(07-06-2023, 12:24 PM)pally Wrote: 5-month fetuses are not full-term.  

And I don't know of ANY Democrat who has advocated for a full-term healthy fetus to be aborted.  I hear conservatives make that claim all the time but they run when asked for proof of actual advocacy by Democrats.  This goes back to only listening to conservatives telling you what Democrats think instead of listening to regular Democrats telling you what they think.

(07-11-2023, 09:41 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I have 2 children.  I have seen many ultrasounds at different stages of pregnancy.  5 months is ABSOLUTELY a baby.  

Why people think it is ok to dismember and pull/suck out a live, healthy baby while it fights for it's life is truly and utterly disgusting.

Then I have to watch the same people cry about someone being "mis-gendered".  Truly baffling.

(07-11-2023, 09:41 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I have 2 children.  I have seen many ultrasounds at different stages of pregnancy.  5 months is ABSOLUTELY a baby.  

Why people think it is ok to dismember and pull/suck out a live, healthy baby while it fights for it's life is truly and utterly disgusting.

Then I have to watch the same people cry about someone being "mis-gendered".  Truly baffling.

(07-11-2023, 12:20 PM)pally Wrote: with brains, hearts, and lungs not developed enough to sustain life outside the womb

Why is the infant more important than the woman carrying it?

(07-11-2023, 12:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If the mother is in danger, no doubt save her first. If the woman is killing a viable baby at months and healthy, then the baby should not be punished for a bad sexual decision by the mother. Most if not all states have health, rape and incest in their laws to protect the mother.

If a woman decides she wants an abortion after 5 months, why not compromise. Induce labor and if the fetus is viable save them at the expense of the state. There are too many stories out there of doctors having to kill live babies because the mother wanted an abortion late term (5 months or later).

There has to come a point science gets involves to determine at what point the baby gets rights too.

(07-11-2023, 01:31 PM)jason Wrote: Interesting that you only lay the blame on the mother for a "bad sexual decision".

(07-11-2023, 12:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If the mother is in danger, no doubt save her first. If the woman is killing a viable baby at months and healthy, then the baby should not be punished for a bad sexual decision by the mother. Most if not all states have health, rape and incest in their laws to protect the mother.

If a woman decides she wants an abortion after 5 months, why not compromise. Induce labor and if the fetus is viable save them at the expense of the state. There are too many stories out there of doctors having to kill live babies because the mother wanted an abortion late term (5 months or later).

There has to come a point science gets involves to determine at what point the baby gets rights too.

(07-11-2023, 01:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Well since the father has no rights and the mother can do whatever she wants, yes if the mother did not want an option to be pregnant say NO

(07-11-2023, 01:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Well since the father has no rights and the mother can do whatever she wants, yes if the mother did not want an option to be pregnant say NO

(07-11-2023, 12:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If the mother is in danger, no doubt save her first. If the woman is killing a viable baby at months and healthy, then the baby should not be punished for a bad sexual decision by the mother. Most if not all states have health, rape and incest in their laws to protect the mother.

If a woman decides she wants an abortion after 5 months, why not compromise. Induce labor and if the fetus is viable save them at the expense of the state. There are too many stories out there of doctors having to kill live babies because the mother wanted an abortion late term (5 months or later).

There has to come a point science gets involves to determine at what point the baby gets rights too.

(07-11-2023, 01:53 PM)pally Wrote: Science and medicine not legislators should decide the question.  Legislators should concentrate on the non medical issues that lead to abortions

(07-11-2023, 03:25 PM)Foolishpride Wrote: Ummmm, not true.

How common are rape or incest exceptions in the new abortion bans?


We looked at 22 states where strict new abortion laws are, or are about to be, enforced.
Of those 22 states, 15 offer no exceptions for rape, incest, or both. Those states are Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia and Wisconsin.


15 states with new or impending abortion limits have no exceptions for rape, incest - Poynter

(07-11-2023, 05:57 PM)Leon Wrote: sure cause science is never wrong or biased or pressured or has agendas

(07-11-2023, 08:17 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Faucci told us for years the Covid virus did not come from the Wuhan lan, same lab he authorized millions of dollars to be used for experiments. Then Faucci used liberal media and social media to shut down the discussion of the origin on the virus.

Always follow the money, Faucci lied to us, it is a fact.

Quote:Domestic Violence Hotline Reports 99% Increase in Calls Post-Roe
The hotline told Jezebel how abortion bans are now in the "toolbox of abusive partners."
By
Kylie Cheung
PublishedFriday 3:00PM

Crystal Justice, chief external affairs officer for the National Domestic Violence Hotline, has heard a lot of gutting cases of domestic violence from hotline callers over the years. But since the Supreme Court overturned [i]Roe v. Wade[/i] last June, Justice told Jezebel that a few calls, in particular, have stood out to her—namely one woman who said her partner was intercepting her birth control pills after learning she was having them mailed to her. She eventually became pregnant but lived in a state where abortion is banned, and called the hotline desperate to learn her options.

Justice also heard from callers, post-[i]Roe, [/i]whose abusive partners have weaponized their states’ abortion laws, as well as the widespread confusion around the laws’ particularities, to confuse and control them. “We’ve seen abusive partners weaponize the possible criminality of accessing abortion, or wrongfully tell a victim that if they do access abortion, they themselves could go to jail, or they’ll report them to the police,” Justice said. (Pregnancy outcomes and self-managed abortion are heavily policed and can lead to criminal charges—but no abortion bans currently in effect criminalize the abortion patient.)

Anti-Sexual Violence Organizations Are Too Quiet About 'Roe v. Wade'

Overall, the National Domestic Violence Hotline said they’ve seen a 99% increase in calls from people saying their partners are trying to control their reproductive choices (which domestic violence experts call reproductive coercion) since [i]Roe [/i]was overturned. The hotline told Vice News that the year before [i]Roe[/i], they received 1,230 calls; in the year since, the hotline’s received 2,442

The jarring data suggests that while abortion bans are “in and of themselves state-based reproductive coercion,” as Justice puts it, they create the optimal conditions for reproductive coercion to be perpetrated by abusive partners, too. A famous study known as the Turnaway Study has found that people who are denied abortion care are at a significantly greater risk of long-term domestic violence. As anti-rape educator and activist Wagatwe Wanjuki told Jezebel last year, abortion bans are “an abuser’s dream.”

In May, a Texas woman was killed by her partner—who had a prior record of domestic violence—for getting an abortion, according to police. (A leading cause of death for pregnant people is homicide, often by intimate partners.) And last summer, a Missouri man was sentenced to life in prison for murdering his wife in 2019; before she went missing, she’d searched on her cell phone: “what to do if your husband is upset you are pregnant.”

[b]Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds Signs 6-Week AbortionBan at Evangelical Event[/b]


“With abortion bans, state laws have really put controlling someone’s access to reproductive health care in the toolbox of abusive partners,” Justice said. “We’ve really emboldened those who are causing harm to use reproductive coercion, to use the right to control one’s own body, as a means of harm.” Abortion and birth control, Justice emphasizes, are “absolutely necessary for survivors to pursue a path to a safer future without harm or violence.”

The stories of callers that Justice shared with Jezebel aren’t uncommon: 15% of women experiencing physical violence from a male partner have also reported birth control sabotage. The risk is greater for young people—a quarter of adolescent girls with an abusive male partner have reported their partner attempted to impregnate them by interfering with their contraception.



In 2021, California passed a law to add reproductive coercion to the state’s civil definition of domestic violence. Jane Stoever, a law professor and director of the University of California, Irvine’s Domestic Violence Clinic, told me at the time that she’s counseled numerous domestic violence victims who didn’t recognize acts of reproductive coercion from their partners were a form of abuse: “Reproductive coercion is typically not the only type of abuse experienced in a relationship in which intimate partner violence is present, and it can be challenging to reveal.”


Even before [i]Roe[/i] was overturned, abuse victims and survivors have always been uniquely harmed by anti-abortion laws, their bodies treated as political props for ongoing debates about rape exceptions that are often unhelpful in practice. Justice notes that while abortion rights supporters have expressed particular outrage with how many newly enacted abortion bans lack these exemptions, abortion care should be available to people “regardless of their abusive experience or lack of it.”


Last year, Jezebel reported on the relative silence among national domestic violence and rape advocacy organizations in the face of the fall of [i]Roe[/i]. The National Domestic Violence Hotline’s data shows, if anything, their work is more necessary than ever, reflecting the inseparability of reproductive and survivor injustice.

[i]The National Domestic Violence Hotline takes calls 24/7 at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233), or 1-800-799-7233 for TTY. If you cannot speak safely, you can log onto thehotline.org or text LOVEIS to 22522.[/i]

(07-11-2023, 05:57 PM)Leon Wrote: sure cause science is never wrong or biased or pressured or has agendas

(07-16-2023, 03:56 PM)Dill Wrote:
Right. It's about who is never wrong and doesn't have an agenda.

That's why we need to trust right wing politicians:

they are never wrong and don't have agendas. 

Trust them over doctors and scientists who, after all, can be wrong sometimes.

(07-16-2023, 03:56 PM)Dill Wrote:
Right. It's about who is never wrong and doesn't have an agenda.

That's why we need to trust right wing politicians:

they are never wrong and don't have agendas. 

Trust them over doctors and scientists who, after all, can be wrong sometimes.

(07-17-2023, 01:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The biggest scientific lie was perpetrated by Faucci. Sadly it was not one lie, there were numerous lies. He is not any scientist, he was supposed to be the top scientist. Did he have an agenda? Yes, we now know he did and surprise it was to cover for massive money being sent to Wuhan lab. Then, he lied about masks and plugged a vaccine we still don't know the long term consequences because they were not properly vetted.

Faucci convinced Democrats to lock down their churches, schools, businesses and quarantine for years. DeSantos saw through the Faucci BS and reopened Florida 12 months prior to NT, California and a lot of Democratic cities. Fast forward to now and kids are way behind in Democratic cities, crime is up and some cities like SF have become a shit hole. So n this case, a politician was correct as he ran his state using his experts who knew Faucci was full of crap and lied to us daily.