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+---- Thread: mail in voting (/Thread-mail-in-voting)
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-22-2020
(06-22-2020, 03:34 PM)Dill Wrote: Lots of people who live in urban areas argue like this.
"Most people" is not all. "Not all" can be thousands.
People keep claiming voter ID laws hamper minorities because they do. And because they are designed to do exactly that.
My favorite is still the North Dakota law which required voters to present an ID with a street address, knowing that many Native Americans do not have that. (I lived on a Montana reservation while in HS, and had no street address.) Fortunately, the Spirit Lake Nation and the Standing Rock Siioux brought a successful lawsuit against the state to rectify the measure.
North Dakota And Native American Tribes Settle Voter ID Lawsuits
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/14/806083852/north-dakota-and-native-american-tribes-settle-voter-id-lawsuits
My mother-in-law never had a birth certificate. No one knew whether she was actually born in 1917 or 1918. (She preferred 1918). And yet some states have made a birth certificate a requirement for getting an ID. In 2012, Mississippi was requiring a voter id based upon a valid birth certificate which thousands of elderly (black) Mississipians did not have. Fortunately, with the help of the ACLU, that problem has been fixed.
State Facing Voter ID Hurdles
https://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2012/jul/05/state-facing-voter-id-hurdles/
U.S. Appeals Court Strikes Down North Carolina's Voter ID Law
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/29/487935700/u-s-appeals-court-strikes-down-north-carolinas-voter-id-law
One should see these laws as part of a larger strategy to reduce minority (=Democrat) votes which includes not only disenfranchisement of felons but purging voters lists immediately before elections, forbidding college students to vote on campus and same day registration, and early voting.
1 Out Of Every 8 Milwaukee Registered Voters Is On Purge List
https://patch.com/wisconsin/milwaukee/1-out-every-8-milwaukee-registered-voters-purge-list
Lawsuit: Mississippi Constitution still disenfranchising thousands
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2018/03/27/mississippi-still-disenfranchising-thousands/458068002/
The motivation for all these changes in voting laws is the supposed danger of unregistered, illegal voters--a fear not born out by data over the last 40 years.
Forcing the Natives to have a street address was wrong and it was rightfully fixed.
Not sure what the criteria was used for these purging lists many states try to do. Seriously, even a Judge that presided over a case was on one of these purge lists, and ofc he tossed the case cause of faulty data.
Only people that should be purged is people that have died or people using fraudulent ids.
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-22-2020
(06-22-2020, 03:41 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You cited Covid 19 as the reason for the contraction of polling stations. I wrote I don’t understand. I still don’t. That doesn’t mean I’m angry or blaming anyone. It means I don’t understand. Is there something I’m missing?
Lol I didn't make the ruling.
I am of the same mind as you. Spread it out, not concentrate it for safety purposes.
This whole year is an anomaly and some people will take an advantage of that. Politicians, employers, people no one is exempt from greed.
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-22-2020
(06-22-2020, 06:59 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: They did authorize mail in voting for the Kentucky primary though, right?
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/22/kentucky-officials-refute-primary-voter-suppression-claims/3235183001/
I don't think this is voter suppression, to be honest. At least not on the part of the Republicans. I would be interested in seeing if this were an attempt to suppress primary voters for Charles Booker, who is a popular progressive who is challenging McGrath for the Democratic nomination. That would be the story here, if there was one, in my opinion and would align with the idea that Beshear, a pretty centrist Democrat, would want to suppress the African American population.
Not saying he is or that anyone is, but I'm not buying that this is Republican voter suppression.
At least not at the moment.
winner! Finally someone that sees why the Dems did it. But somehow it still got blamed on Republicans.
RE: mail in voting - GMDino - 06-22-2020
(06-22-2020, 08:44 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Who cares how Trump votes, but at least he does vote. It has very little bearing on the conversation, other than some special meaning to you..
You simply didn't address a single thing I said.
Trump should care. He believes it cause massive fraud.
You should care. You believe it just ripe for fraud.
Both of you oppose mail in voting and Trump uses it himself.
There is nothing to address. The man who uses mail in voting, who has an administration that uses mail in voting, should have no problem with you ro me using mail in voting.
But he doesn't want you or me to do it. I wonder why that is?
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-22-2020
(06-22-2020, 08:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Pence and his wife voted by mail in Indiana using the Indiana governor's mansion address, which is not his legal address.
https://www.businessinsider.com/vice-president-pence-voted-by-mail-in-indiana-gop-primary-2020-6
It's actually legal for him to do this under Indiana law as they allow any elected official (and I guess their family) to vote absentee and use their old address (even if that address is the governor's mansion). Pence does not own a home in either DC or Indiana.
I don't think there's an issue with him voting this way, but it certainly continues to undercut the criticism of mail in ballots from the administration as more and more members are being revealed as having a history of voting by mail.
I bet most State/Fed politicians user mail in. Most have no clue where they will be on Vote day.
Local votes like for city Mayor, probably not so much.
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-22-2020
(06-22-2020, 09:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: Trump should care. He believes it cause massive fraud.
You should care. You believe it just ripe for fraud.
Both of you oppose mail in voting and Trump uses it himself.
There is nothing to address. The man who uses mail in voting, who has an administration that uses mail in voting, should have no problem with you ro me using mail in voting.
But he doesn't want you or me to do it. I wonder why that is?
He never said don't use mail in voting. He is saying if you can get out and vote to do so and don't rely on mail in voting because it is a high risk for being exploited.
Gods. This is like the "All Mexicans" thing all over again. Something that he never said but media is taking his words out of context and feeding that to you and your biting.
RE: mail in voting - Nately120 - 06-22-2020
(06-22-2020, 09:04 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: winner! Finally someone that sees why the Dems did it. But somehow it still got blamed on Republicans.
In my defense im just rolling my eyes at Trump preemptively calling the election rigged again.
RE: mail in voting - BmorePat87 - 06-22-2020
(06-22-2020, 09:04 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: winner! Finally someone that sees why the Dems did it. But somehow it still got blamed on Republicans.
You see my post about the blame being on individual counties and the bipartisan effort in the legislature to fix it?
RE: mail in voting - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 06-23-2020
(06-22-2020, 08:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Apples to Oranges. We aren't talking about getting benefits from Gov.
For Voting all you need is a photo ID.
Can be DL, State ID, Federal ID, Military ID, Passport, Employee ID, school ID and a few other types of Photo IDs are also acceptable.
Ofc there will always be a few exceptions from people. Record keeping etc. That's on the person to get fixed.
And i can guarantee most of them knew prior to an election about their problems. You cant fix stuff in the Gov 2 months prior to an election (like many of the stories I haver read about).The Gov is super slow about that. I know cause my last name is similar to a more common spelling, I've dealt with that all my life, so I have to make sure its spelled correctly in anything that uses my name.
I’m not talking about getting benefits from the government. I’m talking about healthcare. We accept the same IDs you listed.
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-23-2020
(06-23-2020, 12:20 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I’m not talking about getting benefits from the government. I’m talking about healthcare. We accept the same IDs you listed.
Not following what you have said.
Your initial statement said turned away because they lacked valid IDs as they should be. You cant just accept anyone that has a coverage card with out a valid id to use it. Coverage cards can be stolen as well.
Then I listed a bunch of Valid ID types and you said those are all valid types that are accepted.
If you are trying to say that people are turned away that do have a valid id that I listed, then just simply say that. I can't read your mind anymore than you can mine.
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-23-2020
(06-22-2020, 09:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You see my post about the blame being on individual counties and the bipartisan effort in the legislature to fix it?
yes, but I don't feel that is the reason it was done in the first place.
RE: mail in voting - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 06-23-2020
(06-23-2020, 02:09 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Not following what you have said.
Your initial statement said turned away because they lacked valid IDs as they should be. You cant just accept anyone that has a coverage card with out a valid id to use it. Coverage cards can be stolen as well.
Then I listed a bunch of Valid ID types and you said those are all valid types that are accepted.
If you are trying to say that people are turned away that do have a valid id that I listed, then just simply say that. I can't read your mind anymore than you can mine.
It’s not an apples to oranges comparison. We accept all those IDs you listed and turn people away because they don’t have any of them.
You said you’ve never known anyone who didn’t have a valid ID and I encounter them weekly.
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-23-2020
(06-23-2020, 04:13 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It’s not an apples to oranges comparison. We accept all those IDs you listed and turn people away because they don’t have any of them.
You said you’ve never known anyone who didn’t have a valid ID and I encounter them weekly.
Ok. I'm with you now.
How many? And seems like a bad idea, cause no matter where you go to cash a payroll check, a valid photo id is needed.
Are they illegals?
Are they on welfare or getting medic care/aid via state/fed? Ids expired? Cause you can use bank card as a secondary.
What type of issues do you run into and how frequently compared to the total number of patients you see?
RE: mail in voting - CJD - 06-23-2020
(06-22-2020, 09:04 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: winner! Finally someone that sees why the Dems did it. But somehow it still got blamed on Republicans.
I'm not saying that the Dems did it. I'm just saying Republicans have basically no incentive to suppress a primary vote where the biggest ticket item is McGrath vs Booker (they'll save their suppression for the General Election
).If the Dems did do it, which I cannot say they did or did not, I think the rationale would be to ensure McGrath gets the nomination. She's the Joe Biden of that Senate race. The "safe choice."
If anything, you would think the Republicans would want a bunch of people voting and Booker getting the nomination because Booker would be a longer shot to beat McConnell in a conservative state like Kentucky.
RE: mail in voting - fredtoast - 06-23-2020
(06-22-2020, 09:34 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Gods. This is like the "All Mexicans" thing all over again. Something that he never said but media is taking his words out of context and feeding that to you and your biting.
You are the one who is clueless about "context".
The "context" of Trump's opposition to mail in voting is that voter suppression benefits Republicans and multiple Republicans have admitted that supressing the vote benefits them.
The "context" regarding voter fraud is that the biggest most recent case of voter fraud benefitted the Republicans in the Ninth district of North Carolina. So why would Trump be concerned about voter fraud when the only recent evidence is that voter fraud benefits Republicans more than Deomcrats.
RE: mail in voting - BmorePat87 - 06-23-2020
(06-23-2020, 02:26 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: yes, but I don't feel that is the reason it was done in the first place.
I assumed you were genuine in addressing this topic after calling people out for ignoring facts. I guess it was just the same partisanship as those only blaming the GOP
RE: mail in voting - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 06-23-2020
(06-23-2020, 07:38 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ok. I'm with you now.
How many? And seems like a bad idea, cause no matter where you go to cash a payroll check, a valid photo id is needed.
Are they illegals?
Are they on welfare or getting medic care/aid via state/fed? Ids expired? Cause you can use bank card as a secondary.
What type of issues do you run into and how frequently compared to the total number of patients you see?
How many? At least one each week, but that’s just the ones I overhear arguing at the front desk.
Are they illegal? Probably not. I suspect the one thing they have in common is they are poor.
Do they get Welfare? We don’t check. We require proof of insurane and picture ID.
Do they receive Medicare/Medicaid? Don’t know. Without ID we don’t bother checking insurance benefits because we can’t verify they are the insured.
Types of issues? Just arguments because they can’t be seen which increases wait times for others.
How frequent? Weekly that I know of, but probably more frequently.
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-23-2020
(06-23-2020, 11:57 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I assumed you were genuine in addressing this topic after calling people out for ignoring facts. I guess it was just the same partisanship as those only blaming the GOP
Never said GOP won't do something that benefits them. But they are not alone.
This is only the Primaries. I want to see how each state will handle this so we can get a idea how the Nov polls will be handled
RE: mail in voting - BmorePat87 - 06-23-2020
(06-23-2020, 03:20 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Never said GOP won't do something that benefits them. But they are not alone.
This is only the Primaries. I want to see how each state will handle this so we can get a idea how the Nov polls will be handled
I sincerely do not want to put words in your mouth, it just came off to me like you were finding a way to flip this from "boo GOP" to "boo Democrats" when both sides at the state level seem to agree that these county officials, regardless of party, are causing the issues.
Your post actually made me do some more research to see how each side was addressing it and I piggybacked on yours to join in on the narrative that this wasn't just the GOP (but that it also wasn't the Democrats either).
RE: mail in voting - Mike M (the other one) - 06-23-2020
(06-23-2020, 11:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You are the one who is clueless about "context".
The "context" of Trump's opposition to mail in voting is that voter suppression benefits Republicans and multiple Republicans have admitted that supressing the vote benefits them.
The "context" regarding voter fraud is that the biggest most recent case of voter fraud benefitted the Republicans in the Ninth district of North Carolina. So why would Trump be concerned about voter fraud when the only recent evidence is that voter fraud benefits Republicans more than Deomcrats.
Clueless lib parrot. CNN 4 life!
Show me where Trump said he supports voter suppression. Not his aide. Words directly from Trump himself. Dem fluff pieces don't work either.
Also voter fraud doesn't matter which side did it or it favored. It's still voter fraud. You named an incident in NC, I can name one in WV where a mail carrier was arrested.
I think 100% mail in voting is bad. If people don't have a simple photo id for in person voting, then what makes you think that their address is going to be correct in the system?
Here is the problem.
In person. You check in get.your ballot and after scan it. Done, unless there is an error you need to fix, which you are notified of right away. Your paper ballot then goes into a stack in case a recount is needed. And technically, isn't touch again.
Mail in.
Gov sends everyone a ballot. Addresses will not be always correct. So thousands won't even have an option to vote.
Next. Mail carrier has to deliver it, you fill it out. Send it back. Mail carrier picks it up. Gets sorted and goes thru mail again where another mail carrier delivers it to another place where I guess it is scanned and if incomplete it is either rejected or another person fills in the blanks for you based on their interpretation. And we know everyone is honest right? Now if your ballot is outright rejected, you are not even informed. So your vote didn't even matter.
Bottom line: mail ins are touched multiple times by strangers and at any of those points something can happen.
Personally, I don’t believe mail-in ballots give either party a major advantage. Sure based on demographics of certain areas, but thats counter balanced by demographics in another area. It's not decided by popular vote in US, its based on EC. Red states will likely stay red and same with blue. The swing states are the ones that matter the most.
Many countries require some sort of proof to vote. So I don't see why its a big deal for the US to require it either.