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Brexit Officially Starts - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Brexit Officially Starts (/Thread-Brexit-Officially-Starts) |
Brexit Officially Starts - TheLeonardLeap - 03-29-2017 http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-historic-break-britain-gives-formal-notice-to-leave-eu/ar-BByZRIP?OCID=ansmsnnews11 Quote:LONDON — A little over nine months after British voters chose to withdraw from the European Union, Britain took a decisive — and likely irreversible — step Wednesday toward leaving a partnership that has bound the country to the continent for nearly half a century. I understand working together for greater benefit, but I never understood how unelected officials from another country deciding how your country should be ran was ever a good idea. I think when people see the UK not explode into a Mad Max-style apocalypse, and more terrorist attacks happen in the EU, more countries will be filing out. I think France and Poland have both made mentions about it, right? RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Belsnickel - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-historic-break-britain-gives-formal-notice-to-leave-eu/ar-BByZRIP?OCID=ansmsnnews11 Um, how is it unelected officials? The European Council is made up of the heads of state of the member nations, the Council of the EU is made up of appointees from the member state governments (so indirectly democratic), and the EUP is directly elected by the people. It's actually very similar to the way our legislative system was originally set up with one chamber appointed by the states and the other directly elected. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - TheLeonardLeap - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Um, how is it unelected officials? The European Council is made up of the heads of state of the member nations, the Council of the EU is made up of appointees from the member state governments (so indirectly democratic), and the EUP is directly elected by the people. It's actually very similar to the way our legislative system was originally set up with one chamber appointed by the states and the other directly elected. Indirectly democratic is the same as not democratic. I don't even like the fact that the FCC, Chairman of the Federal Reserve, and such are unelected. People just being put into that much power is almost never a good thing. Can you name me the leadership of the FCC? They decide what you can and can't do/have done to you when it comes to TV, Radio, and Internet. Granted I also just don't like large government very much. Local people know their local needs/wants/issues more than anyone else. Do you think there'd be a waste-of-$1.5T dollar fighter jet program if the States had anything to say about it? States are required to have a Balanced Budget Amendment in their Constitution. The Federal Constitution is not. Just saying. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Benton - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-historic-break-britain-gives-formal-notice-to-leave-eu/ar-BByZRIP?OCID=ansmsnnews11 The concept isn't too different from the U.S. Multiple states with very different circumstances together with some general guidelines that are supposed to benefit everyone, some general laws that benefit everyone and a common currency that makes it easier to do business and travel. Of course, the U.S. has steadily moved away from that to where the central government (federal) is much stronger than the EU council. And the arguments it creates aren't that much different than what having a central government here has done to states feeling they should have more say. Take the education debate. Several states want to do away with the federal department of education because it conflicts with personal beliefs. Like the great state of Kentucky where it's still state law that Biblical creation is supposed to be taught in classrooms alongside the "theory of change over time" (not evolution, because lawmakers here don't believe in it. Or Alabama, where it's state law that stickers are put over biology concepts that lawmakers (none of which I'm betting has a science degree) disagree with. Personally, I'm happy England is pulling out. It's an insanely dumb move for their economy and country, and the EU, which helps the U.S. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Belsnickel - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Indirectly democratic is the same as not democratic. I don't even like the fact that the FCC, Chairman of the Federal Reserve, and such are unelected. People just being put into that much power is almost never a good thing. Did you miss the part about the the European Parliament being directly elected? Do you realize that the Presidency is indirectly democratic in this country? RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Benton - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Indirectly democratic is the same as not democratic. I don't even like the fact that the FCC, Chairman of the Federal Reserve, and such are unelected. People just being put into that much power is almost never a good thing. The general public recommending the leadership of the FCC, Fed and other positions requiring a high degree of specialized knowledge makes as much sense as choosing your cardiologist by walking through the mall and taking a poll. You're going to get a couple qualified names that are top of mind, and a lot of people who are going to kill you. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - TheLeonardLeap - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:46 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Did you miss the part about the the European Parliament being directly elected? Do you realize that the Presidency is indirectly democratic in this country? No, didn't miss it, but I guess it's more I view the EU as... I don't want California and Washington to decide what is legal or not in Ohio, but on a larger scale. Just doesn't feel right. The President has never been not elected by the Electoral College, and the Electoral College for a State has never chosen a President their State didn't vote for. It's not really indirect, it's just in a manner that one State feeling REALLY strongly about something doesn't wipe out the opinion of multiple other States. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - TheLeonardLeap - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:48 PM)Benton Wrote: The general public recommending the leadership of the FCC, Fed and other positions requiring a high degree of specialized knowledge makes as much sense as choosing your cardiologist by walking through the mall and taking a poll. You're going to get a couple qualified names that are top of mind, and a lot of people who are going to kill you. Perhaps a bit of a point there, but at the very least there could be some kind of like.. quarterly/bi-yearly/yearly survey style votes on what people want to happen with the FCC rather than an appointed person deciding for you everything you get to see/hear/etc. Granted, I am also just kind of pissed off about the recent decision by the House/Senate/Trump to do away with the scant rights protections that people have for their data. Used to be (as least technically) ISPs weren't allowed to sell your internet data (browsing history, searches, social media stuff, etc) without your consent. Even that bit of paper-thin protection is gone now. Now VPNs are going to pretty much become a requirement if you don't want 5,000 ads targeted to every facet of your life pounding down on you. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Belsnickel - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No, didn't miss it, but I guess it's more I view the EU as... I don't want California and Washington to decide what is legal or not in Ohio, but on a larger scale. Just doesn't feel right. But that's not how it works. The EU's authority is much like our federal government's, in that it has authority over issues that impact the whole EU. This includes borderless issues like environmental impact (because pollution doesn't stop at a state/country line) as well. Member states still have authority over their internal matters. (03-29-2017, 05:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The President has never been not elected by the Electoral College, and the Electoral College for a State has never chosen a President their State didn't vote for. It's not really indirect, it's just in a manner that one State feeling REALLY strongly about something doesn't wipe out the opinion of multiple other States. That's still indirect. Were the presidency directly democratic, then it would be a straight popular vote. Because we vote for electors who then cast a vote for President, and because they can cast a vote for whomever they choose, that is not a directly democratic system. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Belsnickel - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Perhaps a bit of a point there, but at the very least there could be some kind of like.. quarterly/bi-yearly/yearly survey style votes on what people want to happen with the FCC rather than an appointed person deciding for you everything you get to see/hear/etc. I am telling myself not to post a very long post about how we have our presidential system of government to thank for the lack of accountability for things like the FCC and how we need to look more at the traditional model of public administration and drive a bit more of a wedge between the policy makers and those that carry out the policy. Nope, not going to get into that rant, today. ![]() RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Fan_in_Kettering - 03-29-2017 Congratulations to the British for jumping into a waiting lifeboat and rowing away from the S.S. Greek Bailout. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Dill - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-historic-break-britain-gives-formal-notice-to-leave-eu/ar-BByZRIP?OCID=ansmsnnews11 Brexit was a coup for low-information voters worried about immigrants, like Trump's election. I predict that Scotland will want another referendum on the Union in the next year or so. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Benton - 03-29-2017 (03-29-2017, 05:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Perhaps a bit of a point there, but at the very least there could be some kind of like.. quarterly/bi-yearly/yearly survey style votes on what people want to happen with the FCC rather than an appointed person deciding for you everything you get to see/hear/etc. then vote for a different congress. That's not related to possibly putting someone grossly unqualified into a position of considerable power few people like the federal deserve. Its probably manipulated to the benefit of a few. But that's still better than a likeable auto parts dealer from Dayton with no experience steering currency suddenly being in charge of the economy. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - michaelsean - 03-30-2017 (03-29-2017, 11:36 PM)Benton Wrote: then vote for a different congress. That's not related to possibly putting someone grossly unqualified into a position of considerable power I think Pete the Parts guy would do a fine job. He gives me back my change without a cash register even telling him the amount. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - michaelsean - 03-30-2017 I try to think of the EU as the United States, but these are countries with a 1000 years of history. I get what the British are thinking. I really don't know enough to say if it will be good or bad for them in the long run, but I get it. RE: Brexit Officially Starts - Belsnickel - 03-30-2017 (03-30-2017, 09:47 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I try to think of the EU as the United States, but these are countries with a 1000 years of history. I get what the British are thinking. I really don't know enough to say if it will be good or bad for them in the long run, but I get it. Members states of the EU retain more autonomy than our states have, but I get what you're saying. I just always think it's funny what the UK did because they were bitching about all of this when they weren't really beholden to much of the EU oversight. They essentially got to tell other countries what to do in the EU without having to do it themselves because of the power they had. |