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With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule (/Thread-With-Ivanka-Trump%E2%80%99s-Blessing-White-House-Ditches-Equal-Pay-Rule) |
With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - GMDino - 09-02-2017 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ivanka-trump-white-house-equal-pay_us_59a6c33be4b063ae34da471f Quote:Days after issuing a bland statement supporting women’s equality, the Trump administration halted a key equal pay initiative on Tuesday put in place by the Obama administration. I was going to ask why conservatives never want actual data to make their decision but then I remembered that this same administration wants all of your voter registration information. ![]() RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - StLucieBengal - 09-02-2017 This was a massive waste anyway. Yet again another terrible plan from obama. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - Griever - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 12:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This was a massive waste anyway. yeah how dare we pay people the same amount of money not all women feel their own worth is being a stay at home mom RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - Benton - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 01:34 PM)Griever Wrote: yeah how dare we pay people the same amount of money I agree with the sentiment, but the regulation as I understand it didn't do anything to address inequalities. Maybe some employers would've seen the pay difference and done something, but many were just delegating that job to someone else anyway. Most likely an underpaid employee. Women get (typically) paid less. Let's fix that instead of adding more paperwork to business owners. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - GMDino - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 12:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This was a massive waste anyway. (09-02-2017, 01:45 PM)Benton Wrote: I agree with the sentiment, but the regulation as I understand it didn't do anything to address inequalities. Maybe some employers would've seen the pay difference and done something, but many were just delegating that job to someone else anyway. Most likely an underpaid employee. It's really just a payroll thing. We do censuses all the time for the insurance company, the workers comp, etc. Gathering data would be the first step to seeing if there is an actual problem and a possible fix. Data never hurts if you ask me. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - Matt_Crimson - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 01:45 PM)Benton Wrote: I agree with the sentiment, but the regulation as I understand it didn't do anything to address inequalities. Maybe some employers would've seen the pay difference and done something, but many were just delegating that job to someone else anyway. Most likely an underpaid employee. That's what I was thinking. If it addressed the issue and actually fixed it, that'd be great. But it's important to think of the implications of requiring companies to do stuff like this because it costs man hours, which in turn costs companies more money. That's not to say costing companies more money is the focus here but rather about whethet or not whar the companies are being requiered to do is an effective process. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - TheLeonardLeap - 09-02-2017 Calling it an "equal pay rule" is rather misleading, likely intentionally misleading. It didn't actually actively do anything towards it. It's really a "report how much you pay all your people so we can get statistics proposal". So they can hire a couple hundred people to parse through the data, and nothing will come from it other than more government spending and some high ranking government person being able to have a bigger metaphorical d*** to swing when their budget becomes bigger than someone else's from it. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - StLucieBengal - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 01:34 PM)Griever Wrote: yeah how dare we pay people the same amount of money The government collecting data does nothing to do with anyone's pay. It's just the government collecting information it doesn't need to know. Besides the pay gap is a myth. Women and men are paid the same when they have same exp and qualifications. The reason there is a change in pay is because women choose to leave the work force and have a family RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - StLucieBengal - 09-02-2017 Btw is there a pay gap considering now anyone. Can be a woman at any time? RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - GMDino - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 04:24 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Besides the pay gap is a myth. Women and men are paid the same when they have same exp and qualifications. The reason there is a change in pay is because women choose to leave the work force and have a family Is there a study with data to back that up and if so how did they go about collecting the information to reach that conclusion? Let's see if that makes sense next to the sentence: (09-02-2017, 04:24 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The government collecting data does nothing to do with anyone's pay. It's just the government collecting information it doesn't need to know. Because *I* would say that that is why we need the data: People just spout of whatever they believe with little to no facts to back it up. ![]() RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - StLucieBengal - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 06:21 PM)GMDino Wrote: Is there a study with data to back that up and if so how did they go about collecting the information to reach that conclusion? RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - GMDino - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 07:00 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Couple problems with that six minute ad for donations: 1) They cite studies but provide no evidence that that is what the studies said versus their interpretation. For example: I looked up the 2009 DOL wage gap study. There is a 2015 version and guess what? The wage gap is real and shrinking. But real. And that about 1/3 was due to different wages and occupations. 2) Prager "U" (lol) is listed a conservative alternative to "left" education. So...slanted. 3) When I say "equal pay for equal work" that is what I mean. I don't expect a woman who is waitress to make the same as a man who is a construction worker. I expect a woman and a man doing the same job to get the same wage if they do the same work the same way. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - TheLeonardLeap - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 07:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Couple problems with that six minute ad for donations: But they don't. That's the thing. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080204212846.htm Quote:Women take almost 50 percent more short term sick leave than men, finds research in Occupational and Environmental Medicine. But they don't take more long term sick leave, the findings show. Physical health problems, physical work demands, and work fatigue were more commonly reported by women. And they were 46% more likely than men to call in sick for short periods of a few days. Women may be better at recognizing problems and going to the doctor for treatment, suggest the researchers. There have been a lot of other studies that show women are more likely to take sick days and flexibility of hours for women are generally regarded as more important than pay, while men are the opposite and generally focus more on pay than hour flexibility. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.nr0.htm Quote: --On the days they worked, employed men worked 56 minutes more than Full-time worker vs full-time worker, men worked 36 minute longer days than women and women are 46% more likely to take a sick day. Even if you say a man and a woman are doing the same job with the same educational level, and have the same amount of job experience (which generally isn't the case because women more often end their working career earlier to start a family, while men continue on, thus leading to an experience disparity)... If you are going to give a raise to someone and you can choose the person working more and taking less time off, or the person working less and taking more time off, who are you going to choose? Exactly. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - StLucieBengal - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 07:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Couple problems with that six minute ad for donations: You asked for information. Should have known your prime move would be to just dismiss lol RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - Belsnickel - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 07:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: But they don't. That's the thing. Which, while true, doesn't refute his argument. (09-02-2017, 07:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.nr0.htm What troubles me about this is that it is incomplete data to make such an assessment. If women spend about a half-hour less per day working than men, okay, we have that measured. But what is their productivity? Are they completing the same work, more, less? How is their effectiveness and efficiency? If I have someone that spends an hour less working chained to their desk a day on average, but yet they produce the same number of widgets at the same level of quality (or higher in either case), guess who I give the raise to. I honestly don't know what the answer here is, but I know that based on the data presented it does not provide adequate evidence to refute the existence of a wage gap between men and women for equal work. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - Belsnickel - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 08:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You asked for information. Would you accept a propaganda piece from AAUW as a source for information on the subject? RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - Nebuchadnezzar - 09-02-2017 I think the wage gap will shrink to nonexistent as long as more and more men become "House Husbands" and "Stay at Home Dads". RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - StLucieBengal - 09-03-2017 (09-02-2017, 09:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Would you accept a propaganda piece from AAUW as a source for information on the subject? Whole lot of other sources listed on these as well. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - StLucieBengal - 09-03-2017 (09-02-2017, 11:50 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I think the wage gap will shrink to nonexistent as long as more and more men become "House Husbands" and "Stay at Home Dads". We have a fear our daughters will bring one of those home. RE: With Ivanka Trump’s Blessing, White House Ditches Equal Pay Rule - TheLeonardLeap - 09-03-2017 (09-02-2017, 09:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Which, while true, doesn't refute his argument. By definition, if someone is working less and taking more sick days, they're not doing the job "the same way", which is what his point was. How does that not refute it? You tell me where in the Obama proposal that got cancelled, it would measure every single worker's productivity, effectiveness, and efficiency in the country. Are we just going to employ half the country to just sit there and hover, watching the other half work for 6 months, grading everything they do? Then have that half of the country switch watch the other half? If you think there's not adequate evidence now, then you're simply never going to find it unless you just make everyone work under 24/7 constant surveillance, and grade them all. This program sure as hell wouldn't have given you that evidence, it'd just tell you how much people are getting paid. Heck, I never even saw where it said where it took into account how much overtime they work, or how long they've been doing the job. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - If taking less sick days, and working longer hours isn't enough proof for you (somehow)... then here's the final thing I can provide you. Families and job experience: Say you have 20 people working the exact same job, 10 men and 10 women, and we ignore the fact that the women would take more sick days and work less hours. In this scenario they all work the same amount, the same amount of sick days, and have the same productivity and everything. The job has 0 promotion opportunity, a starting salary of $50,000 and, fixed $2k pay raises each year. All the workers are hired at age 20, and any empty job spots will be replaced by a person of the same gender that left. They all work 5 years, all of their pay is up to $60,000/yr. Then 2 women retire to have a family. 2 new women are hired at the starting salary of $50,000. Average salary: Men, $60,000/yr Women, $58,000/yr Another 5 years pass, the original people are now making $70k/yr. One man leaves for another job. Two more women retire for families, and one leaves for another job. 1 man and 3 women are hired at the same $50,000 starting salary. Average salary: Men, $68,000/yr Women, $57,000/yr WOAH, salary different, despite them all doing the exact same work, same production, but when you average it out, the men are making 19.3% more than the women! Why? Because the men collectively have on average 9 years of experience, against the women's collective average of 6 years of experience. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Obviously the salaries and raises and all of that are made up for the sake of the example, but it's based in reality. https://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm As of 2014... 56.4% of males age 16-24 are in the workforce. The same category for women? 53.6%, a difference of +2.8% for men. 45.9% of males age 55 or older are in the workforce. The same category for women? 34.9%, a difference of +11% for men. People with more experience at a job, are generally going to get paid more. A doctor who's been working at a hospital for 30 years is going to make more than one who's been working there for 15. Then you add in the factors of women taking more sickdays and working less time to the fact that there are more experienced men in the workforce than women. 1. Take less time off. 2. Work more. 3. More experienced. If those three still don't convince you, you were never looking to, or allowing yourself to be convinced in the first place, regardless of proof or logic. |