+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Cincinnati-Bengals-NFL)
+--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-JUNGLE-NOISE)
+--- Thread: How Much Power Does ZT Have? (/Thread-How-Much-Power-Does-ZT-Have)
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - Rubekahn29 - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 06:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have no idea. All I know is that he was looking for a job and we had one to offer.
How do you know he wouldn't come here?
I don't but I know he's not here. That is the only fact to work off in this situation. This is the equivalent to acting like every free agent wants to come here.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - PhilHos - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 06:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...and ZT as OC of the Dolphins managed to actually make Lazor's offense WORSE.
My guess is that's probably because ZT had to face a top 10 defense in 60% (3 of 5) of his games vs 27% (3 of 11) for Lazor. Easier to look better offensively when you're facing a bottom half defense 64% of the time (7 of 11 for Lazor) vs 40% of the time (2 of 5 for Taylor). And let's forget that it was his first time being an OC; that he was taking over midseason and wasn't even able to install his own offense but had to run someone else's; or that he was trying to run the ball more like the head coach wanted. No let's only look at at the numbers. Those tell a COMPLETE story.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - NKURyan - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 05:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I didn't realize you wanted a comprehensive list of EVERY candidate who would have been a better coordinator than ZT?
Maybe the 122 offensive coordinators in college football who had a better offense than him. Maybe EVERY offensive and defensive coordinator in the NFL who has a Top 10 offense or defense.
Still waiting for you to address any of the flaws in your UC argument, but you don't actually know jack about it so I won't hold my breath. You've already moved on to try to hide your ignorance.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - fredtoast - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 06:38 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I don't but I know he's not here. That is the only fact to work off in this situation. This is the equivalent to acting like every free agent wants to come here.
I guess you might be right.
We ended up with Taylor because he was the only one who would come here and take the job under Mike Browns rules.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - Nately120 - 09-05-2019
![[Image: ZTman.jpg]](https://i.ibb.co/3MX02nN/ZTman.jpg)
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - Whatever - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 07:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guess you might be right.
We ended up with Taylor because he was the only one who would come here and take the job under Mike Browns rules.
Riiigggghhhhttt....I'm sure Hue didn't want the job.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - Whatever - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 05:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I named 3 guys. Bieniemy, while you may not like him...has more NFL experience than Taylor. And I feel like IF we hired Bieniemy, you all would be talking about how great he is.
I also named Lafleur and Lincoln Riley.
I could come up with a bunch more guys too.
Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern did a great job with an irrelevant program and is worth a look. Jim Harbaugh was a heck of a coach in the NFL.
I could keep naming more. It's kind of fun watching you all try to discredit them all! I think I'll keep naming more. I'll bold them in Red so you can easily spot them.
I didn't personally like Bienemy as a candidate. I'd give him a fair shake, but I wouldn't be hyping the guy. Not that I'm hyping Taylor. As I said, he's an unknown. We could be 2-14 or 14-2. We don't even know what his offense will look like.
I would have been ok with Lafleur. Riley wasn't going to leave Oklahoma and Harbaugh wasn't going to leave Michigan. Both said as much. You may as well as thrown Belicheck's name out there. Fitzgerald is a solid college coach, but has been at Northwestern since 2001 and has no experience as an NFL assistant.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - Whatever - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 06:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe Taylor was the only one willing to work under the terms mike Brown was offering.
Remember all of the DC's we tried to hire that turned us down.
If other interviewees turned the job down, then they would have logically leaked through their representation that they turned down the job in order to seem more desirable to other employers. The DC's we tried to hire declined to interview, meaning they had no interest in the job, or we were declined the chance to interview them by their teams, or they were given a raise to stay at their current job in at least one case. I can't think of one that came in for an interview and declined the job.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - Kingslayer - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 07:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote:
You beat me to it
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - THE PISTONS - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 06:06 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: If it doesn't work, it doesn't work but expecting people to hate their favorite teams new head coach BEFORE he has even coached a game is pretty rediculous.
Why is posting ZT's track record = Asking people to hate their favorite team?
Man his track record must really be bad if you make that assumption.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - THE PISTONS - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 06:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe Taylor was the only one willing to work under the terms mike Brown was offering.
Remember all of the DC's we tried to hire that turned us down.
All of the DC's that turned down jobs here is also a red flag.
As is Pollack declining to stay and coach the line.
If these people were excited about ZT as the HC...more guys would likely come here and Pollack would stay.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - NKURyan - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 10:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why is posting ZT's track record = Asking people to hate their favorite team?
Man his track record must really be bad if you make that assumption.
Reading comprehension FAIL. He didn't say you were asking people to hate their favorite team. Try again.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - THE PISTONS - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 06:38 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I don't but I know he's not here. That is the only fact to work off in this situation. This is the equivalent to acting like every free agent wants to come here.
So you are trusting a front office that hasn't won a game in 28+ years.
How optimistic of you assuming that basically good coaches and good players don't want to come here.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - NKURyan - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 10:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: All of the DC's that turned down jobs here is also a red flag.
As is Pollack declining to stay and coach the line.
If these people were excited about ZT as the HC...more guys would likely come here and Pollack would stay.
You'd think somebody who trashes the offensive line as much as you would welcome a new position coach considering how bad they were last year.
I'm sure you won't put it solely on the players shoulders, not after blaming Zac alone for UC's offensive woes. Because that'd make you a hypocrite.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - THE PISTONS - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 06:45 PM)PhilHos Wrote: My guess is that's probably because ZT had to face a top 10 defense in 60% (3 of 5) of his games vs 27% (3 of 11) for Lazor. Easier to look better offensively when you're facing a bottom half defense 64% of the time (7 of 11 for Lazor) vs 40% of the time (2 of 5 for Taylor). And let's forget that it was his first time being an OC; that he was taking over midseason and wasn't even able to install his own offense but had to run someone else's; or that he was trying to run the ball more like the head coach wanted. No let's only look at at the numbers. Those tell a COMPLETE story.
Maybe those defenses finished in the Top 10 because they shut down the Dolphins offense?
Ok. Now explain why his offense was ranked 123rd out of 128 teams at U of Cincy?
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - NKURyan - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 10:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you are trusting a front office that hasn't won a game in 28+ years.
How optimistic of you assuming that basically good coaches and good players don't want to come here.
From "why is everyone so optimistic" to "omg why aren't you all more optimistic" in one thread. Impressive!
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - Joelist - 09-05-2019
Good grief...
Whether some here like it or not Taylor was on multiple short lists for head coach. He came here. From the way it played out it seemed we had informally sealed the deal prior to the Super Bowl but of course had to wait until it was over for ZT to be officially free to join the club.
As to how much authority, we really are guessing in some areas. Was the near total cleanout of assistants and staff even to the medical staff a ZT thing? If I had to guess it had to be at least partly his call. Why does Taylor have a larger staff than preceding coaches? Again we cannot be sure.
How about player acquisition? We know that historically MB and Tobin have had most of the say. Do they still? Seeing as this year's free agent crop was one of the worst since Free Agency started I was okay with the decision not to drop megabucks on journeymen. The draft seemed clearly to be based a lot on input from ZT as he said going in they were looking to bolster the blocking and came out with three picks used on blockers.
Things like the schemes, who plays and such are obvious under ZTs authority - anyone think MB would start Damion Willis or sit our first rounder from last season?
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - THE PISTONS - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 07:34 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Still waiting for you to address any of the flaws in your UC argument, but you don't actually know jack about it so I won't hold my breath. You've already moved on to try to hide your ignorance.
What are the flaws in it? He ranked 123rd out of 128 teams?
College is the ultimate proving ground for innovative coaches to put in offenses that optimize players. Taylor failed at that. Heck, it's what the spread offense does.
He took over the Dolphins offense and made it worse too.
Then, what job does he get? Assistant WR Coach and QB Coach. Maybe if he hung around the Rams long enough, he would have been upgraded to a WR coach!
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - NKURyan - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 10:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ok. Now explain why his offense was ranked 123rd out of 128 teams at U of Cincy?
I did, repeatedly. You have yet to address any of it because you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Again, did the UC offense instantly kick into gear and rocket up the rankings after ZT was gone? Spoiler: no.
RE: How Much Power Does ZT Have? - NKURyan - 09-05-2019
(09-05-2019, 10:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What are the flaws in it? He ranked 123rd out of 128 teams?
College is the ultimate proving ground for innovative coaches to put in offenses that optimize players. Taylor failed at that. Heck, it's what the spread offense does.
He took over the Dolphins offense and made it worse too.
Then, what job does he get? Assistant WR Coach and QB Coach. Maybe if he hung around the Rams long enough, he would have been upgraded to a WR coach!
Show me the talent on that UC roster you insisted he had, then show me how the offense instantly became good when he left. You can't. You've already proven to be completely ignorant to what Tuberville's time was actually like here and you're just talking out your ass.
Now go ahead and tell me how it wasn't Pollack's fault the offensive line was bad last year, he just didn't have the players. Embrace your hypocrisy.