Article - Says AD not main issue

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-26-2019, 01:13 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d say Russell Wilson.

You also can’t really discount what Jackson has done with Baltimore. No way in hell they’re a legit Super Bowl contender with Joe Flacco at QB.

Not saying they’re on bad teams, but their QB’s are the main reason they’re as good as they are.

Truth....but then Harbaugh and the Ravens were smart enough to bring an OC that runs an offense that caters to Jackson's strengths. What a novel concept!

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-26-2019, 12:04 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Truth....but then Harbaugh and the Ravens were smart enough to bring an OC that runs an offense that caters to Jackson's strengths. What a novel concept!

Hey, say what you want about your boy Marv, but he picked some decent coordinators over the years.

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2019, 12:34 AM)jason Wrote: How do the Rams tie into all of this again?

(12-26-2019, 01:07 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, I didn’t get that either...

Because the HC that folks are quickly turning against came from there. He was involved in the passing game there for 2 years. In each of those 2 years Goff posted passer ratings of over 100. So perhaps there's another reason besides the HC as to why Andy sucked this year.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-26-2019, 12:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hey, say what you want about your boy Marv, but he picked some decent coordinators over the years.

I'll agree to that, absolutely. The only problem there, is that one of them should have probably replaced him before it got so stale. Then he promoted Ken Zampese....hired Austin. For a while there, he assembled some pretty good staffs.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-26-2019, 12:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hey, say what you want about your boy Marv, but he picked some decent coordinators over the years.

Another point here, from what was reported, Jay Gruden was the one who wanted Dalton. So it stands to reason that he would succeed under Jay. Hue came along and tweaked the system with a lot of window dressing, and 14 got even better. They also got some very good line play, with Bodine being the only weakness, and he was at least serviceable. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-26-2019, 12:12 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I'll agree to that, absolutely. The only problem there, is that one of them should have probably replaced him before it got so stale. Then he promoted Ken Zampese....hired Austin. For a while there, he assembled some pretty good staffs.

I feel like Zampese was probably forced on him by the old man. He was a a Bengals lifer like Alexander.

But yeah, Austin was a terrible hire. To Marvin’s credit he fired him mid-season.

[grampahol]

The bengals do a rebuild from the top down all too often. Imagine building a sky scraper and the very first piece put in place is the antenna on the very top of the building..maybe the flag and pump some wind at it.. That's the bengals way.. God forbid they ever build anything with a sound foundation... 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-26-2019, 12:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I feel like Zampese was probably forced on him by the old man. He was a a Bengals lifer like Alexander.

But yeah, Austin was a terrible hire. To Marvin’s credit he fired him mid-season.

That Zampese deal did reek of Son of Paul....and it took Bill Lazor, of all people, to get Alexander canned. Gotta hand it to Marv though, he canned Zampese and Austin midseason.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-26-2019, 12:35 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: That Zampese deal did reek of Son of Paul....and it took Bill Lazor, of all people, to get Alexander canned. Gotta hand it to Marv though, he canned Zampese and Austin midseason.

Marvin Lewis is looking better with each passing loss. I don’t want him back but maybe he wasn’t the scapegoat after all. I’m going to say something you might find controversial but I think hiring Hue Jackson would have been better than hiring Zac Taylor. No, I don’t want Hue Jackson back here either but I think either Zac hoodwinked the Front Office during the interview process or the Front Office just whiffed completely.

[grampahol]

(12-26-2019, 12:40 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Marvin Lewis is looking better with each passing loss.  I don’t want him back but maybe he wasn’t the scapegoat after all.  I’m going to say something you might find controversial but I think hiring Hue Jackson would have been better than hiring Zac Taylor.  No, I don’t want Hue Jackson back here either but I think either Zac hoodwinked the Front Office during the interview process or the Front Office just whiffed completely.

What the zampese promotion means to the layman is Alex Van Pelt will replace Zac.. 

[Catmandude123]

(12-26-2019, 12:29 PM)grampahol Wrote: The bengals do a rebuild from the top down all too often. Imagine building a sky scraper and the very first piece put in place is the antenna on the very top of the building..maybe the flag and pump some wind at it.. That's the bengals way.. God forbid they ever build anything with a sound foundation... 

I hate to break it to you but QBs ARE the foundation of teams. There are exceptions but few and far between. When you have the chance to take a QB with so much upside you have to take the risk. With Dalton and Green gone you spend their salaries and the rest of the draft to improve the rest of the roster. If you continually over pay aging players it puts you in a catch 22 situation. When you value your love for a player over their output then you are going to be disappointed in the long run. New England wins because they are good at weighing the pros and cons of resigning their own FAs over signing other teams FAs.

[Luvnit2]

(12-26-2019, 09:47 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. Our strength on offense should be our running game considering we have one of the best RB’s in the league. And on the other side of the ball our DL. Both came alive down the stretch, but between Taylor’s horrendous play calling and Dalton’s poor QB play we still only managed one win.

The article contents were the point of the thread. It points out team has major issues other than the QB. I have said time to move on, but my point and point of this thread is we better lower our Joe Burrow expectations if we don't fix the OL and the defense and add better coaching from ZT.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-26-2019, 12:40 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Marvin Lewis is looking better with each passing loss.  I don’t want him back but maybe he wasn’t the scapegoat after all.  I’m going to say something you might find controversial but I think hiring Hue Jackson would have been better than hiring Zac Taylor.  No, I don’t want Hue Jackson back here either but I think either Zac hoodwinked the Front Office during the interview process or the Front Office just whiffed completely.

I think Hue got a raw deal in Cleveland myself, and with the benefit of hindsight, he may have been the better choice. The backlash would have been real though...lol.

Marvin just couldn't get the team over the hump, for whatever reason.

[samhain]

(12-26-2019, 12:40 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Marvin Lewis is looking better with each passing loss.  I don’t want him back but maybe he wasn’t the scapegoat after all.  I’m going to say something you might find controversial but I think hiring Hue Jackson would have been better than hiring Zac Taylor.  No, I don’t want Hue Jackson back here either but I think either Zac hoodwinked the Front Office during the interview process or the Front Office just whiffed completely.

It's pure conjecture, but I heard Tim McGee on 700 last week saying that he fully believed a 2019 Bengals roster with Hue Jackson as the HC could have won 5-6 games easily.  I'm not so sure.  He did actually manage to win zero games once before, and that's hard to do.  

There's zero chance that the fanbase would have accepted Hue as Marvn's replacement last offseason.  The stadium would have been emptier than it already was at the home opener vs the 9ers.  The media, national and local would have thoroughly thrashed them incessantly through the entire process.  

Rumor was, that Mike Brown really wanted to hire Hue to replace Marvin but was discouraged by others among the inbreds that understood what a lead balloon he would have been.  We all talk about how little they care for fan sentiment, but I still think seeing the stadium empty is something they genuinely view as a problem to be solved.  It forced their hand with Marvin, and I believe it did the same with the potential hiring of Jackson.

All that said, I wouldn't be mad at all to see Hue back in some capacity.  He's proven capable of running an offense, moreso than Zac for sure.  Despite what Baker Mayfield might think, I wouldn't be upset to see him charged with handling the development of a franchise quarterback.  Zac, on the other hand scares the hell out of me.  Trusting him with Burrow is not something I'm overly excited about.

[Luvnit2]

(12-26-2019, 01:56 PM)samhain Wrote: It's pure conjecture, but I heard Tim McGee on 700 last week saying that he fully believed a 2019 Bengals roster with Hue Jackson as the HC could have won 5-6 games easily.  I'm not so sure.  He did actually manage to win zero games once before, and that's hard to do.  

There's zero chance that the fanbase would have accepted Hue as Marvn's replacement last offseason.  The stadium would have been emptier than it already was at the home opener vs the 9ers.  The media, national and local would have thoroughly thrashed them incessantly through the entire process.  

Rumor was, that Mike Brown really wanted to hire Hue to replace Marvin but was discouraged by others among the inbreds that understood what a lead balloon he would have been.  We all talk about how little they care for fan sentiment, but I still think seeing the stadium empty is something they genuinely view as a problem to be solved.  It forced their hand with Marvin, and I believe it did the same with the potential hiring of Jackson.

All that said, I wouldn't be mad at all to see Hue back in some capacity.  He's proven capable of running an offense, moreso than Zac for sure.  Despite what Baker Mayfield might think, I wouldn't be upset to see him charged with handling the development of a franchise quarterback.  Zac, on the other hand scares the hell out of me.  Trusting him with Burrow is not something I'm overly excited about.

All we heard from so called Bengals Board experts is fire ML as he is the issue in prior years.

Many of us said be careful what you wish for, the new guy could be worse.

Fast forward and the new guy so far is Dave Shula bad thus far making ML look like a HOF coach in comparison.

We heard fire him for press conferences and giggles and you name it. Have those learned yet hard to find great things (different) when you lose more games than you win.

I love our team and hope somehow or someway the FO figures out how to build a champion before I die, I am getting concerned as time is running out for me.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-26-2019, 01:56 PM)samhain Wrote: It's pure conjecture, but I heard Tim McGee on 700 last week saying that he fully believed a 2019 Bengals roster with Hue Jackson as the HC could have won 5-6 games easily.  I'm not so sure.  He did actually manage to win zero games once before, and that's hard to do.  

There's zero chance that the fanbase would have accepted Hue as Marvn's replacement last offseason.  The stadium would have been emptier than it already was at the home opener vs the 9ers.  The media, national and local would have thoroughly thrashed them incessantly through the entire process.  

Rumor was, that Mike Brown really wanted to hire Hue to replace Marvin but was discouraged by others among the inbreds that understood what a lead balloon he would have been.  We all talk about how little they care for fan sentiment, but I still think seeing the stadium empty is something they genuinely view as a problem to be solved.  It forced their hand with Marvin, and I believe it did the same with the potential hiring of Jackson.

All that said, I wouldn't be mad at all to see Hue back in some capacity.  He's proven capable of running an offense, moreso than Zac for sure.  Despite what Baker Mayfield might think, I wouldn't be upset to see him charged with handling the development of a franchise quarterback.  Zac, on the other hand scares the hell out of me.  Trusting him with Burrow is not something I'm overly excited about.

Great post — and allow me to throw a wrench into the works. What if Mike Brown isn’t going to take Joe Burrow? Mike loves the big arm quarterback and my gut says he’s looking at Oregon’s Justin Herbert instead. Your point is excellent: I don’t trust Zac Taylor to develop ANY quarterback the the Bengals will have. No matter who it is I’m afraid he’ll look like a bust.

[coachmcneil71]

(12-25-2019, 12:02 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: 15tds, 13 int’s. He may not be the problem, but not part of the solution either.

Completely agree, Harley! Ts, ZT has been in WAY over his head the entire time. If this franchise wants to win, both need to go.
Good luck to both, somewhere else.

[Murdock2420]

(12-25-2019, 08:58 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The article is correct. Andy Dalton is not the main issue. We aren't going to win a championship with him, but he's not a bad QB.


ZT has been awful. There's no way to sugar coat a 1 win season, first year HC or not. He needs to be gone and the team needs to make new plans cause their now old and stale New Dey plan fell flat on its face from game one and has never even gotten to its knees.

It's time to cut the losses or this team could enter a second lost decade.

 

Fun fact about this, the previous lost decade began after a 3 win season that led to the team drafting a college QB that set a bunch of college records.

He was the first QB taken in the 1992 draft after setting the record for most passing yards in a game and TDs in a season. 

Boomer was the starting QB and taking all the heat for the team's issues even though Mike had taken over for his Dad and Wyche was gone, Shula brought in. 

Boomer went onto the Pro Bowl the year after the Bengals dealt him and eventually even returned to play for the team again in the middle of the lost decade with how poorly the team was doing with a 2nd 1st round pick QB named Akili Smith.



Just an awful lot of coincidences here, and I really hope this team looks at the one year wonder kid in Burrow very very carefully before wasting a pick.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(12-26-2019, 11:59 AM)Wyche Wrote: I hope they do, it's absolutely necessary to turn this around.

Why is it absolutely necessary? Mikey went through an entire decade with teams like this one. He does not find much 'necessary' other than keeping expenses at a minimum. 

[Luvnit2]

(12-26-2019, 02:54 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Great post — and allow me to throw a wrench into the works.  What if Mike Brown isn’t going to take Joe Burrow?  Mike loves the big arm quarterback and my gut says he’s looking at Oregon’s Justin Herbert instead.  Your point is excellent: I don’t trust Zac Taylor to develop ANY quarterback the the Bengals will have.  No matter who it is I’m afraid he’ll look like a bust.

I get confused in here reading comments. A lot of posters (when we drafted well) like AJ Green and AD in same year said thank God MB is no longer controlling our drafts. Then we draft not well and some fans are saying MB is back in charge of the team and the draft.

Which is it? Is MB in charge or is he not? I would like to know ahead of time prior to the 2020 draft so either we give him crap or praise him for the 2020 draft.