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+---- Thread: National Stats during Obama Admin (/Thread-National-Stats-during-Obama-Admin)
National Stats during Obama Admin - Bengalzona - 01-15-2017
A friend of mine posted this on Facebook. It is a personal test. You chart how you think the nation did in certain areas during the Obama years in certain categories like unemployment, healthcare spending, illegal immigrants, etc. Then, the website superimposes the actual figures on the chart.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/15/us/politics/you-draw-obama-legacy.html?smid=fb-share
It is pretty interesting and objective, IMO. I learned a few things.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - GMDino - 01-15-2017
(01-15-2017, 01:26 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: A friend of mine posted this on Facebook. It is a personal test. You chart how you think the nation did in certain areas during the Obama years in certain categories like unemployment, healthcare spending, illegal immigrants, etc. Then, the website superimposes the actual figures on the chart.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/15/us/politics/you-draw-obama-legacy.html?smid=fb-share
It is pretty interesting and objective, IMO. I learned a few things.
I was fairly close on most. WAY off on the troops and low on the deficit but neither was something I didn't know, just got the numbers really wrong.
I shared to Facebook to see if anyone even cares to learn about their perception versus the reality.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Nately120 - 01-15-2017
Data ain't nothing compared to what I know in my heart. Knowing a heart thinks, for starters.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - bfine32 - 01-15-2017
Got the crime one wrong; everything else pretty much on. I missed illegal Mexicans by less than 50,000
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Bengalzona - 01-15-2017
(01-15-2017, 03:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Got the crime one wrong; everything else pretty much on. I missed illegal Mexicans by less than 50,000
I was way off on the National Debt. I thought it was much lower. Lends credibility to what many in the right are saying, IMO.
But I was spot on on immigration, crime and unemployment.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Benton - 01-15-2017
Was pretty close on everything but the troops. I figured he had way more over there than was the case.
not really surprising. The last six were much better than the previous 8.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Rotobeast - 01-15-2017
I was off a little on immigration and the deportation one.
I was a little less off on the troops graph, but I could have sworn he had a "surge", before lowering the numbers.
The rest I was really surprised by how close I was.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Bengalzona - 01-15-2017
(01-15-2017, 10:08 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I was off a little on immigration and the deportation one.
I was a little less off on the troops graph, but I could have sworn he had a "surge", before lowering the numbers.
The rest I was really surprised by how close I was.
We had a surge in Afghanistan, but it was off-set by the drawdown in Iraq I believe.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Mike M (the other one) - 01-17-2017
So we're right back where we started with 8 years ago when Obama first took office for Unemployment.
I don't buy the Deported Immigrants part, he changed the way the numbers were calculated, and ever since then, his numbers has been much higher than previous numbers.
http://cis.org/ICE-Illegal-Immigrant-Deportations
The President himself confirmed this statistical manipulation in 2011, speaking at a roundtable for Hispanic reporters:
“The statistics are actually a little deceptive because what we’ve been doing is, with the stronger border enforcement, we’ve been apprehending folks at the borders and sending them back. That is counted as a deportation, even though they may have only been held for a day or 48 hours, sent back — that’s counted as a deportation.” he said.
For Medical Spending, we had a 4.3% variance from 2000 to 2008, from 2008 to 2012 we had a 1.8% variance. So that did improve there.
We all know that the number of Illegal Mexicans living in the US went down, heck their economy went up so why come here? But now that their economy is becoming unstable, they'll be back.
For the number of violent crimes, it is down, and lucky for him we don't have 2016 data yet (homicides is up).
Pulling Troops out too early allowed ISIS to move in. We left the 2 countries relatively unprotected. 2013 is when ISIS rebranded their name, in early 2014 is when they started taking cities (1st one Fallujah).
It was interesting though, thanks for the link.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 01-18-2017
(01-17-2017, 06:54 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Pulling Troops out too early allowed ISIS to move in. We left the 2 countries relatively unprotected. 2013 is when ISIS rebranded their name, in early 2014 is when they started taking cities (1st one Fallujah).
The withdrawal was negotiated during the Bush administration. The new Iraqi government wouldn't agree to a new status of forces agreement. Before ISIS was called ISIS they were part of the Iraqi insurgency. They took cities before 2014 just under a different banner. ISIS didn't "move in" we helped create them in situ as a direct response to the 2003 Iraqi invasion and post invasion decisions. How many times do we have to go over this?
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - GMDino - 01-18-2017
(01-18-2017, 06:02 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The withdrawal was negotiated during the Bush administration. The new Iraqi government wouldn't agree to a new status of forces agreement. Before ISIS was called ISIS they were part of the Iraqi insurgency. They took cities before 2014 just under a different banner. ISIS didn't "move in" we helped create them in situ as a direct response to the 2003 Iraqi invasion and post invasion decisions. How many times do we have to go over this?
Just until Friday when sudden;y every thing will be alright and the government won't make mistakes.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - BengalHawk62 - 01-18-2017
(01-18-2017, 07:53 AM)GMDino Wrote: Just until Friday when sudden;y every thing will be alright and the government won't make mistakes.
Yes. I'm taking Friday off, as I'm sure you are, to be glued to the tv to watch the Furor rise against the ashes to make Amerika great again.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - GMDino - 01-18-2017
(01-18-2017, 10:43 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Yes. I'm taking Friday off, as I'm sure you are, to be glued to the tv to watch the Furor rise against the ashes to make Amerika great again.
I'll be at work as usual...but I'll be watching on line as I have for the last two.
Should be fascinating!
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Mike M (the other one) - 01-18-2017
(01-18-2017, 06:02 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The withdrawal was negotiated during the Bush administration. The new Iraqi government wouldn't agree to a new status of forces agreement. Before ISIS was called ISIS they were part of the Iraqi insurgency. They took cities before 2014 just under a different banner. ISIS didn't "move in" we helped create them in situ as a direct response to the 2003 Iraqi invasion and post invasion decisions. How many times do we have to go over this?
So what if it was negotiated during the Bush Administration? Does Obama not have the power to renegotiate new terms as he sees fit and put the pressure on the new Iraqi government to keep the troops there until we feel that they have the situation under control?? We are the occupier, we are the ones that should decide when the New Government is ready to handle themselves, not them.
What cities did they take prior to the re-branding and/or Fallujah?
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 01-18-2017
(01-18-2017, 01:53 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So what if it was negotiated during the Bush Administration?
Gawd dayum! It matters because that's when we agreed to leave.
Quote:Does Obama not have the power to renegotiate new terms as he sees fit and put the pressure on the new Iraqi government to keep the troops there until we feel that they have the situation under control??
Sure, but as I have repeatedly explained to you the Iraqi government wouldn't sign a new status of forces agreement for the US to maintain troops in country legally.
Quote:We are the occupier, we are the ones that should decide when the New Government is ready to handle themselves, not them.
LMAO! You can't recognize Iraqi sovereignty by ignoring their sovereignty. It's funny how the right pays lip service to personal responsibility until people do something the disagree with then to hell with personal responsibility and it's, "Do what I say!"
Quote:What cities did they take prior to the re-branding and/or Fallujah?
Every single one controlled by the insurgency and not "coalition" forces. A simple Google search can answer your question.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Rotobeast - 01-18-2017
(01-18-2017, 07:53 AM)GMDino Wrote: Just until Friday when sudden;y every thing will be alright and the government won't make mistakes.LOL
Because of your post, I'm imagining a "Mission Accomplished" banner to unfurl, after completion of the oath.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Dill - 01-19-2017
(01-18-2017, 01:53 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So what if it was negotiated during the Bush Administration? Does Obama not have the power to renegotiate new terms as he sees fit and put the pressure on the new Iraqi government to keep the troops there until we feel that they have the situation under control?? We are the occupier, we are the ones that should decide when the New Government is ready to handle themselves, not them.
Two points on this:
1. Obama doesn't exactly have the power to renegotiate "as he sees fit" when Bush has already committed the US to a withdrawal timetable, and at the time about 90% of the public wants the withdrawal to occur, and the most pressing threat to the Iraqi government was internal--the Shia dominance of the government and military.
2. As occupiers who claim occupation is not their goal, the US cannot really behave like conquerors and looters. Also, if the new government is to have some legitimacy, it cannot be seen as a US puppet. That means it must appear to be able to decide for itself when it is ready to handle itself.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Mike M (the other one) - 01-19-2017
(01-19-2017, 05:54 PM)Dill Wrote: Two points on this:
1. Obama doesn't exactly have the power to renegotiate "as he sees fit" when Bush has already committed the US to a withdrawal timetable, and at the time about 90% of the public wants the withdrawal to occur, and the most pressing threat to the Iraqi government was internal--the Shia dominance of the government and military.
2. As occupiers who claim occupation is not their goal, the US cannot really behave like conquerors and looters. Also, if the new government is to have some legitimacy, it cannot be seen as a US puppet. That means it must appear to be able to decide for itself when it is ready to handle itself.
Is he the Commander in Chief or not? He absolutely has the power to change it based on Intel... oops Forgot he wasn't paying attention to those reports. Oh well never mind.
I understand about point 2, but if intel thinks they are not ready, then they are not ready.
Now with that understood, if the "insurgents" were busy taking over cities like oncemore was telling us, then we should've known that there was still a threat to the new Leadership and that they were not ready to handle that group.
Didn't one of the Generals advise that we leave at least 35k behind instead of pulling them all out?
He even stated that there were options and that they didn't have to leave if they didn't want to. Neither Bush nor Obama had much of an after war plan. If we are going to do something like this, we have to finish it and see it thru.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - Mike M (the other one) - 01-19-2017
(01-18-2017, 02:24 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Every single one controlled by the insurgency and not "coalition" forces. A simple Google search can answer your question.
You're gonna have to be more specific. All I see is cities that were taken by the insurgents after 2014 or how we drove them out of cities back in 2007 with a handful of bombings and mostly the setting up of a democracy in between those 2 dates.
RE: National Stats during Obama Admin - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 01-19-2017
(01-19-2017, 06:37 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Is he the Commander in Chief or not? He absolutely has the power to change it based on Intel... oops Forgot he wasn't paying attention to those reports. Oh well never mind.
I understand about point 2, but if intel thinks they are not ready, then they are not ready.
Now with that understood, if the "insurgents" were busy taking over cities like oncemore was telling us, then we should've known that there was still a threat to the new Leadership and that they were not ready to handle that group.
Didn't one of the Generals advise that we leave at least 35k behind instead of pulling them all out?
He even stated that there were options and that they didn't have to leave if they didn't want to. Neither Bush nor Obama had much of an after war plan. If we are going to do something like this, we have to finish it and see it thru.
We knew they weren't ready. Why do you think we were trying to negotiate a new status of forces agreement to delay the withdrawal of troops? Because we knew they weren't ready. Duh. Now, how can you force a sovereign government to sign an agreement to maintain foreign troops in their country against their wishes? You can't. Obviously.
(01-19-2017, 06:54 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You're gonna have to be more specific. All I see is cities that were taken by the insurgents after 2014 or how we drove them out of cities back in 2007 with a handful of bombings and mostly the setting up of a democracy in between those 2 dates.
Never heard of Fallujah?