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+--- Thread: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine (/Thread-Russia-begins-moving-troops-into-eastern-Ukraine)
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Belsnickel - 02-28-2022
WeezyBengal ' Wrote: I wouldn't be surprised by a ceasefire here soon. Part of me thinks he's in too deep to just turn around, though. That would be a gigantic blow to his ego as well.
I would be surprised. Did you see who he sent to the talks? ***** Culture Minister. He isn't taking peace talks seriously.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Bengalzona - 03-01-2022
(02-28-2022, 11:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I would be surprised. Did you see who he sent to the talks? ***** Culture Minister. He isn't taking peace talks seriously.
He is going to test the defenses of the main cities first, especially Kiev. If he were able to take Kiev, then he would have his 'trophy' to showoff to his supporters and more negotiating power. Then, he would take negotiations more seriously. Unfortunately, he will not even consider leaving at this point without some sort of "prize". He is a gambler, like most severe narcissists, and he very much plays it "all or nothing".
When he does get serious about negotiating, I can guarantee that one of his demands is that the Zelensky admin step down. He wants to put his own person in power. That's going to make any negotiation a non-starter.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Matt_Crimson - 03-01-2022
(02-28-2022, 08:03 PM)basballguy Wrote: I don't mean this question to sound obnoxious but do you know why Russia is invading Ukraine? I feel like if you understood Putin's logic (however wrong it is), then common sense would prevail and you would not fear a nuclear bomb being deployed.
Seems like a pretty fair question to me. Considering there's been about 15 different reasons why Putin is invading Ukraine and his "logic" seems to be all over the place, I'm not sure what to believe regarding the "actual" reason. Or perhaps it's a combination of them?
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 03-01-2022
(02-28-2022, 09:05 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: It's going to go lower.
BUY NOW!
This war won't go on for ever.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - KillerGoose - 03-01-2022
Belarus has officially joined in on the invasion, according to Ukrainian officials. Troops crossed the border into Ukraine earlier today.
https://www.politico.eu/article/belarus-russia-war-ukraine/
Lukashenko is currently denying it.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 03-01-2022
(02-28-2022, 05:15 PM)basballguy Wrote: So now that it's not about Trump, Russia sucks at disinformation and propaganda?
Not sure of the point you are making here, so my answer may skew.
Normally, Russia DOESN'T suck at disinformation and propaganda.
Till now, they've been better than anyone. The world masters. Think of their RT showing a foolish Trump leading the Russian Ambassador around the Oval Office, taking T's own security by surprise and excluding our own press as he shares classified intel entrusted to us by the Israelis, or T standing on the world stage at Helsinki, going against his our own CIA/FBI to exonerate Putin from election interference on Trump's behalf. That could be the greatest coup in the history of dis-ops, sending shudders down the backs of US allies.
But within the last year, and especially the last two weeks, they have done a miserable job, likely meaning that Putin is coming unhinged and not listening to his own advisors. Doubtful he can even convince his own United Russia Party that a few miserable neo-fascists control Ukraine and he is "liberating" it.
So I am reading this rather sudden drop in disinformation quality symptomatically, as indication the propaganda machine is working normally, is in disarray.
The US, Europe, and Ukraine are taking advantage of this, and have in fact pre-empted much of it. Something they have done right.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 03-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 12:09 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Belarus has officially joined in on the invasion, according to Ukrainian officials. Troops crossed the border into Ukraine earlier today.
https://www.politico.eu/article/belarus-russia-war-ukraine/
Lukashenko is currently denying it.
I'd say they joined it when they allowed Russia to mass its military in Belarus and then strike Ukraine from their territory.
They need to feel the sanctions as well.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Arturo Bandini - 03-01-2022
This is not even a joke.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Bengalzona - 03-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 12:17 PM)Dill Wrote: Not sure of the point you are making here, so my answer may skew.
Normally, Russia DOESN'T suck at disinformation and propaganda.
Till now, they've been better than anyone. The world masters. Think of their RT showing a foolish Trump leading the Russian Ambassador around the Oval Office, taking T's own security by surprise and excluding our own press as he shares classified intel entrusted to us by the Israelis, or T standing on the world stage at Helsinki, going against his our own CIA/FBI to exonerate Putin from election interference on Trump's behalf. That could be the greatest coup in the history of dis-ops, sending shudders down the backs of US allies.
But within the last year, and especially the last two weeks, they have done a miserable job, likely meaning that Putin is coming unhinged and not listening to his own advisors. Doubtful he can even convince his own United Russia Party that a few miserable neo-fascists control Ukraine and he is "liberating" it.
So I am reading this rather sudden drop in disinformation quality symptomatically, as indication the propaganda machine is working normally, is in disarray.
The US, Europe, and Ukraine are taking advantage of this, and have in fact pre-empted much of it. Something they have done right.
Yup. I suspect that after several years of it, our society has gotten a lot better at spotting and defending against it. I also suspect that supporters of some former politicians seek any way possible to shoehorn their names into any conversation in order to avoid facing the reality that they have become irrelevant.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Matt_Crimson - 03-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 12:20 PM)Dill Wrote: I'd say they joined it when they allowed Russia to mass its military in Belarus and then strike Ukraine from their territory.
They need to feel the sanctions as well.
Absolutely. Belarus declared war at the same time Russia did.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 03-01-2022
(02-28-2022, 05:59 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: There is a lot less American GOP party members sitting over in Europe reading Facebook/Twitter and watching foxnews. You know, the ones most likely to take the bait.
LOL Amerocentrism. Agreed.
Safe to say that the less one knows about the history of Ukraine-Russia relations, the more susceptible one is to arguments that Putin invaded BECAUSE of Obama or Biden, or DIDN'T invade because of Trump.
For people living in Eastern Europe, the immediate material economic and political causes driving Ukrainian elections, economic and foreign policy, etc. are sufficient causes for Putin's behavior since 2004. E.g., in 2014, people in the region would have been looking to the ouster of Yanukovych in favor of an EU oriented gov., refusal of the new government to renew naval base leases to Russia, proposals to demote Russian language from its status as "official" along with Ukrainian, and refusal of ethnic Russians to recognize the new president to explain the Crimean/Donbas invasions, not Obama's re-election.
Last night Hannity was placing responsibility for the invasion directly on the back of Joe Biden, and the supposed Dem caution in re-arming the Ukraine under Obama and Biden. That's going to be the mantra going forward--Trump armed them, Biden/Obama did not, and so Putin saw his opportunity in their "weakness." He has dropped the "3-dimensional chess" claim though, or at least has stopped making it.
Tucker, who a few days ago was asking "why are we supposed to hate Putin?" now seems to have figured that out and is condemning him--along with those Democrats who were accusing Repubs of aiding and comforting the enemy when Americans should all be united in condemning Putin. Commercial break, then back to condemning Biden and Dems for enabling Putin.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 03-01-2022
(02-28-2022, 07:07 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Please don't spoil that thread with your childish posts. Make one of your own.
We don't give a shit about Trump and Biden. This is serious matter.
Arturo, I understand your frustration here.
Positing Biden or Trump elections as immediate causes of Putin behavior is not very illuminating, and must sound incredibly ethnocentric to Europeans not aligned with US political parties.
However, in this country we are sometimes forced to address disinformation regarding the causes of such conflicts in hopes of keeping our own electorate accurately informed. How we understand the causes of Putin's invasion, determining the nature and degree of US accountability, will play an important role in our upcoming elections, so I think it important to keep placing the historical record alongside currently developing "party-centric" interpretations of the invasion and the lead up to it. Sometimes we have to talk about Trump and Biden to do that.
I don't assume that my GOP friends cannot be reasoned with in these matters, so long as I remain open to their arguments too.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - HarleyDog - 03-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 11:49 AM)Dill Wrote: BUY NOW!
This war won't go on for ever.
Too soon. Russia has not yet fully felt the pain.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Arturo Bandini - 03-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 02:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Arturo, I understand your frustration here.
Positing Biden or Trump elections as immediate causes of Putin behavior is not very illuminating, and must sound incredibly ethnocentric to Europeans not aligned with US political parties.
However, in this country we are sometimes forced to address disinformation regarding the causes of such conflicts in hopes of keeping our own electorate accurately informed. How we understand the causes of Putin's invasion, determining the nature and degree of US accountability, will play an important role in our upcoming elections, so I think it important to keep placing the historical record alongside currently developing "party-centric" interpretations of the invasion and the lead up to it. Sometimes we have to talk about Trump and Biden to do that.
I don't assume that my GOP friends cannot be reasoned with in these matters, so long as I remain open to their arguments too.
Don't misunderstand me.
You can talk about it but you know, there are some levels of talking.
Interrupting an existent thread on war with some stupid pictures and memes ( quoting : hilarious ... ) on the fence of a 3rd World War is a little too much for me.
It's not a rivalry, it's not a game.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 03-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 02:36 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Don't misunderstand me.
You can talk about it but you know, there are some levels of talking.
Interrupting an existent thread on war with some stupid pictures and memes ( quoting : hilarious ... ) on the fence of a 3rd World War is a little too much for me.
It's not a rivalry, it's not a game.
Yes, I understand.
Memes don't usually help us think through an issue (though I am not saying that is impossible).
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - CKwi88 - 03-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 02:36 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Don't misunderstand me.
You can talk about it but you know, there are some levels of talking.
Interrupting an existent thread on war with some stupid pictures and memes ( quoting : hilarious ... ) on the fence of a 3rd World War is a little too much for me.
It's not a rivalry, it's not a game.
It most certainly is not. How is the sentiment in Europe at the moment? My Spanish co-worker just returned from his holiday to Spain still in disbelief and my Polish colleague is quite distressed.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Arturo Bandini - 03-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 05:24 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: It most certainly is not. How is the sentiment in Europe at the moment? My Spanish co-worker just returned from his holiday to Spain still in disbelief and my Polish colleague is quite distressed.
Well, we take it seriously, very serioulsy.
Our RW were with Putin ( you know ... patriots ) but now we don't hear from them much.
We stand united for the moment.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - StrictlyBiz - 03-02-2022
Some interesting points here. I'm not one to buy into claims of ulterior sinister motives, like NATO wants Ukraine to join so that they have to buy equipment, but I do understand Russia's position on NATO expansion. Also, not sure about how much responsibility we bear for the unrest in the Donbas region or the depth of our support for the Ukrainian coup in 2013 and the coups impact on unrest in the Donbas region and the atrocities that go with it. But I find it good practice to try to understand all sides.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 03-02-2022
(03-02-2022, 12:55 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Some interesting points here. I'm not one to buy into claims of ulterior sinister motives, like NATO wants Ukraine to join so that they have to buy equipment, but I do understand Russia's position on NATO expansion. Also, not sure about how much responsibility we bear for the unrest in the Donbas region or the depth of our support for the Ukrainian coup in 2013 and the coups impact on unrest in the Donbas region and the atrocities that go with it. But I find it good practice to try to understand all sides.
Jimmy Dore? He's less reliable than Joke Rogan. Talk about Rabbit holes.
Around 9:15 "I can't show that video on YouTube because they'll de-monetize the video" pretty much says it all about this shit.
If he wanted to prove his point, put the alleged video up separately by itself so it could be used as evidence?
Money. He's a failed comedian and this is his new schtick. He's about as authentic as Diamond and Silk.
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - StrictlyBiz - 03-02-2022
(03-02-2022, 06:08 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Jimmy Dore? He's less reliable than Joke Rogan. Talk about Rabbit holes.
Around 9:15 "I can't show that video on YouTube because they'll de-monetize the video" pretty much says it all about this shit.
If he wanted to prove his point, put the alleged video up separately by itself so it could be used as evidence?
Money. He's a failed comedian and this is his new schtick. He's about as authentic as Diamond and Silk.
For sure. The YT algorithm started suggesting his videos to me a few days ago, so Im not 100% sure about him. Tons of charlatans out there. And that's why I take everything with a huge grain of salt. I am not endorsing what he's saying but trying to understand another perspective, even if the info is coming from him.
And D&S lol. Those two were atrocious. Their schtick where the one would talk real fast and the other would go "mmm hmm" was pathetic. Fox should be embarrassed putting them on. Do they even still?