Roe vs Wade vs SCOTUS legitimacy

[BigPapaKain]

(05-04-2022, 05:08 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It wasn't an answer.

Okie dokie artichokie.

[CKwi88]

(05-04-2022, 07:55 PM)michaelsean Wrote: That’s always a silly argument. I’m against murder, but I don’t feel obligated to support everyone who hasn’t been murdered. That and the country spends an enormous amount on children. Having  a difference of opinion on how much isn’t f*** you.

I guess when I see the radical right fight for affordable healthcare, affordable childcare, affordable contraception/family planning healthcare, state-guaranteed child support, universal pre-k, after-school placement, literally ANYTHING that actual presents a material benefit to children or mothers/expectant mothers, I'll believe it isn't a f*** you.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-04-2022, 10:56 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I guess when I see the radical right fight for affordable healthcare, affordable childcare, affordable contraception/family planning healthcare, state-guaranteed child support, universal pre-k, after-school placement, literally ANYTHING that actual presents a material benefit to children or mothers/expectant mothers, I'll believe it isn't a f*** you.  

I guess you want us to wipe their stinky butts too?

Some things you should do for your own if you want them to have an advantage over others.

[CKwi88]

(05-04-2022, 11:05 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I guess you want us to wipe their stinky butts too?

Some things you should do for your own if you want them to have an advantage over others.

I guess this would make sense if there weren't plenty of developed countries with these things in place. 

And the fact that you prioritize giving children advantages over others, rather than putting them on equal footing, is a pretty shite attitude. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-04-2022, 11:24 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I guess this would make sense if there weren't plenty of developed countries with these things in place. 

And the fact that you prioritize giving children advantages over others, rather than putting them on equal footing, is a pretty shite attitude. 

Name the ones that have a school system that is very similar to ours?
We would need to totally reform it to make it "equal footing".

If prioritizing my own child and doing what ever is necessary to give him a good education is a shite attitude, then so be it. How many times have you cooked home meals vs ordering Pizza, or rented movies/watch Netflix for movie night instead of going to the theater?? etc to pay for that pre-k school education to get them ready for school? How many times you been bone tired from working all day and still went to your kids games?

I'm curious as to how many that actually whoop and holler about equal footing, are actually involved in their kids daily lives and push them to do better in school. Home is where it starts.

[Vas Deferens]

Super morals out of this tool per usual.

GTFO

[Dill]

(05-05-2022, 12:22 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I'm curious as to how many that actually whoop and holler about equal footing, are actually involved in their kids daily lives and push them to do better in school. Home is where it starts.

I'd assume all of them were, as I was when my kids were school age. 

And "home" is where it would end for the majority, if we did not have a public school system.


Also, there is a lot more to educating kids than "pushing."

Insure they retain their natural love of learning and they'll look forward to school.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-05-2022, 01:20 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Super morals out of this tool per usual.

GTFO

Sorry life aint fair, those little utopian societies exist only in your head. Grow up.

(05-05-2022, 01:26 AM)Dill Wrote: I'd assume all of them were, as I was when my kids were school age. 

And "home" is where it would end for the majority, if we did not have a public school system.


Also, there is a lot more to educating kids than "pushing."

Insure they retain their natural love of learning and they'll look forward to school.

Which part of being an actively involved parent doesn't cover more than just "pushing"?
OFC there is more than just "pushing", You are much smarter than that Dill, play the semantics game with someone else.

[Dill]

(05-05-2022, 01:49 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Sorry life aint fair, those little utopian societies exist only in your head. Grow up.

Which part of being an actively involved parent doesn't cover more than just "pushing"?
OFC there is more than just "pushing", You are much smarter than that Dill, play the semantics game with someone else.

If you wonder whether parents concerned about equality of opportunity are really actively involved in their children's lives

then it is not clear what you mean by "actively involved," or by "good education."

[Belsnickel]

(05-04-2022, 04:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Just out of curiosity, and this probably deserves its own thread, but in what ways is it outdated that you feel should be addressed immediately?

It does deserve its own thread, and I think we have actually had threads on it before. Some of the immediate ones that come to mind, though, include improving representation in our government (we've tripled our population in the past century while the number of Congress members has stayed the same), working to democratize the federal government (this wasn't done because the size of the fed wasn't supposed to be this large, but modern needs require it), reworking amendments so they can take into account more modern technology and a post-industrial world.

Those are just a few things. I think a lot of people dismiss these out of hand but also express disappointment in the SCOTUS for their policy-making decisions from the bench when they don't go their way. The thing about it is that the further we get from the original document the more we will lean on the SCOTUS to make these sorts of rulings to define our rights and liberties. If we keep up with our Constitution and continually work to modernize it, then we aren't having to rely on an unelected body to tell us how a 230 year old document applies to the modern world.

[Belsnickel]

(05-05-2022, 01:49 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Sorry life aint fair, those little utopian societies exist only in your head. Grow up.

We don't need a utopian society, we just need one like what already exists in the rest of the developed world.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-04-2022, 10:56 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I guess when I see the radical right fight for affordable healthcare, affordable childcare, affordable contraception/family planning healthcare, state-guaranteed child support, universal pre-k, after-school placement, literally ANYTHING that actual presents a material benefit to children or mothers/expectant mothers, I'll believe it isn't a f*** you.  

Ok so if it’s not at the level you determine then it doesn’t exist. Democrats wanting to spend say 75% of what the Republicans want on the military is an eff you to the military because it’s less.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-05-2022, 07:10 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: We don't need a utopian society, we just need one like what already exists in the rest of the developed world.

Where? 
And what other rights do you forfeit by living there? Freedom of Speech? Freedom to own guns??

I know you are an avid gun lover, so Are you willing to give up your guns for better healthcare, schools for everyone?
Answer honestly, cause i know you'd "say" yes, but once push comes to shove, you'd tell people to shove off.

[Dill]

(05-05-2022, 09:58 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Where? 
And what other rights do you forfeit by living there? Freedom of Speech? Freedom to own guns??

I know you are an avid gun lover, so Are you willing to give up your guns for better healthcare, schools for everyone?
Answer honestly, cause i know you'd "say" yes, but once push comes to shove, you'd tell people to shove off.

This statement may be the clearest and most concise indicator I have ever read, of why the U.S. social safety net is so underdeveloped compared to Germany, Japan, France, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Switzerland.

Better health care and education for your children--or your GUNZ!!!  Choose my brothers!

"Push comes to shove," you gotta go with FREEDOM. 

However, parents with cancer-stricken children, desperately setting up "fund me" accounts or selling their homes to compensate for weak/nonexistent insurance coverage, may be inclined to think more deeply about what "freedom" means, especially wondering "WHOSE freedom, and to do WHAT?"  

They may even wonder--is it possible, in some "little utopian society," to have BOTH healthcare/education AND profits for gun manufacturers? 

Or is the risk to our freedom so great that we could end up forfeiting rights as they must in other countries without freedom, like Finland, Switzerland and North Korea? 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-05-2022, 02:55 AM)Dill Wrote: If you wonder whether parents concerned about equality of opportunity are really actively involved in their children's lives

then it is not clear what you mean by "actively involved," or by "good education."

You can get a good education from just about anywhere, but it's up to the parents to convey the importance of Education to their kids.

Each kid is different and needs different types of nurturing. Some need a more rigid organized structure setting, while others can thrive in a more free thinking environment. If you are actively involved in your child's life, then as a parent, you'll figure out what works best for your child. 

Anyways, we are de-railing the topic. if you guys want to discuss healthcare/education/parenting, then we need our own thread for that.

So back to the topic.
I have read that some countries are criticizing the decision to overturn it, yet, at the same time, we are one of the few countries with NO restrictions. Seems many do the first tri-mester abortions, but after, it requires extenuating circumstances in order to have one done after that.

[Belsnickel]

(05-05-2022, 09:58 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Where? 
And what other rights do you forfeit by living there? Freedom of Speech? Freedom to own guns??

I know you are an avid gun lover, so Are you willing to give up your guns for better healthcare, schools for everyone?
Answer honestly, cause i know you'd "say" yes, but once push comes to shove, you'd tell people to shove off.

That's a false choice. There is no need to give up any of those rights for a better social safety net.

Admittedly, that is my mistake for saying what we need is what exists in other places. However, the fact remains that we could improve the general welfare of our citizenry without giving up those civil liberties.

[*Nately120*]

(05-05-2022, 10:30 AM)Mike M  (the other one) Wrote: So back to the topic.
I have read that some countries are criticizing the decision to overturn it, yet, at the same time, we are one of the few countries with NO restrictions. Seems many do the first tri-mester abortions, but after, it requires extenuating circumstances in order to have one done after that.

Logical, but the whole covid thing has really pulled back the curtain on how our society handles restrictions.  Additionally, if we require medical circumstances to green light abortions, the same people who called for violence against medical professionals for the whole vaccine thing are going to approach every medical professional as a killer who lies in order to allow women to murder babies.

Normally I'd try not to let the insane minority dictate stuff like this, but they've been legitimized lately so it's hard to dismiss them.  I just can't help but picture a pregnant woman being watched like a hawk in case she might travel to a blue state or go to a doctor to get a fake excuses to get an abortion.  Then there is the nightmare of a woman having a miscarriage and everyone going after her for going from pregnant to having no baby and so on and so forth.

I guess it's hyperbole, but lordy in a few aspects I feel like we're gleefully waltzing back into the McCarthy era at best and the Salem witch trials at worst.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-05-2022, 10:28 AM)Dill Wrote: This statement may be the clearest and most concise indicator I have ever read, of why the U.S. social safety net is so underdeveloped compared to Germany, Japan, France, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Switzerland.

Better health care and education for your children--or your GUNZ!!!  Choose my brothers!

"Push comes to shove," you gotta go with FREEDOM. 

However parents with cancer-stricken children, desperately setting up "fund me" accounts or selling their homes to compensate for weak/nonexistent insurance coverage, may be inclined to think more deeply about what "freedom" means, especially wondering "WHOSE freedom, and to do WHAT?"  

They may even wonder--is it possible, in some "little utopian society," to have BOTH healthcare/education AND profits for gun manufacturers? 

Or is the risk to our freedom so great that we could end up forfeiting rights as they must in other countries without freedom, like Finland, Switzerland and North Korea? 

I could care less about Guns, but some like Bel enjoys owning them, and i will defend his rights to own them, just as I would hope he would defend my rights to something that the Gov would try put restrictions on that i enjoy that he doesn't care much about.

But you missed the point. No country is perfect. Until the people get extremely serious about changing the way things work, it's just going to remain as it is with a little change here and there to appease a few for votes.

I can't even fathom why you would list NK in there, is that some sort of inside sick joke? Do you think the people from that country wouldn't trade positions with you faster than Bels could pull a gun from his hip and give up all those advantages you seem to think they have over you?????

In the past, i have listed alot of ideas about how to reform (in details) adoptions, schools, immigration, healthcare, prisons and no idea what else, but still rather than discussing it, people attack it right away. So in the end, not much is accomplished. Look no further than this thread, i posted a middle ground to try to appease both sides, and only one person even commented on it. I guess the rest of you are just unwilling to compromise.

[*Nately120*]

Canada has healthcare and guns and the right to protest and stuff, doesn't it? Once you get used to 3 down football, I'd say you're set.

[StoneTheCrow]

(05-05-2022, 11:57 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Once you get used to 3 down football, I'd say you're set.

A lot of good discussions going on here. Let’s not venture off into bat-shittery.