(02-23-2018, 03:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know why so many people are aginst letting teachers carry gins to school.

Don't MAKE any of them carry guns.

Make sure every one that does is trained.

But what the hell is it going to hurt?  There are lots of teachers who own guns and would probably like to carry on school.

And when you make a comment like "The people who claim teachers are stupid now want to let them carry guns" to oppose this plan you are basically saying you agree with the people who claim teachers are stupid.

It is not like letting kids carry guns.  Teachers are supposed to be smart and educated.  Why can't they be trusted with guns?

(02-23-2018, 03:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ridiculous comments like this is how subjects often get off track.

(02-23-2018, 03:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Not so much my hobby as my field of study. I went back to school and am currently working on a degree in policy analysis/assessment. Working at a university, I am able to take classes for free and not have to travel far for them.

(02-23-2018, 03:43 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: People in this thread are suggesting that we arm educators. The thread has been ridiculous and off track from the real issues for quite a while.

(02-23-2018, 03:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know why so many people are aginst letting teachers carry gins to school.

Don't MAKE any of them carry guns.

Make sure every one that does is trained.

But what the hell is it going to hurt?  There are lots of teachers who own guns and would probably like to carry on school.

And when you make a comment like "The people who claim teachers are stupid now want to let them carry guns" to oppose this plan you are basically saying you agree with the people who claim teachers are stupid.

It is not like letting kids carry guns.  Teachers are supposed to be smart and educated.  Why can't they be trusted with guns?

(02-23-2018, 03:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is what is crazy when you start looking at cultural influences and "mass shootings".

40-50 years ago there were MORE gun owners in the United Sates than there are today.

40-50 years ago there was just as much violent crime and many MORE deadly riots.  Peoples heads explode today if one person gets injured in a BLM demonstration but here are the death tolls from some riots in the 60's....Detroit '67 forty-three dead, Watts '65 thirty-four dead, Newark '67 twenty-six dead.  There were also multiple assassinations of public figures (MLK, John and Bobby Kennedy).

So there were more gun owners and overall our society was much more violent.  Yet "mass shootings" were extremely rare.

So if you want to look at cultural/social issues behind mass shootings you don't need to compare the US to other countries.  you need to compare the US today to the US 40-50 years ago.

(02-23-2018, 02:30 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: So how do you feel about having to go to work armed in order to teach kids?

(02-23-2018, 04:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do Fred and I actually agree on a topic in PnR?

(02-23-2018, 03:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course that is your opinion; as many feel a "harder target' is a deterrent. it's fine to disagree with that and provide examples, but there is no need to stoop to the level of comments such as those you provided.

(02-23-2018, 03:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You are the one that introduced movie Theaters into a back and forth about allowing educators to carry and some how my comments are irrelevant and I'm not following.  

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(02-23-2018, 03:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How can you tell me that the location is relevant to where I would want to carry a weapon?

(02-23-2018, 03:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said I don't speak for educators, but your friends aside, there may be an educator or 2 out there that would welcome the opportunity to better protect his/her children if the situation arose.

(02-23-2018, 03:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who are you or any of us on here to tell them they cannot be afforded that right.

(02-23-2018, 04:17 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: So you're telling me that if a shooter walks into a school, and the children are armed, they will not be deterred? Are these students not a "harder target"?

Is age the issue? Maybe we could only issue the guns to the 18 year old students?

(02-23-2018, 03:35 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: One point someone made which shouldn't be overlooked is that the fact that mass shootings occur in places other than schools is being overlooked with these suggestions that the solution is to arm teachers. 

Are we also arming ushers at theaters? What about concession workers at concerts? Waiters at night clubs? Arm all priests? Bus boys at restaurants? Drive thru cashiers as McDonalds?

It's ridiculous that the defense of arming teachers is mentioning how it's good to have a gun in a war zone, but ridiculous proposals tend to have ridiculous defenses. 

(02-23-2018, 04:36 PM)Benton Wrote: Agreed, you aren’t following if you equate a trained soldier in a war zone to a teacher in a domestic school. If you aren’t, maybe irrelevant comments could be rambled on in a less serious thread. Try the cooking threads.

“How to cook a roast? Why, In my day we rehydrated our mres with goat sweat. Tasty.”

(02-23-2018, 04:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Because it was passed off as an example of you feeling better being armed,  

If I was deployed with a branch of the service I'd sure feel better being armed too.  

To throw that in in a discussion about arming teachers is a red herring.

Because...


Sure.  Some might feel better in lots of different ways.  Like having adequate protection in the form of bulletproof windows or fewer students so they could give the ones that seem to need  help more help.



"right"?

Is the argument going to be that NOT allowing teachers to carry guns on the job is a violation of their right to bear arms?

Because that is a far cry from allowing it.

And let me back up a bit and say I have not come down as strictly opposed to the idea.  I have played devil's advocate on how it would be implemented and paid for.

Maybe 1 or 2 or 8 armed teachers would work in some situations...maybe not in others.

There was an armed man in Florida.  He didn't do anything.

(02-23-2018, 04:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, the right (morally good, justified, or acceptable) to carry a weapon in this situation has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment

Hell, I'm for whatever allows our educators to feel more comfortable and to care for those under their charge


I'm not sure how it falls in the Red Herring category. As I said, I wish we could ask those brave educators would they have liked to have had something other than their bodies to protect the children that they so heroically did.

(02-23-2018, 05:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If this is really something that is as common as it seems and being unarmed as a teacher is an odd thing, I fully expect the types of people that enter the teaching profession to change over the next generation.  I mostly feel for the people I know who are teachers who aren't really into the idea of being armed and shooting people being part of their job, and I mostly feel that way because I don't think anyone foresaw this sort of thing becoming an issue when they were choosing their careers.

(02-23-2018, 04:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, the right (morally good, justified, or acceptable) to carry a weapon in this situation has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment

Hell, I'm for whatever allows our educators to feel more comfortable and to care for those under their charge


I'm not sure how it falls in the Red Herring category. As I said, I wish we could ask those brave educators would they have liked to have had something other than their bodies to protect the children that they so heroically did.

(02-23-2018, 05:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: I don't want you to think that was an attack.

I'm just looking at it as a soldier would feel safer with a gun in a war zone than a teacher would in his desk while teaching history.  Meaning that knowing they have a gun and may have to use it but never know when is different for a soldier and a teacher.

Certainly SOME might want to be armed.  I just haven't met one I know yet.

And, I agree, that we have to do more than just arm a few teachers.  There has to be a broad change in multiple areas of society.

(02-23-2018, 05:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If this is really something that is as common as it seems and being unarmed as a teacher is an odd thing, I fully expect the types of people that enter the teaching profession to change over the next generation.  I mostly feel for the people I know who are teachers who aren't really into the idea of being armed and shooting people being part of their job, and I mostly feel that way because I don't think anyone foresaw this sort of thing becoming an issue when they were choosing their careers.