Obama is the Next FDR

[StLucieBengal]

The next FDR?

Repeated failed policies, putting japs in concentration camps, allowing an agent for Stalin provoke us into WW2.

Obama was a worthless presidency,... But Reid did him no favors by never voting.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-08-2015, 10:08 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The next FDR?  

Repeated failed policies, putting japs in concentration camps, allowing an agent for Stalin provoke us into WW2.  

Obama was a worthless presidency,... But Reid did him no favors by never voting.

I love to hear you expand a bit on that one.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-08-2015, 12:44 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I love to hear you expand a bit on that one.

Sure thing.

Operation Snow. Harry Dexter White

http://nation.time.com/2012/12/07/pearl-harbor-2-0/

Video on it... http://youtu.be/FouuKUhxqdc

Here is a book on the subject. Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR's White House Triggered Pearl Harbor https://www.amazon.com/dp/1596983221/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_SZCDvb1M2QVFY

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-08-2015, 02:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Sure thing.  

Operation Snow.   Harry Dexter White

http://nation.time.com/2012/12/07/pearl-harbor-2-0/

Video on it... http://youtu.be/FouuKUhxqdc

Here is a book on the subject.  Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR's White House Triggered Pearl Harbor https://www.amazon.com/dp/1596983221/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_SZCDvb1M2QVFY

It's complex to be sure, there is a lot more to the story than just one Soviet spy having an influence on things.  Which I'm not disputing, just way more complex.  Between Hitler and Japan we were entering that war one way or another, the only question was when and where.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-08-2015, 02:45 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: It's complex to be sure, there is a lot more to the story than just one Soviet spy having an influence on things.  Which I'm not disputing, just way more complex.  Between Hitler and Japan we were entering that war one way or another, the only question was when and where.

FDR stopped trading with Japan to appease China. Which forced Japan to attempt a deal with Germany.

Had we stayed out of Asia... Japan would have taken most of China, and probably the russian east coast. And Asia today would not be communist.... But capitalist... And we would not have had, Korea, Vietnam either.

Had we stayed just selling To everyone the world would be a better place. maybe we get into Europe late.... But we don't have Pearl Harbour...

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-08-2015, 05:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: FDR stopped trading with Japan to appease China.   Which forced Japan to attempt a deal with Germany.  

Had we stayed out of Asia...  Japan would have taken most of China, and probably the russian east coast.   And Asia today would not be communist.... But capitalist... And we would not have had, Korea, Vietnam either.  

Had we stayed just selling To everyone the world would be a better place.   maybe we get into Europe late.... But we don't have Pearl Harbour...

There is so much wrong with your "what if" theory's of history, it's difficult to know where to even begin.  Just like everything else in history, we have more info now more often than at the time the decisions were being made.  These are some pretty big grandiose hypotheticals.  First of all communism was far from defeated, second Imperial Japan would not have been a capitalists system.  And your speculation regarding Korea or Vietnam, is just that, speculation.  And regardless of whether we went to war with Hitler first, we would have gone to war with Japan as soon as we did.

And we might have prevented Pearl Harbor, but we would've gone to war regardless. And who's to say Pearl Harbor doesn't just happen at a different time.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-08-2015, 06:54 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: There is so much wrong with your "what if" theory's of history, it's difficult to know where to even begin.  Just like everything else in history, we have more info now more often than at the time the decisions were being made.  These are some pretty big grandiose hypotheticals.  First of all communism was far from defeated, second Imperial Japan would not have been a capitalists system.  And your speculation regarding Korea or Vietnam, is just that, speculation.  And regardless of whether we went to war with Hitler first, we would have gone to war with Japan as soon as we did.

And we might have prevented Pearl Harbor, but we would've gone to war regardless.  And who's to say Pearl Harbor doesn't just happen at a different time.

What would have put us at war with Japan? We were trading with them.... FDR tried to contain japan by trade .... who was by far the strongest power in Asia at the time .... He should have let Japan grow since we had let them do this for years .... FDR just decided to protect China... Even though China didn't have the strength nor the will to defeat Japan.

As far as my Korea and Vietnam speculation. ... Yes we will never know.. But Japan wasn't communist.... They were imperialist and were capitalists ... But the Korean and Vietnam conflicts were about the growth of communism. Japan wasn't communist and would have patrolled the area and kept communists out. Negating our participation.

Now looking at asia it's almost all communist. And we knew what happened after ww2 and we tried to build japan back economically after the fact.

You may disagree but the dots are reasonably connected.

This is why i rail in Wilson and FDR .... They allowed monsters come to power and a lot of people died for their careless mistakes of trying to include us in the worlds wars.

I realize they did what they thought was right... But looking back how anyone can call them good presidents is beyond me. the only reason they can be considered good is if you are for moving. To a collectivist mindset and weakening our financial position as a nation.

[StLucieBengal]

One other thing about operation snow and FDR.

If we don't stop trading with Japan... And let them do their thing they start a war with russia and Stalin has to choose between a two front war. He did operation snow because he knew russia could go into civil war again and communism could have been lost there.... That's why he did operation snow. He knew that's how Lenin came to power.... When wilson forced russia to stay in ww1 as a condition of the loan we gave russia. Which put them in a two front war with the Bolsheviks and Germany.

[Interceptor]

(06-06-2015, 12:59 PM)Steeler Eater Wrote: "According to Jason Furman, 'History is going to say he saved us from a second Great Depression.'"

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/06/history-is-going-to-say-he-saved-us-from-a-second-great-depression-000073?cmpid=sf

Thoughts?

Yeah, if FDR stands for freaking dumb ******.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-08-2015, 07:49 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You may disagree but the dots are reasonably connected.  

This is why i rail in Wilson and FDR .... They allowed monsters come to power and a lot of people died for their careless mistakes of trying to include us in the worlds wars.  

I was going to really try to debate point by point and then I realized how pointless that would be after reading this above comment.  Trust me I know you believe that progressives are everything wrong with this country and therefore both FDR, and Wilson caused everything wrong with this country.  However in one sentence you just blamed two US presidents for the US's involvement in both world wars.  As if no other factors could've played into any of it. 

There are a lot of different ways those dot's can be connected, but it's certainly not nearly as simple as you believe they should be connected.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

http://www.japanfocus.org/-Richard_J_-Smethurst/3825/article.html


Lucie here is a more accurate look at how things lead up to WWI and WWII regarding Japan, China, Korea, and most of Asia.  But if we're going to play connect the dots, you may want to look as far back as 1853.  Yes it's long but history usually is. 

[Bengals23]

(06-08-2015, 08:11 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Yeah, if FDR stands for freaking dumb ******.

You're so clever. Great input.

[Bengalzona]

(06-08-2015, 05:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Had we stayed out of Asia...  Japan would have taken most of China, and probably the russian east coast. 

I suggest you brush up on your reading:

http://thediplomat.com/2012/08/the-forgotten-soviet-japanese-war-of-1939/

The Japanese and Soviets fought in 1939. The Soviets, led by Georgy Zhukov, whipped the Japanese so badly at the Battle of Khalkhin Gol that the Japanese did not dare threaten Soviet territory during the rest of the war. This was where Zhukov made his early name.

[Bengalzona]

(06-08-2015, 07:49 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This is why i rail in Bush and Cheney .... They allowed monsters come to power and a lot of people died for their careless mistakes of trying to include us in the worlds wars.  

I realize they did what they thought was right... But looking back how anyone can call them good presidents is beyond me.   the only reason they can be considered good is if you are for moving. To a collectivist mindset and weakening our financial position as a nation.

Fixed it for you.

[BoomerFan]

(06-06-2015, 05:58 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Obama may have signed some of it, may have had input of varying degrees, but the heavy lifting was largely done by the Bush administration and Bernanke.

 
Can you explain exactly what "heavy lifting" was done before it became law? 

[JustWinBaby]

(06-09-2015, 06:04 AM)BoomerFan Wrote:  
Can you explain exactly what "heavy lifting" was done before it became law? 

Can you be more specific, since I already posted a detailed article that explains most of it wasn't even signed by Obama, but by Bush.

Obama can't come up with a plan for ISIS after nearly a year, but he throws together a massive auto bailout just weeks after taking office.  Ummkay.

[Ben Richards]

(06-09-2015, 08:30 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Can you be more specific, since I already posted a detailed article that explains most of it wasn't even signed by Obama, but by Bush.

Obama can't come up with a plan for ISIS after nearly a year, but he throws together a massive auto bailout just weeks after taking office.  Ummkay.

What would your plan for ISIL be?  "Nuke em, boys!"  Derp!

[Beaker]

(06-08-2015, 05:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: FDR stopped trading with Japan to appease China.   Which forced Japan to attempt a deal with Germany.  

Japan had decided to align itself with the axis powers as far back as the end of WWI when they were our allies and were snubbed at the Treaty of Versailles. It was a huge dishonor to them and was instrumental in setting them on a course of never having to be beholding to another country. Their aggression in the pacific was due mainly to acquiring resources such as rubber and oil that they did not have access to as a small island nation. Japan had already begun this policy years before the US stopped trading with them.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-09-2015, 09:53 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: What would your plan for ISIL be?  "Nuke em, boys!"  Derp!

WTF?!....How does this in anyway address his posts?

[Ben Richards]

(06-09-2015, 12:37 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: WTF?!....How does this in anyway address his posts?

Thanks Obama.