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Russian troops land in Venzuela - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Russian troops land in Venzuela (/Thread-Russian-troops-land-in-Venzuela) Pages:
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Russian troops land in Venzuela - Bengalzona - 03-24-2019 https://thinkprogress.org/russian-troops-land-in-venezuela-as-us-considers-military-options-59acc24966d3/ Quote:Russian troops land in Caracas as US considers military intervention in Venezuela RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Benton - 03-25-2019 Quote:“To those who are helping send the Venezuelan people’s wealth out of the country to benefit Maduro and his cronies, you are on notice today that the United States is watching,” he wrote. And then Bolton took to Twitter to issue a stern warn to US companies hiding $2.5 trillion in offshore accounts to escape taxes, while spending millions in the form of lobbyist dollars. ![]() RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Yojimbo - 03-25-2019 I’m firmly in the camp of “we need to leave Venezuela the **** alone”. So what if THEIR ALLY landed troops in THEIR country. We have no authority to pick and choose the relationships that other sovereign nations choose to make. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - michaelsean - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 11:45 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’m firmly in the camp of “we need to leave Venezuela the **** alone”. So what if THEIR ALLY landed troops in THEIR country. We have no authority to pick and choose the relationships that other sovereign nations choose to make. Yup leave that one alone. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Bengalzona - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 11:45 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’m firmly in the camp of “we need to leave Venezuela the **** alone”. So what if THEIR ALLY landed troops in THEIR country. We have no authority to pick and choose the relationships that other sovereign nations choose to make. It would ideal if we could. But we have apparently already stuck our neck in. Between their massive oil reserves and the need of some in our country feel to prove that socialism must fail, there are those who want us involved. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - michaelsean - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 01:35 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: It would ideal if we could. But we have apparently already stuck our neck in. Between their massive oil reserves and the need of some in our country feel to prove that socialism must fail, there are those who want us involved. Venezuela will sell the oil regardless of who is in charge so who gives a crap? RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Bengalzona - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 02:13 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Venezuela will sell the oil regardless of who is in charge so who gives a crap? Our oil companies. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 01:35 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: It would ideal if we could. But we have apparently already stuck our neck in. Between their massive oil reserves and the need of some in our country feel to prove that socialism must fail, there are those who want us involved. The oil is important, but it isn't nearly the strategic concern that it once was, the US is now the world's largest oil producer. Of course the US doesn't want a Russian or Chinese presence in the western hemisphere and yes that is 100% hypocritical. As far as proving socialism must fail, Venezuela did that completely on their own. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Dill - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 11:45 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’m firmly in the camp of “we need to leave Venezuela the **** alone”. So what if THEIR ALLY landed troops in THEIR country. We have no authority to pick and choose the relationships that other sovereign nations choose to make. (03-25-2019, 01:16 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yup leave that one alone. ![]() RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - GMDino - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 02:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The oil is important, but it isn't nearly the strategic concern that it once was, the US is now the world's largest oil producer. Of course the US doesn't want a Russian or Chinese presence in the western hemisphere and yes that is 100% hypocritical. As far as proving socialism must fail, Venezuela did that completely on their own. Serious question: How do our reserves stack up with others though? I know the shale oil supply is good, but only if oil remains above a certain price. At least that was the case 5+ years ago. Not that I disagree with the idea that we should not interfere for simple oil reasons. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 03:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: Serious question: How do our reserves stack up with others though? I know the shale oil supply is good, but only if oil remains above a certain price. At least that was the case 5+ years ago. According to this we rank tenth. You are correct that shale oil needs production needs oil prices to be at a certain level to be profitable. However, I'm not talking about profitability, I'm talking strategically. In an armed conflict the cost of extracting shale oil is almost a non-issue. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - michaelsean - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 03:21 PM)Dill Wrote: It’s the Asian part of Russia RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - GMDino - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 03:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: According to this we rank tenth. You are correct that shale oil needs production needs oil prices to be at a certain level to be profitable. However, I'm not talking about profitability, I'm talking strategically. In an armed conflict the cost of extracting shale oil is almost a non-issue. Certainly! LOL! Suddenly socialism (government supporting the extraction companies) will be loved by everyone! RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 03:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: Certainly! LOL! Suddenly socialism (government supporting the extraction companies) will be loved by everyone! Socialism is government ownership of the means of production. Subsidies are not socialism, especially when they are given in order to ensure national survival. In any event, these types of things are also covered by concepts like war bonds, not exactly a socialist construct. Lastly, if you're trying to make an argument for socialism, a thread about the utterly failed socialist state of Venezuela seems a poor place to do it. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - GMDino - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 03:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Socialism is government ownership of the means of production. Subsidies are not socialism, especially when they are given in order to ensure national survival. In any event, these types of things are also covered by concepts like war bonds, not exactly a socialist construct. Lastly, if you're trying to make an argument for socialism, a thread about the utterly failed socialist state of Venezuela seems a poor place to do it. I'm not making an argument for anything. I'm just joking that if the government started funding the extraction companies the GOP would love to have bigger government involvement and the use of funds for it. And I didn't think about war bonds (something we went without the last couple wars), but everyone contributing to a common cause works for me whether that is "socialism" or not. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 04:01 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'm not making an argument for anything. My apologies for the incorrect interpretation of your statements Quote: I'm just joking that if the government started funding the extraction companies the GOP would love to have bigger government involvement and the use of funds for it. And I didn't think about war bonds (something we went without the last couple wars), but everyone contributing to a common cause works for me whether that is "socialism" or not. What's preventing the government from doing exactly that? My impression is that government involvement is wholly unnecessary given that private industry took the initiative in this regard. War bonds are absolutely a form of "we're all in this together". However, you also profit from them, it's give now receive more later. We haven't needed war bonds as our conflicts were not nearly on the scale of the second world war. Also, extreme situations can require extreme measures that would be unpractical, unworkable or unacceptable under ordinary circumstances. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Yojimbo - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 03:21 PM)Dill Wrote: Never ok with that doctrine and it is way too old to apply now. It’s original intent was to keep other European countries from colonizing Central and South America. It’s been warped into “stay out of my yard!” Again none of our business what another sovereign nation wants to do to itself. I don’t get how we can say with a straight face that Russia can’t get involved in South America because it’s too close to us, yet we have military within a stone throw of Russia. Does the Monroe Doctrine now apply everywhere outside of Russia/China own borders? RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Bengalzona - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 02:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The oil is important, but it isn't nearly the strategic concern that it once was, the US is now the world's largest oil producer. Of course the US doesn't want a Russian or Chinese presence in the western hemisphere and yes that is 100% hypocritical. As far as proving socialism must fail, Venezuela did that completely on their own. Mostly true, but they have had some assistance from us. RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - Dill - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 04:31 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Never ok with that doctrine and it is way too old to apply now. It’s original intent was to keep other European countries from colonizing Central and South America. It’s been warped into “stay out of my yard!” Again none of our business what another sovereign nation wants to do to itself. I have always found it problematic and puzzling. But we have needed that precedent to overthrow democratic governments in favor of US corporations. You got the Russia thing all wrong. This is how you should be looking at it. ![]() RE: Russian troops land in Venzuela - hollodero - 03-25-2019 (03-25-2019, 02:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As far as proving socialism must fail, Venezuela did that completely on their own. (03-25-2019, 03:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Socialism is government ownership of the means of production. I still kind of object this description, as it is only one of many different definitions. This one is merely the historical one - but most western socialists to not define themselves that way or align with this goal. I consider myself living in a socialist state and this state has not failed. Certainly not Venezuelan-style. We do kinda suck at soccer, but that's not due to socialism, as the US proves. |