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+---- Thread: Shutdown! (/Thread-Shutdown)
Shutdown! - BmorePat87 - 01-22-2018
We got ourselves a good ol' government shutdown that's entering day 3. Republicans are hoping that people believe that, despite past statements from Trump attributing all blame for shutdowns on the President and the fact that Republicans control Congress and the White House, this is all the Democrats fault and they caused a shutdown.
I'm not sure how much people will buy into this going into the midterm elections. Polling shows Most voters blame the GOP slightly more than the Democrats, 41 to 36. Independents are less likely to blame one side, but still lean towards blaming the Republicans slightly more, 34 to 27.
Most people do not believe DACA or a border wall are worth shutting the government down, with DACA being slightly more popular of a reason. Most Americans think continuing defense spending and CHIP are important. All in all, 84% of respondents support continuing DACA while only 35% want a border wall.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/government-shutdown-2018-polls-blame-353728
RE: Shutdown! - Belsnickel - 01-22-2018
The issue I raise when bringing this up is that the need to renew CHIP funding and the DACA program is a problem manufactured by the GOP themselves and has been delayed by them, likely for political ammunition. These programs are expired because of their choice to end them, and at any point since they ended there could have been a bipartisan bill on the floor to renew each one. It was promised it would happen by GOP leadership. Instead, though, they did nothing about it. They lied, they kicked the can down the road to politicize the issue.
Then, we actually have a bipartisan solution offered to keep the government open and do all the things. Durbin and Graham hammer it out, they had support enough to pass both chambers, and Trump reneges on his previous statements because he has Santa Monica fascist Steve Miller in his ear.
RE: Shutdown! - GMDino - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 10:23 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The issue I raise when bringing this up is that the need to renew CHIP funding and the DACA program is a problem manufactured by the GOP themselves and has been delayed by them, likely for political ammunition. These programs are expired because of their choice to end them, and at any point since they ended there could have been a bipartisan bill on the floor to renew each one. It was promised it would happen by GOP leadership. Instead, though, they did nothing about it. They lied, they kicked the can down the road to politicize the issue.
Then, we actually have a bipartisan solution offered to keep the government open and do all the things. Durbin and Graham hammer it out, they had support enough to pass both chambers, and Trump reneges on his previous statements because he has Santa Monica fascist Steve Miller in his ear.
This is what I have said over and over this weekend.
I understand the people who want to blame "both sides" but this is a manufactured shutdown. It could have EASILY been avoided except one side didn't want to do that.
Bottom line.
RE: Shutdown! - bfine32 - 01-22-2018
Obviously, I disagree with the above sentiment; just as I blamed the GOP for the shutdown in 2013; I blame the Dems for this one. The tactic of tying stuff you are trying to get approved/ rescinded, ect... to the budget is ridiculous. The deadline for DACA was established and has not been exceeded, the GOP has kicked nothing down the road; POTUS actually did the exact opposite when he established a deadline for DACA.
RE: Shutdown! - CKwi88 - 01-22-2018
In this edition of Trump Tweets/quotes that aged well:
Our country needs leadership now. There is total dysfunction in Washington.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 27, 2013
"@jj10471 @realDonaldTrump if you were in office this would of never happen #trump2016" True!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 1, 2013
Quote:'I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president's the leader'
-Trump, 2013
RE: Shutdown! - bfine32 - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 11:20 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: In this edition of Trump Tweets/quotes that aged well:
Unfortunately, POTUS does not have a monopoly on speaking out of both sides of his mouth:
Chuck Schumer Wrote:“No matter how strongly one feels about an issue, you shouldn’t hold millions of people hostage. That’s what the other side is doing.”
The difference is: only one of the 2 were actually part of the legislative process back in 2013, the other was just a businessman with aspirations.
RE: Shutdown! - Belsnickel - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 11:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Obviously, I disagree with the above sentiment; just as I blamed the GOP for the shutdown in 2013; I blame the Dems for this one. The tactic of tying stuff you are trying to get approved/ rescinded, ect... to the budget is ridiculous. The deadline for DACA was established and has not been exceeded, the GOP has kicked nothing down the road; POTUS actually did the exact opposite when he established a deadline for DACA.
How do you feel about the option GOP leadership has of ending the filibuster rule?
RE: Shutdown! - bfine32 - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 11:43 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: How do you feel about the option GOP leadership has of ending the filibuster rule?
I am opposed as it sets a dangerous precident
RE: Shutdown! - CKwi88 - 01-22-2018
As for the shutdown itself, it's just more partisan fingerpointing.
If you're GOP biased, he Dems are obstructing. If your Dem biased, the GOP is reaping what was sown back in 2013.
And America is the worse for it.
RE: Shutdown! - GMDino - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 11:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Unfortunately, POTUS does not have a monopoly on speaking out of both sides of his mouth:
The difference is: only one of the 2 were actually part of the legislative process back in 2013, the other was just a businessman with aspirations.
Yet one thought he can do better with no experience.
We see how that worked out.
Beyond spin/lies this is stilla GOP manufactured shutdown. Why should the Democrats believe they will do anything before March? More to the point why should they believe the POTUS will agree to what they do when he has shown he can change his wants and "thoughts" on a whim.
The Democrats have tried to pass a bill to pay the military...repeatedly. McConnell won't even let it come to a vote.
This is the GOP shutdown. And the President is the head of the GOP right now.
RE: Shutdown! - Benton - 01-22-2018
McConnell has shown a different side here. I always thought with all his military pork that he was just on a couple special interest payrolls. But shooting down paying soldiers shows he's multi-faceted and on plenty of doles. Good for him for being a well-rounded hammer to beat down people.
RE: Shutdown! - bfine32 - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 11:57 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yet one thought he can do better with no experience.
We see how that worked out.
Beyond spin/lies this is stilla GOP manufactured shutdown. Why should the Democrats believe they will do anything before March? More to the point why should they believe the POTUS will agree to what they do when he has shown he can change his wants and "thoughts" on a whim.
The Democrats have tried to pass a bill to pay the military...repeatedly. McConnell won't even let it come to a vote.
This is the GOP shutdown. And the President is the head of the GOP right now.
Hell, I have no experience and feel I can do better and I'll bet Trump nor I have a monopoly on that way of thinking.
None of this explains why the Dems won't approve a CR scheduled to end before DACA.
I get that folks are going to take their usual sides on this; however, I can tell you which side the folks that are directly affected by the shutdown are taking. What have the GOP "manufactured" to create this shutdown? Failed to act on something whose deadline has not been reached?
RE: Shutdown! - michaelsean - 01-22-2018
So if for some reason CHIP is never renewed, do you think they will take away the tobacco taxes used to fund it?
RE: Shutdown! - BmorePat87 - 01-22-2018
The dealmaker in chief worked his famed skills by not having any meetings at the White House all weekend. Hell, as Congress worked on Sunday, he didn't even leave the White House
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/21/politics/donald-trump-shutdown-negotiation/index.html?sr=fbCNNp012118donald-trump-shutdown-negotiation0600PMVODtop&CNNPolitics=fb
Must have ordered half a dozen big macs for lunch. Maybe a TV marathon?
RE: Shutdown! - GMDino - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 12:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, I have no experience and feel I can do better and I'll bet Trump nor I have a monopoly on that way of thinking.
None of this explains why the Dems won't approve a CR scheduled to end before DACA.
I get that folks are going to take their usual sides on this; however, I can tell you which side the folks that are directly affected by the shutdown are taking. What have the GOP "manufactured" to create this shutdown? Failed to act on something whose deadline has not been reached?
Failed to renew Chip...for months.
POTUS forced a deal on DACA...they brought a deal...he rejected it.
It's on them.
This could have all been down by now.
RE: Shutdown! - bfine32 - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 12:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: Failed to renew Chip...for months.
POTUS forced a deal on DACA...they brought a deal...he rejected it.
It's on them.
This could have all been down by now.
CHIP is in the new CR so that excuse is moot and just because POTUS rejects your wants is no reason to stop funding the government; especially while there is still plenty time before a deadline.
I must say I'm surprised you and the usual suspects are looking to pin this on Trump when he has not been given any legislature to either sign or veto.
OK, I'm not surprised you and the usual suspects are looking to pin this on Trump.
RE: Shutdown! - Goalpost - 01-22-2018
I keep hearing about this deal. So there was a wall, chain migration and lottery in it? Cause we know what the president wants.
RE: Shutdown! - bfine32 - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 12:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The dealmaker in chief worked his famed skills by not having any meetings at the White House all weekend. Hell, as Congress worked on Sunday, he didn't even leave the White House
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/21/politics/donald-trump-shutdown-negotiation/index.html?sr=fbCNNp012118donald-trump-shutdown-negotiation0600PMVODtop&CNNPolitics=fb
Must have ordered half a dozen big macs for lunch. Maybe a TV marathon?
Meh, some may have appreciated the fact that he stayed put and allowed Congress to try and do their job; while staying in the WH ready to sign anything passed. But others will find fault in it and even take shots at his physical appearance.
RE: Shutdown! - michaelsean - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Meh, some may have appreciated the fact that he stayed put and allowed Congress to try and do their job; while staying in the WH ready to sign anything passed. But others will find fault in it and even take shots at his physical appearance.
Probably ate a double quarter pounder and large fries while they were working.
RE: Shutdown! - BmorePat87 - 01-22-2018
(01-22-2018, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Meh, some may have appreciated the fact that he stayed put and allowed Congress to try and do their job; while staying in the WH ready to sign anything passed. But others will find fault in it and even take shots at his physical appearance.
At the very least, when you're sending your alt right linked immigration advisor down to reject bipartisan DACA deals (at least according to Lindsey Graham) while running on the idea that you're this great deal maker, you may want to be actively involved in crafting a deal that you have to sign off on. We can reject his numerous comments from years ago when he said it's the President's job to stop a shut down and make a deal and that he could if he was President... but at the very least you should be involved, not hiding at home and tweeting.
Also, I took shots at his reported eating and TV habits, not his physical appearance. They're part of a greater pattern of him just not doing anything as President. He has spent every fifth day of his Presidency at a golf course and spends hours a day watching cable news. It's not a surprise to anyone paying attention that he isn't directly involved in any deal making. He's out of his league here.