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Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +--- Thread: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases (/Thread-Those-drunk-on-their-own-can-t-be-considered-mentally-incapacitated-in-rape-cases) Pages:
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Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - GMDino - 03-27-2021 I'm be lying if I said this decision surprised me at all. https://www.businessinsider.com/court-says-incapacitated-doesnt-apply-person-got-drunk-on-own-2021-3 Quote:Those who get drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases, Minnesota Supreme Court says That this "loophole" even exists is a farce. That it was never closed when people KNOW it exists is worse. But I'll wait patiently for the "real men" to defend raping this woman passed out drunk because they didn't break the law. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Belsnickel - 03-27-2021 This is quite possibly the most stupid thing I've seen out of a court. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - fredtoast - 03-27-2021 It is simple when the victim is unconscious. That is obviously rape. It is simple when the victim is drugged without knowing it. But what if a woman makes her own decision to get drunk and then agrees to have sex with you? That is where the law gets tricky. Should you be charged with rape when the victim agreed to have sex? RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - NATI BENGALS - 03-27-2021 https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/732852170/supreme-court-affirms-police-can-draw-blood-from-unconscious-drivers The gov can probe you and steal your blood too RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Benton - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 10:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is simple when the victim is unconscious. That is obviously rape. Yeah I'm not seeing why this decision was made. If they're unconscious, it's rape. If they're awake and say no (which she did), then it's rape. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Dill - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 12:39 PM)Benton Wrote: Yeah I'm not seeing why this decision was made. If they're unconscious, it's rape. If they're awake and say no (which she did), then it's rape. Maybe the judge is thinking along an analogy to drinking and driving. If you are driving while drunk you are still responsible if you hit someone with a car. You can't plead "I was incapacitated." YOU took the risk and assumed responsibility for it when you started drinking. Same in this case: the woman assumed the risk of drinking and therefore the responsibility for what happened after she got drunk. If you fudge over some differences between perps and victims of crimes, the analogy is perfect. I don't see how the legal argument can be limited to forced sex. For anyone who has been accused of robbing someone who's drunk, this looks like a good precedent, as the drunk person is now responsible for letting you do whatever you do to him/her. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - BigPapaKain - 03-27-2021 The GoP plays life like Dungeons and Dragons - if you're unconscious, you're considered willing (that's an actual rule in D&D; it's mostly used for resisting magic but you can probably figure out the joke). RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Nately120 - 03-27-2021 Better stay sober when those Mexican rapists get here, ladies. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - SunsetBengal - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 12:39 PM)Benton Wrote: Yeah I'm not seeing why this decision was made. If they're unconscious, it's rape. If they're awake and say no (which she did), then it's rape. Blacked out and passed out are two different things. Regained consciousness could mean anything from awaking from a sleep, to suddenly coming to one's senses while in a drunken state. The way that the article is written, it seems to lead one to believe that she was perhaps passed out, but they didn't say that, they said "blacked out", which could mean something different. From my own college experiences, I know that I drank until I couldn't remember, then walked about 2 miles to my girlfriend's place, had relations; Then woke up the next morning asking "Did you come and get me?". She told me, "No, you got here on auto pilot". Thankfully her and I got along, and all was harmless. However, just because someone willingly got drunk or took drugs should not entitle them to blanket protections. I mean, when you drink and drive, commit acts of violence or other crimes while inebriated, you're still responsible. Why protection for a drunken sexual escapade? RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Belsnickel - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 10:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is simple when the victim is unconscious. That is obviously rape. It's definitely difficult. I deal with these cases for my university and we often find students "not responsible" because of this sort of issue, and we're using a preponderance level rather than beyond-a-reasonable-doubt. We ask a lot of questions related to what the responding party (the suspect) saw. Did they see the reporting party (victim) drinking? How much? Did they observe outward signs of intoxication? Could they have reasonably known the reporting party was inebriated to the point where consent could not be given? That's a lot to figure out and we fall short on saying yes to all of those more often than not. All of that being said, just because a reporting party chose to drink or chose to do drugs, that doesn't mean they consented to sexual activity. Consent for one action does not, and should not, equal consent for another, separate action. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Dill - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 07:27 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Blacked out and passed out are two different things. Regained consciousness could mean anything from awaking from a sleep, to suddenly coming to one's senses while in a drunken state. The way that the article is written, it seems to lead one to believe that she was perhaps passed out, but they didn't say that, they said "blacked out", which could mean something different. The article uses the term "blacked out," but then "woke up." That implies she lost consciousness or was at least incapacitated enough not to give consent. Then "passed out" again after withholding consent. Would you say a drunk and incapacitated person falls outside of legal protection then? I'm just wondering why, in the above case, the protection is for the person committing the crime rather than the victim --i.e., the "driver" following your drink-and-drive analogy, not the person who was run over. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - SunsetBengal - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 08:18 PM)Dill Wrote: The article uses the term "blacked out," but then "woke up." That implies she lost consciousness or was at least incapacitated enough not to give consent. Then "passed out" again after withholding consent. Article also says she was denied entry to a bar, for being visibly intoxicated. Are people allowed to be in public while visibly intoxicated? I can't say in this case, but everywhere I've ever lived had laws against public intoxication. So, it she was publicly intoxicated, and got that way on her own volition, how does that deserve protections over a sober person? For all we know, she may have completely agreed to sex, and then was shocked when she came to, and saw who it was with. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Belsnickel - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 08:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Article also says she was denied entry to a bar, for being visibly intoxicated. Are people allowed to be in public while visibly intoxicated? I can't say in this case, but everywhere I've ever lived had laws against public intoxication. If she was visibly intoxicated, though, then the person who slept with her should have known she was incapable of informed consent to sex. So why should the sober person get protections for taking advantage of someone like that? A child will get charged for a crime if they go joy riding in a car, and an adult will get charged with a crime for having sex with a child. Both of those are because the child lacks the cognitive abilities to drive or give consent. The same is true for an intoxicated person. They are unable to reason at the level of a sober person. So just like a child, it is illegal for them to drive and it is illegal for someone to have sex with them because informed consent is not possible. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - SunsetBengal - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 08:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If she was visibly intoxicated, though, then the person who slept with her should have known she was incapable of informed consent to sex. So why should the sober person get protections for taking advantage of someone like that? Perhaps the male was drunk too, thus impairing his decision making ability, as well? RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Belsnickel - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 09:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Perhaps the male was drunk too, thus impairing his decision making ability, as well? And in those cases I don't think they can be charged. How we look at it with our policies is that if the responding party was also intoxicated, then it wasn't likely that they could have known the reporting party was incapacitated. Just like when two kids have sex, there generally aren't any charges filed. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - michaelsean - 03-27-2021 (03-27-2021, 05:33 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: The GoP plays life like Dungeons and Dragons - if you're unconscious, you're considered willing (that's an actual rule in D&D; it's mostly used for resisting magic but you can probably figure out the joke). Is that just a reflex response? What does the GOP have to do with it? RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - michaelsean - 03-28-2021 Sounds like someone is going to try to change the wording at least. Unconscious is rape. One drunk and one sober I guess would need more details. If they are both drunk then it’s mutual rape or nothing. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - Benton - 03-28-2021 (03-27-2021, 07:27 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Blacked out and passed out are two different things. Regained consciousness could mean anything from awaking from a sleep, to suddenly coming to one's senses while in a drunken state. The way that the article is written, it seems to lead one to believe that she was perhaps passed out, but they didn't say that, they said "blacked out", which could mean something different. Agreed on the bla let protections but in this instance: if someone is no responsive, that's rape. Also, if they wake up and say no, still rape. Dude is rapey. Granted, maybe I'm biased. I've got a daughter. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - michaelsean - 03-28-2021 (03-27-2021, 09:24 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'm be lying if I said this decision surprised me at all. I don’t think it’s a loophole as much as their just wasn’t a law about it on the books. The law probably wasn’t written with this in mind. I guess you could say they were slow to create a law that covers intoxication. RE: Those drunk on their own can't be considered 'mentally incapacitated' in rape cases - BigPapaKain - 03-28-2021 (03-27-2021, 11:04 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Is that just a reflex response? What does the GOP have to do with it? With this particular case? Minimal input. With women's rights and normalizing rape in general? They're at the front line spewing this kind of bullshit, giving it footholds to build on. |