The Mueller Report thread

[Belsnickel]

(03-26-2019, 08:48 AM)michaelsean Wrote: It's a TV show.  Billions.  I figured someone would recognize it.  But no if I made a joke and nobody got it, I would never bring it back.  This is more of just a recognition thing, and I'm just surprised nobody hear watches it.

I've never even heard of it.

[GMDino]

(03-26-2019, 03:41 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: What’s going to be hilarious is when they release the full report and it backfires on the left.  Just like when they pushed for a whole new FBI investigation into Kavenaugh and yet again strengthened Kavenaugh’s case that Kavenaugh did no wrong.

I see that as a problem for the right.  When someones says "Hey, we have new evidence and need to look into it" the right jumps up and down that its all "partisan".  When the right wants new investigations because...new investigations its about "the rule of law".

This report did not exonerate the POTUS on the obstruction charge.  We do not know why Mueller did not side either way.  So there is no harm is seeing what he saw and getting his answer on why he left it up to his boss.  

I trust that if the GOP had held the house there would already by hearings on OBama's part in colluding with the Russians.  

[GMDino]

(03-25-2019, 08:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If one can put personal opinion of Trump aside; they may see Graham raises some good questions about the investigation. Hell he was Barr to testify. I thought that's what the Dems wanted. 

But no Mueller's.

He wants cliff notes from the guy who said (before he was hired) that he would do what he did.

Why not get it straight from the horse's mouth?

But one would have to put their personal opinion of Graham aside to see that.

[GMDino]

In other news related to the investigation:

https://www.scotusblog.com/2019/03/justices-turn-down-mystery-corporation-in-grand-jury-dispute/#more-284141

Quote:Justices turn down mystery corporation in grand-jury dispute

Yesterday Attorney General William Barr sent a summary of the report by Special Counsel Robert Mueller to Congress. Today, the Supreme Court released orders from the justices’ private conference last week and turned down a petition that asked the justices to review a ruling by a lower court holding an unnamed foreign corporation in contempt for failing to provide information requested by a subpoena related to the Mueller investigation.

The corporation, which is owned by an unidentified foreign country, had argued that it did not need to provide the information sought by the subpoena because it is immune from lawsuits under the federal Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act and because doing so would cause it to violate the laws of its own country. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit rejected those arguments in December, prompting the corporation to go to the Supreme Court.

Chief Justice John Roberts put the lower court’s order requiring the corporation to provide the information or pay penalties on hold temporarily, but in January the full court allowed the order to go into effect, which meant that penalties of $50,000 per day would continue to accrue while the corporation appealed. The federal government urged the Supreme Court to stay out of the dispute, and today the justices did exactly that.

[*bfine32*]

(03-26-2019, 08:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: But no Mueller's.

He wants cliff notes from the guy who said (before he was hired) that he would do what he did.

Why not get it straight from the horse's mouth?

But one would have to put their personal opinion of Graham aside to see that.

I suppose you glossed over the part that said the Dems also wanted to question Barr. Any comments on the questions Graham asked or are you content with bringing comments from other threads into this one? 

[GMDino]

(03-26-2019, 09:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose you glossed over the part that said the Dems also wanted to question Barr.

And Mueller. Vive la difference!

(03-26-2019, 09:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Any comments on the questions Graham asked or are you content with bringing comments from other threads into this one? 

I didn't bring anything in.  I merely reflected the fact that one could have personal opinions about Graham that would shade their view of what he is talking about the same as you saying people could have personal opinions about Trump that do the same.

However the "questions" Graham has seem to fall under the category of "why did they do this to Trump". 

[Belsnickel]

(03-26-2019, 10:20 AM)GMDino Wrote: However the "questions" Graham has seem to fall under the category of "why did they do this to Trump". 

"They" being career bureaucrat Republicans, it should be noted.

[Bengalzona]

What? Is Lindsey wanting to hold an investigation now to find out why the Russians wanted to interfere in our elections? After all, Russian interference into our election was the basis for the Mueller investigation. Investigation into possible collusion by the current admin was a side item.

If not, then his proposed investigation is merely a 'witch hunt', the type Republicans have been accusing others of doing. But that should be no surprise: Republicans always actually do the things they accuse others of doing.

[GMDino]

(03-26-2019, 10:27 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: "They" being career bureaucrat Republicans, it should be noted.

Well that's the been the case the entire time.  

As is his MO DJT played the "it's fixed, it's rigged, "they" are all out to get me" card until it turned out in his favor.

The boy who cried wolf.  Except a bunch of cult members are still looking for the wolf.

[*bfine32*]

(03-26-2019, 10:30 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well that's the been the case the entire time.  

As is his MO DJT played the "it's fixed, it's rigged, "they" are all out to get me" card until it turned out in his favor.

The boy who cried wolf.  Except a bunch of cult members are still looking for the wolf.

Given the released results of the probe, your last line is absolutely hilarious. 

[jj22]

The issue with Trump and his administration is we would be fools to believe him. If he had never said "no collusion" until after this report then maybe it would be believed. But it sounds like someone took all of Trumps talking points (Barr) and released them like they were Mueller's. Mueller won't come out and say they are lying. That's not how this thing works. It takes the trust in the Administration to give the synopsis.

However if he and his family was exonerated by the report, it would have been released to the public, and Republicans in Congress wouldn't still be blocking it.

Common sense tells you something is up. Until it's released you just can't believe a word he or Barr says.

Good news for Mueller is he seems to be back in good graces with Trump supporters. Funny how he's suddenly a legit and unbiased investigator that should be taken at his word now. That was quick.

He always was tho. No matter what the report says. You want to see biased.....read the report released by the special counsel on Bill Clinton that started with the opening line "We recommend the impeachment of....." all for an affair on his wife.

Republicans know how to play the game.

Dems trust the process.

[Dill]

(03-26-2019, 08:43 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I was listening to NPR this morning and heard Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick talking about this and Graham's asinine new call for a Special Counsel into Obama and Nadler's continuing asshattery. He said what a lot of us have talked about. Polish off the edges of the report. Look at it, get Barr and/or Mueller up on the Hill, and then call it a day. The partisan investigations (which Mueller's was not, it was invoked by a Republican, it was run by a Republican, and it was focusing on a Republican administration) should not go forward. They aren't good for the country.

A DEEP STATE Republican!

Comin' back atcha now librals!  Trump's goin' FULL ANIMAL on you and Your treason will not go unpunished!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/us/politics/republicans-mueller-revenge.html?rref=collection%2Fnewseventcollection%2Frussian-election-hacking

WASHINGTON — President Trump and his Republican allies went on the offensive on Monday, vowing to pursue and even punish those responsible for the Russia investigation now that the special counsel has wrapped up without implicating him or his campaign in a criminal conspiracy to influence the 2016 election.

Mr. Trump, grim faced and simmering with anger, denounced adversaries who have pounded him for two years over Russian election interference, calling them “treasonous” people who are guilty of “evil” deeds and should be investigated themselves. “Those people will certainly be looked at,” he said.

On Capitol Hill, the Republican chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee announced he would do just that while also calling for a new special counsel to look at the origins of the last one. White House officials and Republican lawmakers demanded the resignation of a Democratic committee chairman investigating the Russia matter, and Mr. Trump’s re-election campaign lobbied television networks to blackball Democrats who advanced the collusion theory.

The assertive posture indicated that despite initial calls by Republican leaders to move on after the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, the president and his supporters were intent on turning the tables on his foes. While Democrats saw the actions as revenge, Mr. Trump’s defenders said they wanted accountability for a “witch hunt” that has consumed half of his term.

“There are a lot of people out there that have done some very, very evil things, very bad things, I would say some treasonous things against our country,” Mr. Trump told reporters at the White House. “I’ve been looking at them for a long time,” he added, “and I’m saying why haven’t they been looked at? They lied to Congress, many of them, you know who they are. They’ve done so many evil things.”

The approach, if it lasts, contrasts with those of other presidents who survived major scandals. After the Iran-contra affair, President Ronald Reagan happily dropped the subject and focused on arms control talks with the Soviet Union and other issues. After being acquitted at his Senate impeachment trial, President Bill Clinton was just as eager to move on to Social Security and other initiatives.

Republicans faced their own choice. After two years shadowed by Mr. Mueller, Mr. Trump has the opportunity to reset his presidency, but as he strode with new confidence into a post-Mueller world, he appeared more intent on payback.

Stephen K. Bannon, his former chief strategist, predicted that Mr. Trump “is going to go full animal” now that Mr. Mueller has wrapped up. The president, Mr. Bannon told Yahoo News, will “come off the chains” and use the findings to “bludgeon” his opposition.

Others close to the White House urged the president not to do that but instead focus on his own agenda. “The president has a unique historical opportunity, while in his re-election cycle, to reconnect to millions of Americans who have assumed he was guilty of serious wrongdoing, due to the unrelenting irresponsible media coverage of fake collusion,” said Matt Schlapp, the chairman of the American Conservative Union.

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, who golfed with Mr. Trump in Florida last weekend, agreed. “My advice to the president, for whatever it’s worth, is that you are probably stronger today than you have been at any time in your presidency,” he said, adding, “And if I were you, Mr. President, I would focus on what’s next for the country.”

[jj22]

I found this interesting concerning Graham...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sen-lindsey-graham-says-he-told-john-mccain-to-give-trump-russia-dossier-to-fbi/2019/03/25/f35e28ca-4f26-11e9-a3f7-78b7525a8d5f_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6fc27cd0bae1

Only because Trump supporters keep trying to say the dossier was something the Dems cooked up, when we know it the rest of us knew it was the Republicans all along, until after the primary when they gave it to Hillary's camp. But by then it had already hit the fan and was mostly paid for.

[Goalpost]

(03-26-2019, 10:48 AM)jj22 Wrote: The issue with Trump and his administration is we would be fools to believe him. If he had never said "no collusion" until  after this report then maybe it would be believed. But it sounds like someone took all of Trumps talking points (Barr) and released them like they were Mueller's. Mueller won't come out and say they are lying. That's not how this thing works. It takes the trust in the Administration to give the synopsis.

However if he and his family was exonerated by the report, it would have been released to the public, and Republicans in Congress wouldn't still be blocking it.

Common sense tells you something is up. Until it's released you just can't believe a word he or Barr says.

Good news for Mueller is he seems to be back in good graces with Trump supporters. Funny how he's suddenly a legit and unbiased investigator that should be taken at his word now. That was quick.

He always was tho. No matter what the report says. You want to see biased.....read the report released by the special counsel on Bill Clinton that started with the opening line "We recommend the impeachment of....." all for an affair on his wife.

Republicans know how to play the game.

Dems trust the process.

One would think Mueller would be out talking if he thought Barr's summary was wrong.

[Belsnickel]

(03-26-2019, 10:58 AM)Dill Wrote: A DEEP STATE Republican.

Comin' back atcha now librals!  Trump's goin' FULL ANIMAL on you and Your treason will not go unpunished!

I'm going to be serious, here. While the idea that Trump's campaign colluded with Russia during 2016 was one that was concerning, and I'm happy it wasn't true because it would've been a dire thing if true, the reaction we are seeing, and have been seeing, to the investigation is more concerning to me. The way these discussions are occurring about using the DoJ as a partisan tool is far more concerning to me than Russia's interference in our election, with or without help from Trump's campaign. I expect the investigations in the legislature to be partisan, that's the nature of the beast, but what we're seeing is a part of the formula for tyranny.

I sincerely hope that Barr is the type of person I think he is and will protect the independence of the DoJ. I don't have quite the negative view of him a lot of people on my side of the aisle do. This is going to test our institutions in a way they have yet to be tested.

[jj22]

(03-26-2019, 11:06 AM)Goalpost Wrote: One would think Mueller would be out talking if he thought Barr's summary was wrong.

That's not how Mueller works. He rarely spoke on the investigation to say what reports were true or false while it was going on. He never came out and challenged anything the Kraft's, Brady and Patriots fans said either when they attacked him for his investigation report. There's a certain level of trust in the system (Government) that Trump is certainly challenging, but most still treat the entity how it was intended on being treated. And that means there is trust that his findings will make it's way to Congress at least, and while the American people may never know the truth, the "government" will.

Only thing we need to know is if the report exonerated Trump and his family, he would have had it released for the world to see. Republicans wouldn't still be blocking it as of yesterday. After they spent all day Sunday claiming it exonerated Trump and slamming the media and demanding apologies.

NO WAY it would be hidden from public, and it's public release be voted against by these same people celebrating it's exoneration of Trump. It's just not realistic. No matter the party.

If any of us was exonerated, we'd want the world to know.

Trump hasn't built up the trust (being truthful) for us to just believe him, as they want us to do.

It hurts Trump to not release the report. This will end up going down as one of the biggest conspiracy theories in our lifetime. And that can't be what he wants if he was truly exonerated.

[Dill]

(03-26-2019, 11:05 AM)jj22 Wrote: I found this interesting concerning Graham...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sen-lindsey-graham-says-he-told-john-mccain-to-give-trump-russia-dossier-to-fbi/2019/03/25/f35e28ca-4f26-11e9-a3f7-78b7525a8d5f_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6fc27cd0bae1

Only because Trump supporters keep trying to say the dossier was something the Dems cooked up, when we know it the rest of us knew it was the Republicans all along, until after the primary when they gave it to Hillary's camp.

WaPo wants me to subscribe or I can't see that article. Let's conspire to cheat these capitalist pigs.

Post a relevant paragraph or two.

[Belsnickel]

(03-26-2019, 11:06 AM)Goalpost Wrote: One would think Mueller would be out talking if he thought Barr's summary was wrong.

No he wouldn't. That's not in Mueller's nature. He did his job. He follows policy. It is up to the AG to provide information on the report to others per DoJ guidelines and not the role of the Special Counsel.

[GMDino]

(03-26-2019, 11:07 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm going to be serious, here. While the idea that Trump's campaign colluded with Russia during 2016 was one that was concerning, and I'm happy it wasn't true because it would've been a dire thing if true, the reaction we are seeing, and have been seeing, to the investigation is more concerning to me. The way these discussions are occurring about using the DoJ as a partisan tool is far more concerning to me than Russia's interference in our election, with or without help from Trump's campaign. I expect the investigations in the legislature to be partisan, that's the nature of the beast, but what we're seeing is a part of the formula for tyranny.

I sincerely hope that Barr is the type of person I think he is and will protect the independence of the DoJ. I don't have quite the negative view of him a lot of people on my side of the aisle do. This is going to test our institutions in a way they have yet to be tested.

I don't know a lot about him, but it seems he is a *bit* partisan himself.  

[Dill]

(03-26-2019, 11:07 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm going to be serious, here. While the idea that Trump's campaign colluded with Russia during 2016 was one that was concerning, and I'm happy it wasn't true because it would've been a dire thing if true, the reaction we are seeing, and have been seeing, to the investigation is more concerning to me. The way these discussions are occurring about using the DoJ as a partisan tool is far more concerning to me than Russia's interference in our election, with or without help from Trump's campaign. I expect the investigations in the legislature to be partisan, that's the nature of the beast, but what we're seeing is a part of the formula for tyranny.

I sincerely hope that Barr is the type of person I think he is and will protect the independence of the DoJ. I don't have quite the negative view of him a lot of people on my side of the aisle do. This is going to test our institutions in a way they have yet to be tested.

Barr was not selected to be the type of person you think he is. But we'll see.

Totally agree with your 1st paragraph.

It's like the Fox machine is actually trying to run Congress full on Benghazi, even when Republicans don't control the House.