(06-13-2023, 03:20 PM)Lucidus Wrote: What is it about drag queen story hours that you find detrimental to a child? 

(06-13-2023, 03:49 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Well stated. 

To simply state that something exists or occurs on both sides is rather disingenuous unless it's also acknowledged - when demonstrable - that the frequency and severity is far more prevalent on one side. 

If two houses have grease fires in the kitchen, but one also has a gas leak, it's logically justified to call extra attention to the one that is more immediately combustible and dangerous. Saying that both houses have grease fires, and are therefore comparable situations, is ignoring the reality of the gas leak and the consequences that could follow.

(06-13-2023, 04:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It can be well stated all day and still not be germane to what is being discussed.  If it's not germane then it's obfuscation.  No one is surprised or puzzled by why you and Dill would want to ascribe more weight to right wing extremism than left wing.  But it doesn't preclude my position from being true, which is why the apparent refusal to address it lends itself to a suspicion of avoidance.  If we were discussing Germany, for example, we could use the "Hammer Gang" as an excellent example of left wing violence.  But we're discussing the US, so it's not germane.  By the same token if we're discussing speech suppression and violence on college campuses any examples of extremism, right or left, not occurring on college campuses are not relevent to the discussion.

(06-13-2023, 04:29 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I was addressing a specific subject matter within his overall response to you, not the precise details of the discussion you two are having; that subject matter being the general idea of demons on both sides when it comes to the left and right, and how they don't seem comparable in their totality. 

(06-13-2023, 05:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: OK, I can dig it.  My bad for the misunderstanding.

Quote:Girl, 9, accused of being trans at Kelowna track meet



Two Kelowna moms are speaking out after their 9-year-old daughter was verbally assaulted at a track and field event on Thursday at Kelowna's Apple Bowl.

The mothers, who choose not to identify their daughter, say she was competing in a shot-put event when a grandfather of one of the other participants started yelling at her.

"She went to step up to compete for the grade four shot-put final, and right before she went to throw, a grandfather of a student said, 'Hey, this is supposed to be a girls' event, and why are you letting boys compete.' My daughter is cisgender, born female, uses she/her pronouns. She has a pixie haircut," said mom Heidi Starr.

Starr says the man then carried on to demand certification to prove that her daughter was born female.

"He stopped the entire event. He also pointed at another girl who also had short hair. He then piped in and said, 'Well, if she is not a boy, then she is obviously trans.'"

Starr said the man's wife then started calling her "a genital mutilator, a groomer, and a pedophile."

Central Okanagan School District superintendent Kevin Kaardal confirmed with Castanet that steps are being taken to ban the man from all school-related events.

"Staff intervened and actually moved the shot-put away from where he was. The gentleman was not a part of our school district. We are taking steps to ensure he is not able to be on our school property or attend events in the future."

Kaardal said the incident was "totally unacceptable."

"Adults need to govern themselves and behave appropriately," he added.

Kari Starr, the girl's other mother, says Thursday's events have rocked their daughter's confidence.

"This has destroyed our beautiful daughter's confidence, and she was inconsolably crying during this whole event and continued once it was over and we were leaving. Not to mention, she was unable to concentrate on her track and field finals and the shot-put throw for which she had qualified," Kari said.

The parents posted a photo and identity of the man on local Facebook groups, but Castanet is not publishing that information because the man's identity has not been confirmed by the school district.

(06-13-2023, 08:03 PM)pally Wrote: This is what trans hate comes to...a girl doesn't look "girly" enough or performs better than her competition and out come accusations.  And this kind of crap will be happening more and more as the political rhetoric continues to raise the temperature


https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/431500/Girl-9-accused-of-being-trans-at-Kelowna-track-meet

(06-13-2023, 08:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Or, an alternative way of looking at the same incident is that this is a result of letting biological males compete against women in sports.  Note I am not excusing this action either way, going after a child is repulsive regardless of whether they are trans or not.  

(06-13-2023, 09:36 PM)pally Wrote: Actually, I agree there needs to be some regulation in sports.  I just think I needs to be left up to the sporting federations not to governments to do so.

Quote:And kids, especially pre-pubescent ones should be left alone when competing.

(06-13-2023, 03:34 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dill WroteI'm traveling this month, so it's not easy to respond to posts on time.
I thought the  issue was which side has "demons," or "more demons," per C-Dawgs post.

No, that hasn't been the topic at hand for several posts.  We've been discussing suppression of speech and violence on college campuses. 

[b]Quote:So when I responded I wasn't thinking of right/left wing protests so much as the concept of "canceling." It's often represented as some kind of "left" phenomenon, but I think shaming someone on twitter is not as serious as denying someone jobs or firing someone--the kind of thing that often is not covered in MSM media. If one can distinguish between "radical leftists" of right wing media fame and actual leftists, I think the case can be made they are subject to greater harassment than a few very prominent right wing provocateurs. The way to determine that would not be to follow emotional or trendy news coverage, but by working through the bean counting of sites like Georgetown's Free Speech Tracker, which I linked above.

Again, you're veering significantly off topic.  We are discussing the suppression of speech and violence on college campuses.  We are not discussing Twitter posts.

(06-13-2023, 03:34 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quote:In any case, when assessing "demons," I'm not interested in lining up tit for tat "both sides do it."  At this conjuncture, what people ought to be recognizing is that one side's demons are the greater threat to civil peace and democracy--i.e., millions of Americans groomed to support a violence-inciting autocrat for president. The first ex president to face criminal charges--and the majority of one party separate his actions from their consequences to the degree they are alienated en masse from their own government. At the moment I do not see a more serious problem than that in our domestic politics. "Confronting extreme bullshit" on both sides just obscures this problem, delays recognition and so solution.

Once again you're changing the subject.  It would be totally acceptable for you to admit the obvious, that the left is far more censorious on college campuses and more prone to violence in that setting without conceding that the left has "more demons" or is more violent in general.  Your apparent refusal to stick to the subject at hand makes you look like you're avoiding it because you believe the results of that discussion won't be in your favor.  That may not be the case, but you're certainly radiating that appearance.

(06-14-2023, 11:36 AM)Dill Wrote: Er, I WAS discussing the suppression of speech and violence on college campuses. That's why I quoted your post and bolded " How many left wing speakers have been attacked or prevented from speaking at college campuses? " You appear to have shifted the topic to "protests", which is not quite the same as "suppression of speech and violence." I mentioned "demons" to retrace our steps, how the discussion evolved. That's what we're still talking about.

Quote:The mention of twitter doesn't go "significantly off topic." It's just to contrast consequences. Being fired or not hired--on campus--because of political views is  much more effective suppression of speech than a shaming tweet. The topic is still "demons" who suppress speech on campus.  If I mention that a U.S. History teacher was not re-hired (along with many others) thanks to DeSantis' "reform" of Florida higher ed, I have not changed the subject from suppression of speech to U.S. History. 

Quote:Once again, I was responding to your "ultimate point": The ultimate point is, and what many people here are desperate to avoid confronting, is there is extreme bullshit going on on both ends of the ideological spectrum today.  The only difference of substance is that one side is constantly excused by the mainstream and the other side is consistently demonized, see "domestic terrorist" parents at school board meetings again.  

Quote:Were you "changing the subject" when you referred to "extreme bullshit going on at both ends of the political spectrum" which people are supposedly "desperate to avoid confronting"? Didn't sound like "bullshit" was confined to campus, especially when you reference school board meetings. 

Quote:That's why I told you that tit for tat just obscures the larger picture and the greater threat. E.g., Republican Senators are now threatening to hold up confirmations because their Dear Leader has been indicted. Over 40% of the electorate think that indictment is politically motivated, not something Trump called down upon himself by breaking the law. They think he's above the law and people holding him accountable are the problem. That's why I'm "desperate to avoid confronting" a few scattered protests on some campus which dissipated as soon as Coulter or Yianapoulos or Shapiro left. 

Quote:And I'm not "admitting the obvious" about suppression of speech on campus while Republicans are actually "reforming" higher ed by cutting whole programs and the people who teach them. 

Quote:Finally, you've not avoided the Youtube problem by searching for protests on what you call "far left" news sites. That's not how you construct a data set on free speech suppression or protests or whatever, especially in the age of news algorithms.

Quote:Driving across South Dakota right now, so I'll have to sort this out this evening.

(06-14-2023, 02:30 PM)BengalYankee Wrote:

(06-13-2023, 04:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It can be well stated all day and still not be germane to what is being discussed.  If it's not germane then it's obfuscation.  No one is surprised or puzzled by why you and Dill would want to ascribe more weight to right wing extremism than left wing.  But it doesn't preclude my position from being true, which is why the apparent refusal to address it lends itself to a suspicion of avoidance.  If we were discussing Germany, for example, we could use the "Hammer Gang" as an excellent example of left wing violence.  But we're discussing the US, so it's not germane.  By the same token if we're discussing speech suppression and violence on college campuses any examples of extremism, right or left, not occurring on college campuses are not relevent to the discussion.

(06-14-2023, 06:56 PM)Leon Wrote: you are wasting your time talking to him. he thinks he knows everything and is to blind to see that he doesnt really know anything.

him lucifer, and the other guy you were replying to dill, and also bellnickle always use lots of words and fancy talk but never really say anything of value. to me those 3 are the poster childs for why the left is were its at. the left want to talk smart, look down there noses and pretend they are better than us. 

what the left dont know is folks on the right are grounded and humble and real. we dont need to pretend or act superior. we jusy love our God and our families and our country. thats where real knowlege comes from. 

(06-14-2023, 08:06 PM)BengalYankee Wrote:

(06-14-2023, 06:56 PM)Leon Wrote: you are wasting your time talking to him. he thinks he knows everything and is to blind to see that he doesnt really know anything.

him lucifer, and the other guy you were replying to dill, and also bellnickle always use lots of words and fancy talk but never really say anything of value. to me those 3 are the poster childs for why the left is were its at. the left want to talk smart, look down there noses and pretend they are better than us. 

what the left dont know is folks on the right are grounded and humble and real. we dont need to pretend or act superior. we jusy love our God and our families and our country. thats where real knowlege comes from. 

(06-14-2023, 06:56 PM)Leon Wrote: you are wasting your time talking to him. he thinks he knows everything and is to blind to see that he doesnt really know anything.

him lucifer, and the other guy you were replying to dill, and also bellnickle always use lots of words and fancy talk but never really say anything of value. to me those 3 are the poster childs for why the left is were its at. the left want to talk smart, look down there noses and pretend they are better than us. 

(06-14-2023, 08:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm going to disagree with you on Bellsnickle, Matt often offers fantastic insight into areas of the inner workings of government and policy that I really don't feel like spending the time to educate myself on.  I don't always agree with his opinions, but I damn sure know that he does know what he's talking about.  Stick around a while, and you might learn something..