+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+--- Thread: House Speaker Ongoing Melodrama (/Thread-House-Speaker-Ongoing-Melodrama)
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 10:40 AM)Nately120 Wrote: As I've said before, I"m a bit surprised democrats didn't just support McCarthy for fear of the GOP putting someone worse into power. Democrats have been criticized as being a bit spineless and we're talking about a political party that has completely softened on Bush and Liz Cheney and considered Charlie Crist a legitimate democratic candidate for governor in FL simply because the MAGA folks don't think they're dedicated enough to the cause, so to speak.
For good or ill, I'm surprised democrats in the house didn't just say "Well, McCarthy kisses Trump's ass and won't work with us, but if we don't support him the next guy will probably kiss Trump's ass even harder and extra not work with us...so I guess we support Kevin after all."
They still have time to lie down and let the GOP walk all over them, er...I mean compromise.
Careful, you're going to be accused of becoming a conservative and solely blaming the Dems making nuanced points like this.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Belsnickel - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 10:40 AM)Nately120 Wrote: As I've said before, I"m a bit surprised democrats didn't just support McCarthy for fear of the GOP putting someone worse into power. Democrats have been criticized as being a bit spineless and we're talking about a political party that has completely softened on Bush and Liz Cheney and considered Charlie Crist a legitimate democratic candidate for governor in FL simply because the MAGA folks don't think they're dedicated enough to the cause, so to speak.
For good or ill, I'm surprised democrats in the house didn't just say "Well, McCarthy kisses Trump's ass and won't work with us, but if we don't support him the next guy will probably kiss Trump's ass even harder and extra not work with us...so I guess we support Kevin after all."
They still have time to lie down and let the GOP walk all over them, er...I mean compromise.
I think the calculus they are after is to let the GOP shit the bed and then point it out in 2024. The problem with this tactic is that most voters will forget this even happened by the time that year passes by.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Nately120 - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 11:14 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Careful, you're going to be accused of becoming a conservative and solely blaming the Dems making nuanced points like this.
My viewpoint is that the real craptastic aspect of this whole thing is the idea that an actual centrist candidate getting support from a decent chunk of both parties and becoming speaker is harder to imagine than the house itself turning into a literal warzone.
The only thing I'd actually check to make sure that it wasn't fake news is the above. Anything from members opening fire on each other to the house itself being burned to ashes to Kid Rock being named the speaker would fall right into my "Yeah, that probably happened" zone.
(10-16-2023, 11:32 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think the calculus they are after is to let the GOP shit the bed and then point it out in 2024. The problem with this tactic is that most voters will forget this even happened by the time that year passes by.
True, but then savvy political opportunists would let everyone know that house democrats supported Donald Trump's pick for the speaker of the house and the 3rd in line for the presidency. How did all the republicans who voted for Nancy Pelosi do in their primaries?
But seriously, if elected democrats vote for a guy who kisses Trump's ass that should legitimately dissuade enough unlikely voters to show up in 2024 to swing things right back to the 2016 EC map anyways, right? You voted for democrats and they picked Trump's pal...here is a picture of them together at Mar A Lago...so, feel like standing in line for 3 hours to vote? I didn't think so.
I will admit I don't legitimately know the answer to this but is Kevin McCarthy THE most centrist republican in the house? Could democrats be given a more reasonable republican to support, or is he the one?
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - GMDino - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 11:32 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think the calculus they are after is to let the GOP shit the bed and then point it out in 2024. The problem with this tactic is that most voters will forget this even happened by the time that year passes by.
Possibly, but also its possible this won't be the last thing the gop shits the bed on before 2024. There will be lots to pick from vs the Democrats helping them fill the seat.
I will admit that if the Democrats had voted to keep McCarthy the temper tantrum Gaetz, et al would have thrown would have been must see tv.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Belsnickel - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 11:36 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I will admit I don't legitimately know the answer to this but is Kevin McCarthy THE most centrist republican in the house? Could democrats be given a more reasonable republican to support, or is he the one?
No, he isn't. In fact, McCarthy is pretty far to the right. The difference between him and the "Freedom" caucus folks is that he understands the institutions better.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Nately120 - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 11:47 AM)GMDino Wrote: Possibly, but also its possible this won't be the last thing the gop shits the bed on before 2024. There will be lots to pick from vs the Democrats helping them fill the seat.
I will admit that if the Democrats had voted to keep McCarthy the temper tantrum Gaetz, et al would have thrown would have been must see tv.
Would Gaetz still have the power to call a vote to oust McCarthy again? Could he do it enough times that McCarthy, Trump's pick for speaker, ends up getting thousands of votes from democrats? Stuff like that could keep enough maybe anti-Trump votes at home sick in 2024 and get the TRUMP RETRIBUTION TOUR right on track. EDIT - numbers wise that doesn't make sense but narrative wise people would listen to it.
That's my 2 cents. Disenfranchising voters is the bread and/or butter of the GOP platform and they'd have a compelling narrative to spin with more than usual amounts of evidence to back it up this time.
(10-16-2023, 11:56 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: No, he isn't. In fact, McCarthy is pretty far to the right. The difference between him and the "Freedom" caucus folks is that he understands the institutions better.
Ok, so critics are expecting democrats to support a pretty far right guy? Seems like the GOP could at least find someone left of McCarthy if they want to rake democrats over the coals for fudging up our lovely House. Democrats voting for a pretty far right republican? Well, I'm still surprised they didn't just do it and try to dupe themselves into thinking voters would reward them for compromising .
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Belsnickel - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 11:56 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Would Gaetz still have the power to call a vote to oust McCarthy again? Could he do it enough times that McCarthy, Trump's pick for speaker, ends up getting thousands of votes from democrats? Stuff like that could keep enough maybe anti-Trump votes at home sick in 2024 and get the TRUMP RETRIBUTION TOUR right on track.
Depends. That's just a rule change that could be made with enough support.
(10-16-2023, 11:56 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok, so critics are expecting democrats to support a pretty far right guy? Seems like the GOP could at least find someone left of McCarthy if they want to rake democrats over the coals for fudging up our lovely House.
You're talking about making sense. That's not how politics works in this country.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Nately120 - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 12:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You're talking about making sense. That's not how politics works in this country.
And that's why I'm legitimately surprised democrats didn't just lie down and let Trump's laptop hump them until he got tired of it. They seem like they'd give in and hope that voters would appreciate it, while most voters would say "What's a house speaker? All we know is that you guys agree with Trump and we're staying home."
And just to make sure I'm getting all this...McCarthy is a pretty far right guy that democrats would have had to vote to keep as speaker and THEN vote to give him more protections than his own party afforded him to keep the fringe GOP from just having him removed AGAIN?
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Belsnickel - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 12:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: And just to make sure I'm getting all this...McCarthy is a pretty far right guy that democrats would have had to vote to keep as speaker and THEN vote to give him more protections than his own party afforded him to keep the fringe GOP from just having him removed AGAIN?
Correct.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Nately120 - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 12:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Correct.
I can't even come up with a semi-funny or semi-cogent reply to this.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Belsnickel - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 12:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can't even come up with a semi-funny or semi-cogent reply to this.
This is why there were a number of political scientists that were tasked with fixing Congress and they were dismissed early because lawmakers had zero interest in doing anything that would actually make them do their jobs.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 11:32 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think the calculus they are after is to let the GOP shit the bed and then point it out in 2024. The problem with this tactic is that most voters will forget this even happened by the time that year passes by.
The other problem with this tactic is the damage incurred in the interim. As I've stated in this thread, this move would not have been possible without nearly every single Dem vote. Does this mean the Dems are solely responsible for the dysfunction within the GOP (a question only asked for the most gestalt thinkers among us)? Absolutely not. But it does mean they must shoulder at least some of responsibility for what follows.
(10-16-2023, 11:36 AM)Nately120 Wrote: My viewpoint is that the real craptastic aspect of this whole thing is the idea that an actual centrist candidate getting support from a decent chunk of both parties and becoming speaker is harder to imagine than the house itself turning into a literal warzone.
The only thing I'd actually check to make sure that it wasn't fake news is the above. Anything from members opening fire on each other to the house itself being burned to ashes to Kid Rock being named the speaker would fall right into my "Yeah, that probably happened" zone.
Those days are well behind us, my friend, if they ever existed at all. Ideological purity is the current litmus test, not an ability to effectively lead or focus a caucus. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 12:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is why there were a number of political scientists that were tasked with fixing Congress and they were dismissed early because lawmakers had zero interest in doing anything that would actually make them do their jobs.
Fixing it, in theory, is simple. Focus on the long term best interests of the nation. But, in the end, very few in Congress have that as their goal. For most it's the simplest equation for those in power, find a way to stay in power. All other considerations are a distant second.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - pally - 10-16-2023
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4258213-house-speaker-jim-jordan-votes-live-coverage/#93487
Quote:At least five Republicans say they do not plan to support Jordan on the first ballot Tuesday: Reps. Carlos Gimenez (R-Fla.), Don Bacon (R-Neb.), Ken Buck (R-Colo.), Mario Diaz-Balart (R-Fla.) and Mike Lawler (R-N.Y.).
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - Nately120 - 10-17-2023
Looks like round 1 of the vote is a bust for Jordan.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - CKwi88 - 10-17-2023
(10-17-2023, 02:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Looks like round 1 of the vote is a bust for Jordan.
Wonder how much of the "Other" votes are hard votes or just posturing until the second vote.
And as an aside, I'm a government employee myself and I'm jealous of this workday these folks are having. I'd do this for around $688 a day.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - pally - 10-17-2023
(10-17-2023, 02:53 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Wonder how much of the "Other" votes are hard votes or just posturing until the second vote.
And as an aside, I'm a government employee myself and I'm jealous of this workday these folks are having. I'd do this for around $688 a day.
they thought there would be far less than 20 voting against Jordan.
The House has gone into recess. So whether or not there will be another vote today or with Jim Jordan as the candidate, no one knows
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - CKwi88 - 10-17-2023
(10-17-2023, 02:59 PM)pally Wrote: they thought there would be far less than 20 voting against Jordan.
The House has gone into recess. So whether or not there will be another vote today or with Jim Jordan as the candidate, no one knows
Yeah the reports were making it sound like while it wasn't a slam dunk, it wasn't supposed to be this bad.
Time to start funneling in the circus music.
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - GMDino - 10-17-2023
— Critter (@asclepiasyriaca) October 17, 2023<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
RE: Vote to oust McCarthy set for Tues - pally - 10-17-2023
Rep Ken Buck is saying he believes there will be even more no votes if subsequent votes. People who reluctantly voted yes in round 1 are one and done. The message we tried to push him through it didn't work, its time to move on to a better candidate