(08-06-2015, 09:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is just not true at all.  You can't blame Dalton when the defense plays poorly.

(08-07-2015, 12:31 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: You can when the opposing offense gets excellent field position after yet another interception, or the odd fumble.  

When the defense gets backed into a corner against Playoff caliber offenses, bad things happen.  The defense deserves blame in the losses, but hasn't played terribly.  Rather, they just haven't been very good either.  Most alarming to is the failure to stop the run.  That being said, Andy has played like a bum in all four Playoff losses.  The losses aren't 100% on him.  However,  as QB, poor play by Andy exerts a greater negative influence on the game's outcome than any other position on the field.  That's the cold hard truth, and why Dalton catches more flak than anyone else.

(08-07-2015, 12:41 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I posted numbers and stats and what not and I realized that it does no good to attempt to debate the people who refuse to look beyond the mantra of "It's all bad!  WHo cares!"  We've had playoff games where the defense put more points on the board than the offense, but whatever, it's everyone's fault!

The fact is our offense is good for about 7.5 points per game in the playoffs so unless the Bengals find a way to play in the NFL in the 1950s they hain't gonna win.

(08-06-2015, 07:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Asked about Andy Dalton winning a playoff game.  Gruden said that dalton can be a good QB, but just has not played well in the playoffs.  Then said the main point he wanted to make was that the entire Bengal team had not played well in the playoffs.  Said that even though Dalton had not played well he was not the only problem.

(08-07-2015, 08:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I've also posted numbers plus the opinions of experts like Jon Gruden.  Why do you think that neutral analysts like Jon Gruden and other national media members would refuse to look at facts?

The people who want to blame Dalton for every aspect of the game including coaching, defense, running game, and pass protection are the ones who refuse to look at the truth. 

(08-07-2015, 09:37 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I think the issue for guys like myself and Nately is that we aren't allowed to discuss the issues with the offense (not just Andy) on this board without a million people telling us how it's the entire team's fault and that's that.

I have no problem saying that the entire team has sucked, but there is more to talk about than just that. I think the defense deserves their bashing for the 2011 and 2014 games and the offense absolutely deserves theirs for the other 2. IMO, the offense has sucked more than the defense if you look at all 4 games combined, but I'm called biased for saying that.

People claim the "Andy haters" can't be objective, but that's absurd. If I say the offense has sucked more than the defense, that doesn't mean I hate Andy Dalton, I'm just being realistic here.

Andy's biggest fans on here will bring up everything BUT the QB play if you discuss the playoff losses, yet we're the ones that aren't objective because we refuse to just give out equal blame even though it shouldn't be exactly equal? No, that's not how it's going to happen. It's not equal. I don't want to blame Dalton for everything, and I surely don't think it's Andy's fault when the defense has been bad or the coaching has been bad. In my opinion, blame goes something like Offense > Coaching = Defense > Special Teams, or Offense = Coaching > Defense > Special Teams. They've all sucked, but some parts have definitely sucked less.

(08-07-2015, 09:49 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't think you are close to an Andy hater so you do have good points and do analyze the whole situation.

Others simply refuse to even consider anything else, they are a small minority in the forum. Those are who I refer to when I say they lost all objectivity. I understand why they could feel that way as AD is very hard to trust, but even if the day comes I lose all trust in AD, I hope I still also look at everyone's performance versus just the QB.

As far as the others who have issues on offense in addition to AD in the playoffs, there are more who played worse than normal (regular season) than have played as well or better so why should that be ignored just because AD played poorly? I think it creates spirited debate and debate in this forum is what we do.

(08-07-2015, 09:53 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Honestly, I'm just glad that soon enough we can all start arguing about what's happening in the NFL currently instead of debating over what has happened over the last 4 years.

It feels like it's been an eternity since I've watched a live game, but we're almost there!

(08-07-2015, 09:33 AM)jj22 Wrote: I still think a big (maybe the biggest) issue with our playoff performances is the lack of half time adjustments. Which is why we get schooled the second half.

(08-06-2015, 07:20 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: sounds like a politically correct non-answer to me

(08-06-2015, 08:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What the hell does a question about a QB have to do with being "politically correct"?

And even if you don't agree with it it was actually a good answer.

(08-06-2015, 10:03 PM)jason Wrote: Jay Mohr picked the Bengals to finish last in the division with a 5-11 or 6-10 record, and claimed Marvin would be fired. I heard this driving home from work today.  It was all I could do to not pick up the phone to tell him that he's lost his damn mind.  Some guy from Cincinnati beat me to it.

(08-06-2015, 10:39 PM)magikod Wrote: How dumb is Jay Mohr? lol

(08-06-2015, 08:33 PM)Thundercloud Wrote: Really, the defensive line has played poorly at least for the last two.  And our linebackers are really a pretty average crew, and they may not have played even that well.  Thought we should have taken a front seven player in the first round, instead of someone who won't help this year. I usually have no problem with long term stuff, but this is a team on the verge, and when that's the case, I think you should try to do something more immediate.

WTS, I'm not defending Dalton.  He's played as bad as anybody in the playoffs.

And though this is always an easy target, I've got to think about the coaches, too.  It seems to me we just come out there like we're not ready to play.  Where's the fire?  The players have to take some of that responsibility, too.  How hard should it be to get fired up for the playoffs?  Whatever the reason, we just seem like we're half paralyzed at times in the playoffs.  Hey, baby, just let it roll.

(08-07-2015, 08:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I've also posted numbers plus the opinions of experts like Jon Gruden.  Why do you think that neutral analysts like Jon Gruden and other national media members would refuse to look at facts?

The people who want to blame Dalton for every aspect of the game including coaching, defense, running game, and pass protection are the ones who refuse to look at the truth. 

(08-07-2015, 12:31 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: You can when the opposing offense gets excellent field position after yet another interception, or the odd fumble.  

When the defense gets backed into a corner against Playoff caliber offenses, bad things happen.  The defense deserves blame in the losses, but hasn't played terribly.  Rather, they just haven't been very good either.  Most alarming to is the failure to stop the run.  That being said, Andy has played like a bum in all four Playoff losses.  The losses aren't 100% on him.  However,  as QB, poor play by Andy exerts a greater negative influence on the game's outcome than any other position on the field.  That's the cold hard truth, and why Dalton catches more flak than anyone else.

(08-06-2015, 08:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What the hell does a question about a QB have to do with being "politically correct"?

And even if you don't agree with it it was actually a good answer.

(08-07-2015, 08:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I've also posted numbers plus the opinions of experts like Jon Gruden.  Why do you think that neutral analysts like Jon Gruden and other national media members would refuse to look at facts?

The people who want to blame Dalton for every aspect of the game including coaching, defense, running game, and pass protection are the ones who refuse to look at the truth. 

(08-07-2015, 09:33 AM)jj22 Wrote: I still think a big (maybe the biggest) issue with our playoff performances is the lack of half time adjustments. Which is why we get schooled the second half. That's on the coaches. Dalton's played poorly no doubt, but the coaching staff has used that as a crutch to hide their incompetence (getting outcoached) and poor playoff record. And that's a lot to put on a 2nd round qb.

(08-06-2015, 07:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Asked about Andy Dalton winning a playoff game.  Gruden said that dalton can be a good QB, but just has not played well in the playoffs.  Then said the main point he wanted to make was that the entire Bengal team had not played well in the playoffs.  Said that even though Dalton had not played well he was not the only problem.

(08-07-2015, 03:39 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: we get it.  you love the guy unconditionally.

(08-07-2015, 04:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Obviously you don't get it because I have repeatedly said that dalton has played very poorly in playoff games.

And if Gruden's answer had anything to do with protecting his brother then he would not have alleged that the entire team played poorly.  That puts blame squarely on the coaches.