Roe vs Wade vs SCOTUS legitimacy

[Vas Deferens]

SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!

bigpapakain vs nately120

DEATHMATCH!

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-05-2022, 02:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Buddy, I have looked at these issues more than probably anyone on these boards. I understand the tradeoffs. I have seen the analyses run. For instance, I know that for a single-payer healthcare system we would need to see a tax increase. However, when you take into account that you would no longer be paying the premiums to private insurance companies the majority of Americans would actually see a reduction in their out-of-pocket costs on a yearly basis. Some countries do have year long school, but their school days may be shorter or they may have programs that start at different points in the year.

I literally study policy. I've looked at these things a number of times. They are by no means my specialty so I can't speak on them like some others but I have read the works of the experts and seen the data while in classes on education policy and healthcare policy. I read white papers for fun. We are constantly coming up with ways to improve our systems in this country and there are many feasible ways to do it.

That's great, glad someone can see that besides myself.

Yep, tons of variables between countries on the Schooling side. I think the current system is doomed to fail, we need a massive overhaul to get it back on track.

Please share a link or examples, i enjoy reading and thinking on those type of things as well.

[*Nately120*]

(05-05-2022, 05:14 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!

bigpapakain vs nately120

DEATHMATCH!

Quite noteworthy that we could draw the heat away from a thread about abortion.

[*Nately120*]

(05-05-2022, 05:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: That's great, glad someone can see that besides myself.

Yep, tons of variables between countries on the Schooling side. I think the current system is doomed to fail, we need a massive overhaul to get it back on track.

Again, I may be going overboard with the doom and gloom, but I'm thinking our education system is designed to fail.  I can't see anyone trying to fix our education system when it is so much more profitable to continue to break it.  

[BFritz21]

(05-05-2022, 04:34 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Source?

I can't find the original source that I saw it on but here's a survey from a pregnancy care clinic:

Quote:

• They lacked money to raise a child
• A child would interfere with their life
• They didn’t want to be a single parent
  

Those are all for conveniency. 

Why do you think women get abortions? Source?

[basballguy]

(05-05-2022, 02:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Buddy, I have looked at these issues more than probably anyone on these boards. I understand the tradeoffs. I have seen the analyses run. For instance, I know that for a single-payer healthcare system we would need to see a tax increase. However, when you take into account that you would no longer be paying the premiums to private insurance companies the majority of Americans would actually see a reduction in their out-of-pocket costs on a yearly basis. Some countries do have year long school, but their school days may be shorter or they may have programs that start at different points in the year.

I literally study policy. I've looked at these things a number of times. They are by no means my specialty so I can't speak on them like some others but I have read the works of the experts and seen the data while in classes on education policy and healthcare policy. I read white papers for fun. We are constantly coming up with ways to improve our systems in this country and there are many feasible ways to do it.

All i can think of after reading this:

[KillerGoose]

(05-05-2022, 05:27 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I can't find the original source that I saw it on but here's a survey from a pregnancy care clinic:


Those are all for conveniency. 

Why do you think women get abortions? Source?

Maybe it’s just me, but that link doesn’t connect to a survey. It connects to a “Get Help Quickly” page.

[BigPapaKain]

(05-05-2022, 05:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I was using the universal YOU but if you are someone who has never had to stress out or even care about money I'll gladly put you in the category of the self-actualized.

The fact that you responded about me sticking a money wrench in my theory made me think you were opening the door to an informal back and forth, but my apologies if I hit you in the proverbial nuts with this.  I will say that I'm someone who has also turned down better pay for a job that doesn't give me ulcers, so maybe we can both just agree that we're above the obsessed masses on this one.  Fair play?

It's all good brotha. There's a lot of contention that goes through here and it's hard to read folks sometimes. I apologize if I came off as confrontational.

[CJD]

(05-05-2022, 05:27 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I can't find the original source that I saw it on but here's a survey from a pregnancy care clinic:


Those are all for conveniency. 

Why do you think women get abortions? Source?

Not having money is awfully inconvenient.

A real bummer, for sure.

[BigPapaKain]

(05-05-2022, 05:27 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I can't find the original source that I saw it on but here's a survey from a pregnancy care clinic:


Those are all for conveniency. 

Why do you think women get abortions? Source?

Lacking funds is a legitimate reason; we have enough kids going hungry. Unless you're all for more welfare?

The 2nd one - meh. None of your business anyways, but I get how that one could piss folks off.

3rd one - being a single parent is hard and we can go ahead a circle back to more welfare recipients.

If the GoP really gave a shit about abortion, they'd push so that women had prenatal care for free, post natal care for free, plenty of paid time off for mother and child, plenty of food for mother and child, and free day care for child so mom can go be a good cog in the machine. But since they're not pushing any of that and instead are pushing to make women 2nd class citizens who cannot legally have full control over their entire body, they really don't have a leg to stand on except some faux moral one.

And we haven't even gotten into the fact that abortions are religious rights to some actual recognized religions out there.

[BFritz21]

(05-05-2022, 05:40 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Maybe it’s just me, but that link doesn’t connect to a survey. It connects to a “Get Help Quickly” page.

My mistake. It was a different page on that site.

I was in a rush when I posted it and had been reading another page on the site.

[treee]

(05-05-2022, 05:27 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I can't find the original source that I saw it on but here's a survey from a pregnancy care clinic:


Those are all for conveniency. 

Why do you think women get abortions? Source?

Lacking money is not an "inconvenience" it is quite literally what determines survival in a society like ours. Seeing what poverty on an individual level looks like is definitely a large contributor to my belief in abortion access. 

Also, of course, it is also a question of individual liberty. One thing I hope people who are anti abortion consider is, what makes us human? I think the key for the abortion conversation lies in our understanding of how the brain works. I think this because we will eventually be able to point to quantifiable metrics of when a brain can start to function in certain ways.

And most importantly, the physical act of childbearing is solely on the mother. They are the person with the most at stake. The person who has already carved a life out in this world should have more of a say than a person who doesn't even exist yet. 

Abortion is an imperfect solution for an imperfect world. The fact that anti abortion absolutism is still so mainstream is really disheartening. 

[BigPapaKain]

(05-05-2022, 05:55 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: My mistake. It was a different page on that site.

I was in a rush when I posted it and had been reading another page on the site.

Yeah those pre-selected choices paint an awful picture. But then you actually read the article and find the top 3 reasons given to people at PP are

FEAR they'll be abandoned by their partners
FEAR their parent's reactions to them having sex
FEAR of the future

Maybe we shouldn't stigmatize women who are already scared?

[Belsnickel]

(05-05-2022, 04:01 PM)basballguy Wrote: I would be interested in seeing that study as it sounds incredibly biased.  Many of our government programs are literally determined by one's tax liability (income) so if you eliminate that variation then of course it would be disproportionate.  

How would it be biased? It's looking at each country as a whole, not anything based on income. And it isn't even just about social programs but about all services.

[Belsnickel]

(05-05-2022, 05:35 PM)basballguy Wrote: All i can think of after reading this:

Good thing I am not claiming to be king. Just pointing out my background because it is relevant. I even point out I am not an expert on these specific topics, I have just read their works and understood them.

[BFritz21]

(05-05-2022, 07:03 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Yeah those pre-selected choices paint an awful picture. But then you actually read the article and find the top 3 reasons given to people at PP are

FEAR they'll be abandoned by their partners
FEAR their parent's reactions to them having sex
FEAR of the future

Maybe we shouldn't stigmatize women who are already scared?

I did read that.

So how do any of those justify abortion?

#1 Pick a better partner if you're going to do things that involve a risk like getting pregnant. 

#2 Be more careful if you're going to do things you think your parents will react in an unfavorable way when they hear it.

#3 Join the club. That's life. Make better choices.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-05-2022, 07:31 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Good thing I am not claiming to be king. Just pointing out my background because it is relevant. I even point out I am not an expert on these specific topics, I have just read their works and understood them.

I didn't get that impression, if nothing else, you're just pointing out that you are well read on the subject matter.

Now where's those links to keep me busy for a while

[Belsnickel]

(05-05-2022, 07:52 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I didn't get that impression, if nothing else, you're just pointing out that you are well read on the subject matter.

Now where's those links to keep me busy for a while

Not links, papers I had downloaded somewhere and I am looking for them. When I find titles I will see what I can find that isn't behind paywalls. Problem I am having is that I have a new work laptop and a new personal laptop, so I am just hoping I saved them somewhere in cloud or network drive storage.

[basballguy]

(05-05-2022, 07:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: How would it be biased? It's looking at each country as a whole, not anything based on income. And it isn't even just about social programs but about all services.

I just said it sounds biased with the approach....you've read the study i haven't so I don't know.  :)  

(05-05-2022, 07:31 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Good thing I am not claiming to be king. Just pointing out my background because it is relevant. I even point out I am not an expert on these specific topics, I have just read their works and understood them.

I was just having a little fun. :)  I recognize you invest quite a bit more time than me in learning about these things.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-05-2022, 07:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: How would it be biased? It's looking at each country as a whole, not anything based on income. And it isn't even just about social programs but about all services.

I wouldn't mind seeing some of those as well. 


LOL as though you don't have enough to do already