(02-05-2018, 02:41 PM)lone bengal Wrote: My thing is if the Bengals sign Bodine I’m assuming it will be for starting center money vs backup money. So If theirs a high rated center in the draft let’s say in round two like maybe Price or the kid from Iowa I think the Bengals logic would be were not drafting a center that high because were paying Bodine starting money.

(02-07-2018, 02:07 PM)bengals67 Wrote: This is not a rational organization.

(01-28-2018, 11:24 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: Unless it was Pollack who raised Lazerus from the dead I'm not optimistic. 

Yes Alexander had lost his touch but no way that Bodines struggles are all on the coach. Bengals have had some great lineman who got better with experience. Bodine had a long run to learn the game. He was surrounded by some solid pros. 

He clearly showed he is not hood enough. 

It feels like Marv always keeps the player fans hate the most. I honestly can't belueve that is intentional but..........

(02-07-2018, 02:43 PM)fullonbehavior Wrote: Just curious, how long ago would you say that we had a above average center?

(02-07-2018, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To be fair, this is not a rational fan base either.

(02-05-2018, 02:41 PM)lone bengal Wrote: My thing is if the Bengals sign Bodine I’m assuming it will be for starting center money vs backup money. So If theirs a high rated center in the draft let’s say in round two like maybe Price or the kid from Iowa I think the Bengals logic would be were not drafting a center that high because were paying Bodine starting money.

(02-05-2018, 04:13 PM)sandwedge Wrote: And your logic would be right. The only thing I can think of is Pollack sees something flawed with Bodine's mechanics or his system is very different than the last idiot's, that Russell fits better....

(02-07-2018, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To be fair, this is not a rational fan base either.

Remember when playing Peko was "proof the Bengals don't care about winning"?  Remember when Dre Kirkpatrick played like a top 30 CB and people here were acting he was the worst in the league?

The Bengals have the worst owner in the league who spends the least on outside free agents, yet over the last 8 years only FIVE teams have a better record.

Bengals have some problems they need to address, but our coaches are outperforming an overwhelming majority of the league.

(02-05-2018, 02:41 PM)lone bengal Wrote: My thing is if the Bengals sign Bodine I’m assuming it will be for starting center money vs backup money. So If theirs a high rated center in the draft let’s say in round two like maybe Price or the kid from Iowa I think the Bengals logic would be were not drafting a center that high because were paying Bodine starting money.

(02-07-2018, 04:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And you are proof of some of that irrationality Fred...

The coaching is what has held this team back from performing when it matters, in the Playoffs.

It is not a coincidence that everytime we get there the team sucks no matter who the players are.

Even our best players do not play well besides Burfict against the Steelers.

(02-07-2018, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To be fair, this is not a rational fan base either.

Remember when playing Peko was "proof the Bengals don't care about winning"?  Remember when Dre Kirkpatrick played like a top 30 CB and people here were acting he was the worst in the league?

The Bengals have the worst owner in the league who spends the least on outside free agents, yet over the last 8 years only FIVE teams have a better record.

Bengals have some problems they need to address, but our coaches are outperforming an overwhelming majority of the league.

(02-07-2018, 04:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Fred just wants people to be appreciative of the fact the Bengals have been one of the most successful regular-season teams since Dalton came into the league.
And while I completely understand that mindset and do think most of us have taken playoff appearances for granted, it's pretty evident the majority of the fan base just wants to see that elusive playoff win.
Maybe if/when the Bengals do get that playoff win, we'll start seeing more appreciation for regular-season wins again.

What would the fans consider more successful?
1) Five consecutive playoff appearances but no playoff wins
2) Two playoff appearances in a span of five years but one playoff victory

(02-07-2018, 04:27 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Come on Fred

0-7 in playoffs

How many playoff wins in the history of the franchise- 3 or 4 in 50 years? And all of those before Mike took over?

record against Steelers overall and at home.

What rational organization does not make big changes after these facts

Would the Eagles have won Super Bowl with Reid or Chip Kelly?

And I will plead guilty. But  who can blame the long suffering fans - including me who has watched this for over 50 years- for losing our minds to some extent.

The Bengals fans are some of the best and most loyal in all pro sports under these circumstances. Pleasing the fans or fan loyalty are not big issues with Mike Brown.

(02-07-2018, 04:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The coaching is what has held this team back from performing when it matters, in the Playoffs.

(02-07-2018, 04:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What would the fans consider more successful?
1) Five consecutive playoff appearances but no playoff wins
2) Two playoff appearances in a span of five years but one playoff victory

(02-07-2018, 05:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: "When we get to the playoffs" being the point I was making.

If the coaches were as bad as so many of you claim we would never make the playoffs to begin with.  We would not win more games than all but 5 other teams over the last 8 years.  I am not saying our coaches are great, but they are not as clueless as many  of you claim.  Especially when you factor in the handicap of having Mike Brown as owner.

And its not like a lot of the Bengal players who stunk in the playoffs have gone to other teams and been playoff game stars.  Carson Palmers postseason passer rating for the Bengals was 66.5 compared to 67.1 with the Cardinals.

In most of the playoff games Marvin has coached the other team had more talent.  And against the chargers I can't blame Marvin For Gio fumbling at the goal line and Dalton fumbling for no apparent reason.

(02-07-2018, 06:46 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: When you lose 7 times in 7 straight chances, including 5 consecutive, all under the same head coach...there comes a point where the obvious conclusion is that the head coach is in over his head in terms of the challenges of postseason play.

(02-07-2018, 06:46 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: This sort of illustrates the problem Fred.

The Bengals have had 7 opportunities in the playoffs. During those 7 opportunities, there have been different scenarios: favorites, underdogs, home, away, more talented, less talented, relatively healthy, important injuries, etc, etc. 

The Bengals have been able take advantage of, or win in spite of, exactly zero of those situations. Zero times in 7 chances. That's more than just players not performing well. It's more than just mistakes or bad breaks. It's a failing from the top - Marvin and his staffs...from game plans, to adjustments, to preparation for big stage pressure.

When you lose 7 times in 7 straight chances, including 5 consecutive, all under the same head coach...there comes a point where the obvious conclusion is that the head coach is in over his head in terms of the challenges of postseason play. People can make as many excuses as they want for each individual game, but at the end of the day - instead of talking about a playoff win or two - that's all we're left with...a myriad of excuses.

(02-07-2018, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To be fair, this is not a rational fan base either.

Remember when playing Peko was "proof the Bengals don't care about winning"?  Remember when Dre Kirkpatrick played like a top 30 CB and people here were acting he was the worst in the league?

The Bengals have the worst owner in the league who spends the least on outside free agents, yet over the last 8 years only FIVE teams have a better record.

Bengals have some problems they need to address, but our coaches are outperforming an overwhelming majority of the league.

(02-07-2018, 07:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not when he was not favored to win many of those games because the other team had more talent.

Quote:Do you think Belichick does not try as hard to win in the regular season as he does in the playoffs? I don't.

Quote:Do you think Mike Shanahan, Rex Ryan, and Gary Kubiak are better postseason coaches than Belichick?  They have all beaten him in the playoffs.   

Quote:John Harbaugh has has a winning record against Belichick in the postseason.  Does that mean John is a better coach the Bill?

Quote:The answer is that you can not judge a coach on a small sample size.  You can't say that Belichicks 11 postseason losses in don't count because he has won other postseason games.  If it really was all about coaching then Bill would never have lost any of those.  Losing in the playoffs is about a bunch of different things like talent, matchups, and sometimes just plain luck.  The fact that Marvin has lost 3 playoff games where he was favored does not mean it is impossible for him to win in the postseason.  that is just too small of a sample size.

Quote:And you can't just brush this off as being crazy to compare Marvin to Bill.  That is not what I am doing.  Instead I am using Belichick as an example because most people here would consider him one of the greatest postseason coaches of all time yet he has 11 post season losses.

(02-07-2018, 08:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I haven't researched the exact mathematical statistics on the likelihood of losing 7 straight playoff appearances, but I would imagine the odds to be pretty slim.

(02-07-2018, 09:43 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Kirkpatrick is still garbage.   Dude you're killing me