidence. Feeding this narrative that we have a massive amount of racist cops just running around gunning down every innocent black man they see.

One time an "unarmed black man" turned out to be a drugged out dude that tried to mow down cops with his car.

-------

To sum this up, I do think we have a problem. I do think we need new standards and reform of how cops are screened, trained, and how they are treated when they commit questionable (at best) killings.

No, I don't think it's as big a problem as the media (etc) portrays...and I do think it's a problem that requires people to be open to dialogue from all sides...without labeling people racist if they aren't 100% lockstep with the narrative of systemic racism and corrupt murderous/racist cops infesting every police department. That's just going to cause an us vs them mentality among all sides.

(05-29-2020, 05:38 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: This last case was murder but in 2019 370 whites, 235 blacks and 158 Hispanics were killed by cops. More whites are killed every year and the media doesn’t report that but they report every black killed. The media seems to want a race war because they magnify one race that’s getting killed by cops. These cops deserve to be punished harshly in this latest case but burning down building isn’t the answer.

(05-29-2020, 05:38 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: This last case was murder but in 2019 370 whites, 235 blacks and 158 Hispanics were killed by cops. More whites are killed every year and the media doesn’t report that but they report every black killed. The media seems to want a race war because they magnify one race that’s getting killed by cops. These cops deserve to be punished harshly in this latest case but burning down building isn’t the answer.

(05-30-2020, 05:31 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: It doesn't matter at all that black people resist more than white people. That statement ignores the history of police violence towards black people and it is the policeman's job to break that cycle, not the black people.

We live in a world where a cop can claim that he was scared and feared for his life as a reason to killing an unarmed person and then that same unarmed person is told (or rather, people who are outraged at his death are told) that if they just followed the rules and didn't resist arrest/panic, they'd still be alive.

We're literally victim blaming victims of police brutality and then wondering why people are pissed off at the police right now.

Police are paid and trained to de-escalate situations. It is not the job of the victims of police brutality to de-escalate the situation. The victims are unarmed, untrained and scared. It should be expected that they act irrationally when a gun (or taser, or whatever) is being waved in their face. 

(05-30-2020, 07:09 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Wasn't this the claim of the arresting officers, that he was resisting arrest?  Even though every witness and the body cam footage said he was not?  What you posted is exactly a part of the problem.  The disproportionate cases of resistance are because that is often what the guy is arrested for when the charges are false.  Why are so many black arrests filmed now?  One reason is brutality, the other is because the officer arrests a black guy who didn't do a damn thing with a claim that he resisted arrest, and the witnesses then show the video to prove the truth.

(05-31-2020, 01:59 AM)Whatever Wrote: Police have a history of violence towards blacks.  Blacks have a history of violence towards police.  It's the responsibility of both to break the cycle, because both parties are going to point at each other with the "They started it" rhetoric.  

What's the solution, then?  Should suspects just be allowed to resist as much as they want because they're scared?  Should cops just be able shoot first and ask questions later because they're scared?  

It's all of our responsibilities as citizens to not commit crimes.  If people didn't commit crimes, the cops wouldn't need to arrest them.  If the cops didn't need to arrest them, then people wouldn't be resisting arrest.  If people weren't resisting arrest, then there'd be no excessive force.  Maybe the solution is we all take responsibility for ourselves as individuals and quit blaming groups?

(05-31-2020, 02:48 AM)Whatever Wrote: I used to work with a former gang member who had gotten out of prison for dealing crack and was trying to lead an honest life for his daughter.  I won't use his language, but what he told me was that if a black man gets arrested and says he didn't do anything, he's lying.  He did something.  And that's coming from a black man.  My sister was also a cop and would say the same thing.  Obviously, I don't believe no innocent black man ever gets arrested, but it's extremely rare that any person of any race just gets arrested for no reason.  I also don't think it's a coincidence that all my black and Hispanic friends who work ordinary jobs, live ordinary lives, and maybe the worst thing they do is speed, jaywalk, or litter have never been arrested in their entire lives.

Store employees called the cops on Floyd because he was intoxicated in public and tried pass a counterfeit bill.  He was not taken into custody for nothing.  

In today's day and age, anything that's remotely interesting gets recorded on cell phones.  Everyone is looking for a quick buck off a viral video.  

Floyd is certainly a case where excessive force is used without any real justification.  However, cases like this are an exception, thankfully, not the rule.

(05-31-2020, 11:57 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: As far as not committing crimes, fine. But you have to understand the circumstances of these cases. George Floyd may have been "resisting arrest" (although even that is uncertain) but the matter of whether or not he committed a crime is still very much up for debate. As far as we know now, he was arrested because he was accused of trying to pass a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. But...maybe he got that from one of his friends or another transaction and he was not aware it was counterfeit. Having counterfeit money does not mean you made it or even knowingly have counterfeit money. But no, they immediately went to handcuffing and suffocating him. Why? 

(05-31-2020, 12:20 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good point. Didn’t even think about this possibility. I’m not even sure I would realize if I had received counterfeit money because I rarely even look at it that closely.

(05-31-2020, 11:57 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The ones with authority and power should be the ones to break the cycle. I don't think that's a controversial statement.

The black people are more likely to resist arrest because they fear they are going to be murdered by the police, which is backed by historical data. The police are the ones in control of the situation. It is their job to stop murdering black people.

Once they stop murdering black people, black people will be less likely to resist arrest and the cycle will  be broken.

If black people attempt to break the cycle by not resisting arrest and then just get murdered anyway, that does not break the cycle.

It is the police's job to keep a level head, not the victim of their brutality.

As far as not committing crimes, fine. But you have to understand the circumstances of these cases. George Floyd may have been "resisting arrest" (although even that is uncertain) but the matter of whether or not he committed a crime is still very much up for debate. As far as we know now, he was arrested because he was accused of trying to pass a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. But...maybe he got that from one of his friends or another transaction and he was not aware it was counterfeit. Having counterfeit money does not mean you made it or even knowingly have counterfeit money. But no, they immediately went to handcuffing and suffocating him. Why? 

The same goes for a variety of the other shootings that have made the news. Philando Castile did literally nothing wrong and was murdered for exercising his 2nd amendment rights. Breonna Taylor was killed by the police because they broke into her house erroneously.

I'm urging you to stop victim blaming. Hold accountable those that deserve to be held accountable. Not the victims of police brutality.

(05-31-2020, 02:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: Police Officers are also much more likely to murdered by African American suspects.  That's also a historical fact that you don't seem willing to acknowledge.  

(05-31-2020, 12:04 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I didn't say Floyd should not have been under arrest, nor am I saying that all African American arrests are unjustified.  I said all witnesses and evidence shows he was not resisting arrest.  Resisting arrest is what the arresting officers claimed was the reason for the unjustified force, as is often the case.  It is also the reason for a ton of trumped up charges.  I have two family members who were cops, and have been friends with several over the years.  Listening to them tell stories of being on the force reveals some of the systemic problem of police discrimination.  It is the very reason one friend left the force and became a teacher.  I have also had a number of close friends over the years who are African American and have witnessed the double standard first hand myself on many occasions.  Ever driven someone home from work, and on the way been stopped and interrogated for your reason to be in a suburban neighborhood?  No speeding, no swerving, only stopped because the guy in the passenger seat is black.  Therefore we must be running drugs, we can't be telling the truth, so we have to be frisked and submit to a search of the car.  Otherwise, we face charges of interfering in police business and resisting arrest.  That's just one example.  White people don't spend much time teaching their kids what to do and how to act if they are stopped by the police.  The reason is because they generally don't have to.  Unless they are in the company of minorities, they are generally treated with respect and their rights are observed.  Minorities, on the other hand, have to teach their kids to remain calm and subdued, because their reactions could easily lead to their incarceration, injury, or death. 

(05-31-2020, 04:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: Is every charge of resisting arrest justified?  No.  Does the fact that every charge of resisting arrest isn't warranted mean that no charge of resisting arrest is warranted?  No.  Let's look at the statistics from SF that I posted earlier.  African Americans accounted for 6% of the population, but 45% of resisting arrest charges in misdemeanor cases.  In order for the resisting arrest rate for African Americans to be in line with their population, only 13% of those cases could be legitimate.  The other 87% were just made up.  Does anybody really believe that only one in ten cases of resisting arrest involving African American suspects is legitimate?  I hope not.  Even if half of those cases are made up BS, their rate of resisting arrest is still almost four times their population percentage.

(05-31-2020, 04:53 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Hey, can someone tell me what white dudes like me are supposed to do to remedy this situation? I’m not really sure what the end goal even is... I understand that there IS an issue, but I don’t understand what I can do to help... I’m not trying to be snarky, I just literally have 0 clue what I’m supposed to do to help because as an average citizen I have 0 power to help the situation.

Are we asking for more swift action against the scumbag cop? Behead him in public? Tar and feather him in front of a crowd?

Do we need to eliminate white cops from existence and leave policing to everyone else? At least then we could make a judgement on if it’s racially charged or just circumstantial.

I’m struggling to know what we can tangibly do to help here. There are no laws I can vote on and no actions I can personally take to help is how I feel... There will always be evil souls out there doing evil things, and I’m just confused on how me myself can help. Does anyone have an answer to this? I’m really struggling over here trying to find how I can make a positive impact other than tweets like Joe.... which are debate-ably unimpactful anyways..